Free lesser flasks, point of catalyst?

[Rale89]

Erm, so with the removal of catalyst as a material for lesser flasks, what are non alchemists with the building supposed to be doing with them?
Also what kind of moron made that decision? Let everyone being able to craft a thing under the limit of several instances a day, and then remove the limit? Great job of ruining what little profit was available to alchemist.

Yes im aware that there is still a limit on greater flasks and that anyone serious about raiding will be using them, but im also aware that anyone serious about raiding will have their own source of them as well. Gold making is about cashing in on other players lazynes. The way the things are right now, it takes zero effort to get the lesser version, hence everyone will be able to do it, hence they will cost nothing at all.

[Alroxas]

Gold making is about cashing in on other players lazynes. The way the things are right now, it takes zero effort to get the lesser version, hence everyone will be able to do it, hence they will cost nothing at all.

Kettle, please meet Mr. Pot. Translation: Stop being a lazy player and figure out the markets that will be profitable (and don't expect other people to figure it out for you).

As you mentioned, yes people who opt for the Alchemy building can get normal flasks but that means 1 less small profession building they could use instead.

[Elorii]

Um, this should come as no surprise, but I don't think Blizzard is that worried about the gold-making community. Look at all the gold-making nerds in MoP and coming up in WoD.

As said above, you just need to get creative to make the gold.

[Deleted]

Removing the FUCKING BOP COOLDOWN from consumables is the only logical thing to do!

Now it's turn to fix Jewelcrafting.

The power of gold making on consumables comes from selling big bulks of them. I made my millions selling gems for maximum of about 800 gold each (average 50-100 for regular, 300 for meta). Profit margins weren't that high but i've sold tens of thousands of them over the course of MOP. Even 20 gold profit on one gem, times 10,000 gems sold = 2 MILLION profit.

BOP cooldowns are cancer. They make fuck all after first 3 months.

[Etamalgren]

Removing the FUCKING BOP COOLDOWN from consumables is the only logical thing to do!

Now it's turn to fix Jewelcrafting.

The power of gold making on consumables comes from selling big bulks of them. I made my millions selling gems for maximum of about 800 gold each (average 50-100 for regular, 300 for meta). Profit margins weren't that high but i've sold tens of thousands of them over the course of MOP. Even 20 gold profit on one gem, times 10,000 gems sold = 2 MILLION profit.

BOP cooldowns are cancer. They make fuck all after first 3 months.

Um, 20 * 10,000 = 200,000, not 2,000,000.

[Deleted]

Now it's turn to fix Jewelcrafting.

No, it doesn't need fixing because its not broken in WoD.

It was badly broken in MoP. Because of how good JC was for making money, crafters camped auction house 24/7. Many used bots for that. Normal players who were not no-life campers or botters couldn't make any profit because they were undercut within seconds of posting. So few people made millions, the rest made nothing. Does that sound like a good mechanic? It doesn't to me.

In WoD daily cooldowns and lack of gem slots on gear fixes that issue. Now camping AH 24/7 or botting AH will not be as good as it used to be, discouraging people from such aggressive behavior.

[Deleted]

Pardon for math error, but you get the drill. I'm on a very high pop server and I'm used to getting undercut in seconds - literally. But on the other hand I also sell gems within seconds of posting them. I'm not botting nor camping the AH 24/7. On high demand days I camp it for few hours (usually evening during raids), on low demand days I just do a blanket post with TSM and re-post the gems every 90 minutes or so. Properly configured TSM pretty much does the job for you, you just prospect some ores and craft the gems. But talking with numerous casual Joe's they just don't give a fuck or are discouraged by complexity of TSM or the shuffle - which isn't complex at all, but also isn't crystal clear to a newcomer either.

It's going down from 500,000 - 1,000,000 per month to maybe 25,000 per month and that's on launch only. Really bad design choice.

[Saravat]

No, it doesn't need fixing because its not broken in