Why do haste plateaus not exist?

[Invrlose]

My question is why do haste plateaus not exist like they did in cata?

For example lets say you have a 1.8 second cast time cobra shot, you are going to delay explosive shot by 0.4 seconds if you cast 3 cobras or you are going to have a large gap.

I'm just confused and would like someone to explain to me as I have come back from a long break. The last time I was raiding heroics was firelands... Aka the golden time when marks was ridiculously overpowered compared to survival single target. And I seem to remember being able to fit 5 shots in between my chimeras.

I don't like the hunter rotation as much now as I did in firelands. It was much simpler. Explosive shot cost more focus. I was at the 1.25s cast time haste plateau on cobra and could almost always fit 4 cobras in a row between an explosive without over capping and now 3 will usually over cap me from a low focus pool.

[Azortharion]

If you cast 3 cobras between Explosives you're doing it wrong. Unless your gear sucks in which case don't bother with this yet.

Also Haste is either top or second priority for hunters atm so unless your gear sucks (at which point who cares about plateaus anyway?) you won't have 1.8s Cobras.

Also Explosive Shot =/= Chimera Shot - Chimera shot had a longer cooldown, if you remember. And Marks wasn't that overpowered.

Haste breakpoints do exist, they're just so insignificant. (Except the extra Stampede hit for BM)

To answer your question: It's boring. As a hunter, at least. Sure, DoT breakpoints for balance/affli locks/other DoT classes it makes sense/there is some finesse to it, but needing X haste as a hunter is silly.

If you CRAVE haste plateaus, roll a DoT class. Or don't, I heard something about haste breakpoints being removed entirely for WoD.

[anjan011]

If you cast 3 cobras between Explosives you're doing it wrong. Unless your gear sucks in which case don't bother with this yet.

Also Haste is either top or second priority for hunters atm so unless your gear sucks (at which point who cares about plateaus anyway?) you won't have 1.8s Cobras.

Also Explosive Shot =/= Chimera Shot - Chimera shot had a longer cooldown, if you remember. And Marks wasn't that overpowered.

Haste breakpoints do exist, they're just so insignificant. (Except the extra Stampede hit for BM)

To answer your question: It's boring. As a hunter, at least. Sure, DoT breakpoints for balance/affli locks/other DoT classes it makes sense/there is some finesse to it, but needing X haste as a hunter is silly.

If you CRAVE haste plateaus, roll a DoT class. Or don't, I heard something about haste breakpoints being removed entirely for WoD.

I m glad there is no haste platue for hunters. my pet enjoys the attack speed gain. for me it sucks having a long cobra shot cast, i feel like falling asleep :P

[Invrlose]

If you cast 3 cobras between Explosives you're doing it wrong. Unless your gear sucks in which case don't bother with this yet.

Also Haste is either top or second priority for hunters atm so unless your gear sucks (at which point who cares about plateaus anyway?) you won't have 1.8s Cobras.

Also Explosive Shot =/= Chimera Shot - Chimera shot had a longer cooldown, if you remember. And Marks wasn't that overpowered.

Haste breakpoints do exist, they're just so insignificant. (Except the extra Stampede hit for BM)

To answer your question: It's boring. As a hunter, at least. Sure, DoT breakpoints for balance/affli locks/other DoT classes it makes sense/there is some finesse to it, but needing X haste as a hunter is silly.

If you CRAVE haste plateaus, roll a DoT class. Or don't, I heard something about haste breakpoints being removed entirely for WoD.

If you were able to neg people on these forums I would give this post a neg. You don't actually address my question you just go full potato.

In Cataclysm, haste plateaus were very important. Back when I was raiding in Cata there were certain cast times on cobra/steady shot that would allow you to add another shot in between your primary shot without delaying it. Adding an extra shot without being at this plateau would delay it and you would lose a considerable amount of DPS. Currently it is retarded to always cast 3 cobras in between an explosive but there is times when you DO cast three cobras in between.

You suggest I roll a dot class when I was asking about shot rotation.

Thanks for reminding me that explosive shot has a shorter cooldown than chimera

So does anybody have an actual answer to my question? I am reading all over these forums that haste plateaus no longer exist. And just to clarify since some people I guess don't understand this fact; we are not talking about dot plateaus here we are talking about shot-rotation plateaus.

[Azortharion]

If you were able to neg people on these forums I would give this post a neg. You don't actually address my question you just go full potato.

In Cataclysm, haste plateaus were very important. Back when I was raiding in Cata there were certain cast times on cobra/steady shot that would allow you to add another shot in between your primary shot without delaying it. Adding an extra shot without being at this plateau would delay it and you would lose a considerable amount of DPS.

You suggest I roll a dot class when I was asking about shot rotation.

Thanks for reminding me that explosive shot has a shorter cooldown than chimera

So does anybody have an actual answer to my question? I am reading all over these forums that haste plateaus no longer exist. And just to clarify since some people I guess don't understand this fact; we are not talking about dot plateaus here we are talking about shot-rotation plateaus.

The answer to your question is that your question is wrong. There are plenty haste plateaus, they are just not worth going for.

8500 haste to 3 Cobras per Explosive Shot cycle - there you go, the haste plateaus you missed so much, they're still there.

Except it's stupid and not worth going for - there is no such thing as a shot rotation anymore, you just react to however much focus you have.

There's another plateau, too - wanna hear it? It's 21400 (1.33s cast time, allows for 3 Cobras + Arcane), have fun gemming haste to get it so you can return to your beloved Cata playstyle.

TL;DR Deal with it or quit the game and don't be telling -me- I'm not answering your questions because you can't handle the answer.

[Inval1d]

If you were able to neg people on these forums I would give this post a neg. You don't actually address my question you just go full potato.

In Cataclysm, haste plateaus were very important. Back when I was raiding in Cata there were certain cast times on cobra/steady shot that would allow you to add another shot in between your primary shot without delaying it. Adding an extra shot without being at this plateau would delay it and you would lose a considerable amount of DPS.

You suggest I roll a dot class when I was asking about shot rotation.

Thanks for reminding me that explosive shot has a shorter cooldown than chimera

So does anybody have an actual answer to my question? I am reading all over these forums that haste plateaus no longer exist. And just to clarify since some people I guess don't understand this fact; we are not talking about dot plateaus here we are talking about shot-rotation plateaus.

He did answer your question. Haste plateus for hunters were removed or made unimportant because they are an out-dated and redundant mechanic, which is made evidently clear by Blizzard's plans for WoD to remove snapshotting completely.

If that doesn't answer your question I must admit that I don't understand what your question actually is.

[Invrlose]

The answer to your question is that your question is wrong. There are plenty haste plateaus, they are just not worth going for.

8500 haste to 3 Cobras per Explosive Shot cycle - there you go, the haste plateaus you missed so much, they're still there.

Except it's stupid and not worth going for - there is no such thing as a shot rotation anymore, you just react to however much focus you have.

There's another plateau, too - wanna hear it? It's 21400 (1.33s cast time, allows for 3 Cobras + Arcane), have fun gemming haste to get it so you can return to your beloved Cata playstyle.

Actually its basically 4000 haste to get 3 cobras between an explosive but we're going to ignore that.

What you people fail to understand is this;

I am not asking for haste plateaus or my Cata rotation.

What I'm asking is why the fuck are people saying plateaus do not exist? It's simple math. 6 second CD on explosive - 1 second CD = 5 seconds/shot count = Cast time

I AM ASKING WHY THEY ARE NOT MEANINGFUL.

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He did answer your question. Haste plateus for hunters were removed or made unimportant because they are an out-dated and redundant mechanic, which is made evidently clear by Blizzard's plans for WoD to remove snapshotting completely.

If that doesn't answer your question I must admit that I don't understand what your question actually is.

I'm asking how the fuck were they removed / what mechanics mean that plateaus are no longer meaningful

[Kissthebaby]

If you were able to neg people on these forums I would give this post a neg. You don't actually address my question you just go full potato.

In Cataclysm, haste plateaus were very important. Back when I was raiding in Cata there were certain cast times on cobra/steady shot that would allow you to add another shot in between your primary shot without delaying it. Adding an extra shot without being at this plateau would delay it and you would lose a considerable amount of DPS. Currently it is retarded to always cast 3 cobras in between an explosive but there is times when you DO cast three cobras in between.

You suggest I roll a dot class when I was asking about shot rotation.

Thanks for reminding me that explosive shot has a shorter cooldown than chimera

So does anybody have an actual answer to my question? I am reading all over these forums that haste plateaus no longer exist. And just to clarify since some people I guess don't understand this fact; we are not talking about dot plateaus here we are talking about shot-rotation plateaus.

In cata cobra shot gave less focus per shot . In mop they changed the amount of focus you get so you don't cobra as much witch means u don't need a plateau. Maybe do a little research next time.

[Invrlose]

In cata cobra shot gave less focus per shot . In mop they changed the amount of focus you get so you don't cobra as much witch means u don't need a plateau. Maybe do a little research next time.

You think I don't realise that they upped the focus regeneration? I mentioned that in OP HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

If you're at 15 focus, glaive is on CD, black arrow is on CD, you just cast explosive shot and there's nothing to do besides cast cobra or stand there with a blank stare on your face there is only so many cobras you can cast between your next explosive without clipping it. Casting 3 cobras with everything else on CD at 15 focus will not overcap you.

[Azortharion]

Actually its basically 4000 haste to get 3 cobras between an explosive but we're going to ignore that.

What you people fail to understand is this;

I am not asking for haste plateaus or my Cata rotation.

What I'm asking is why the fuck are people saying plateaus do not exist? It's simple math. 6 second CD on explosive - 1 second CD = 5 seconds/shot count = Cast time

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I'm asking how the fuck were they removed / what mechanics mean that plateaus are no longer meaningful

My b, forgot 10% attack speed buff, you get my point.

Nobody's saying they don't exist afaik, the reason they are useless is because things are much more fluid now. Thrill of the Hunt is the talent of choice for SV and depending on your procs with that you might not want to use Cobra Shot much at all.

+ Like I said, if you're doing 3 Cobras you're doing it wrong and it's a L2P issue. It's not Cata anymore, I'm not sure why you'd even bring this example up.

+ You still need more haste than gear can get you to do 3 Cobras + 1 Arcane, lol.

EDIT: OP is a lost cause, lol.

[Invrlose]

My b, forgot 10% attack speed buff, you get my point.

Nobody's saying they don't exist afaik, the reason they are useless is because things are much more fluid now. Thrill of the Hunt is the talent of choice for SV and depending on your procs with that you might not want to use Cobra Shot much at all.

+ Like I said, if you're doing 3 Cobras you're doing it wrong and it's a L2P issue. It's not Cata anymore, I'm not sure why you'd even bring this example up.

+ You still need more haste than gear can get you to do 3 Cobras + 1 Arcane, lol.

EDIT: OP is a lost cause, lol.

It's not really an L2p issue. I don't have T16 2-piece yet (If you read OP I Mention I came back from a long break) So ToTH is a DPS Loss over Dire beast for me.

I was just simply confused when I was reading that haste plateaus do not exist. I can even get a direct link from these forums. If I am at 10 focus with everything on CD I can fit 3 cobras in between an explosive.

All I was asking was what do people mean when there "Are no haste plateaus" but your mention of ToTH makes sense as there is likely never going to be any instance where you won't have ToTH available or where you will have to hardcast 3 cobras in a row. Currently for my gear level without ToTH this happens, but its irrelevant as I will have the 2 piece pretty soon here.

I apologise for asking the question in a confusing manner. I have just seen on various sources (WarcraftHunterUnion, MMO-Champion and a few others) that "there are no haste plateaus anymore" but it just mathematically doesn't make sense.

I was not QQing that I want plateaus or that I want to play a dot class. Thank you for mentioning ToTH.

[Azortharion]

It's not really an L2p issue. I don't have T16 2-piece yet (If you read OP I Mention I came back from a long break) So ToTH is a DPS Loss over Dire beast for me.

ToTH/Fervor are still better than Dire Beast regardless of what set bonus you have. If we pretend for a sec that Survival pets do 50% of a BM pet's damage (which I think is roughly true), Dire Beast will do about 350k DPE in BiS gear, as in 350k damage every 30 seconds over 15 seconds. This is -zero- against the amount of Arcane Shots you can get ToTH/Fervor in a 30-second time span. Could probably get at least 8 which is like 3+ times that damage (average Arcane Shot DPE in sims is 150k).

What "people" mean when they say there are no haste plateaus is that it's nothing you should pay mind to - you know, instead of writing a novella about how they used to exist and still kind of do exist but you shouldn't go for them for X and Y reasons.

WarcraftHuntersUnion is dead, MMO-Champion is full of misinformation (not sure where you have looked on here bout the haste plateau thing tho).

[Invrlose]

ToTH/Fervor are still better than Dire Beast regardless of what set bonus you have.

What "people" mean when they say there are no haste plateaus is that it's nothing you should pay mind to - you know, instead of writing a novella about how they used to exist and still kind of do exist but you shouldn't go for them for X and Y reasons.

WarcraftHuntersUnion is dead, MMO-Champion is full of misinformation (not sure where you have looked on here bout the haste plateau thing tho).

I've been running numerous Simcraft and in my current gear dire beast is ahead of ToTH by about 1200 DPS.

The X and Y Reasons are what I was asking for.

[Kissthebaby]

You think I don't realise that they upped the focus regeneration? I mentioned that in OP HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

If you're at 15 focus, glaive is on CD, black arrow is on CD, you just cast explosive shot and there's nothing to do besides cast cobra or stand there with a blank stare on your face there is only so many cobras you can cast between your next explosive without clipping it. Casting 3 cobras with everything else on CD at 15 focus will not overcap you.

When did u mention that read your post you never did . Don't be a smart ass

[Invrlose]

When did u mention that read your post you never did . Don't be a smart ass

I was at the 1.25s cast time haste plateau on cobra and could almost always fit 4 cobras in a row between an explosive without over capping and now 3 will usually over cap me from a low focus pool.

[Azortharion]

I've been running numerous Simcraft and in my current gear dire beast is ahead of ToTH by about 1200 DPS.

The X and Y Reasons are what I was asking for.

SimCraft for Survival sucks major balls - check Black Arrow uptime, for instance. Until someone writes a proper action priority, talent choices for Survival are dumb in SimCraft.

The X and Y reasons are:

1) ToTH is better now so focus spent/saved is much more fluent and sometimes you can spam Arcane Shots (ToTH + Rapid Fire is epic focus regen)
2) Focus regeneration in GENERAL is very fluid and it's much, much higher too. The reason shot cycles were a thing was because they ensured you the focus you needed for your signature shot every time, now focus regen is all over the place and comes from many more sources than just Cobra/passive regen so you'll just wanna use as many Arcanes over Cobras as possible without delaying anything on a cd.

[Invrlose]

SimCraft for Survival sucks major balls - check Black Arrow uptime, for instance. Until someone writes a proper action priority, talent choices for Survival are dumb in SimCraft.

The X and Y reasons are:

1) ToTH is better now so focus spent/saved is much more fluent and sometimes you can spam Arcane Shots (ToTH + Rapid Fire is epic focus regen)
2) Focus regeneration in GENERAL is very fluid and it's much, much higher too. The reason shot cycles were a thing was because they ensured you the focus you needed for your signature shot every time, now focus regen is all over the place and comes from many more sources than just Cobra/passive regen so you'll just wanna use as many Arcanes over Cobras as possible without delaying anything on a cd.

1 and 2 is all I needed to know. Thank you, sir.

Stronk wtf at 85% black arrow uptime from Simcraft.

[Deleted]

You think I don't realise that they upped the focus regeneration? I mentioned that in OP HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

If you're at 15 focus, glaive is on CD, black arrow is on CD, you just cast explosive shot and there's nothing to do besides cast cobra or stand there with a blank stare on your face there is only so many cobras you can cast between your next explosive without clipping it. Casting 3 cobras with everything else on CD at 15 focus will not overcap you.

As SV you are not supposed to overuse cobra shot. Reasons for this is because of the 4p t16. If you are being way too liberal with your use of cobra shots, you're going to be doing less arcane shots throughout the fight, because we effectively have an extra focus regen mechanic with our 4p. You can be at 15 focus, get a LNL proc, and by the time you come out of it, be at 90 focus with some decent RNG. Now if you're doing your 3 cobra shot cata rotation inbetween each explosive shot, you're probably going to be sitting at relatively high focus by the time you get that precious LNL proc, and you'll be have been capped by the time you are out of it for quite some time, making your 3 cobra shots beforehand completely redundant. That is why you want to stay at a fairly low amount of focus as SV, and only build on it when you need to. This is what makes ToTH so attractive right now, because you can scrape the bottom of the focus bar for longer. Regardless of what sims say, with correct play, ToTH will come out on top.

I'd also like to add, the more Arcane shots you use over cobra's the more your rapid fire cooldown is reduced by (2p t16), again meaning more focus regen, and more dps overall.

[Azortharion]

Stronk wtf at 85% black arrow uptime from Simcraft.

Exaaactly.

If you study the action priority, it will mindlessly aim to use up your ToTH stacks on Arcane Shot, resulting in lack of focus required to use Black Arrow and stuff on cooldown. It's also terrible at using Crows.

That's why DB/Fervor wins in sims.

[Invrlose]

As SV you are not supposed to overuse cobra shot. Reasons for this is because of the 4p t16. If you are being way too liberal with your use of cobra shots, you're going to be doing less arcane shots throughout the fight, because we effectively have an extra focus regen mechanic with our 4p. You can be at 15 focus, get a LNL proc, and by the time you come out of it, be at 90 focus with some decent RNG. Now if you're doing your 3 cobra shot cata rotation inbetween each explosive shot, you're probably going to be sitting at relatively high focus by the time you get that precious LNL proc, and you'll be have been capped by the time you are out of it for quite some time, making your 3 cobra shots beforehand completely redundant. That is why you want to stay at a fairly low amount of focus as SV, and only build on it when you need to. This is what makes ToTH so attractive right now.

I'd also like to add, the more Arcane shots you use over cobra's the more your rapid fire cooldown is reduced by (2p t16), again meaning more focus regen, and more dps overall.

Now it makes a bit more sense. I wasn't suggesting that I sit there spamming 3 cobras each cycle, I don't... But I have had to a few times and wasn't sure what people meant when there was no such thing as a plateau. What I have been reading i guess is that the amount of focus you're getting through other things you will hardly ever have to cast enough cobras or shots to ever delay an explosive.

2 piece with AOC = 1 minute rapid fire CD... Me likey

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Exaaactly.

If you study the action priority, it will mindlessly aim to use up your ToTH stacks on Arcane Shot, resulting in lack of focus required to use Black Arrow and stuff on cooldown. It's also terrible at using Crows.

That's why DB/Fervor wins in sims.

What's sort of your rough priority?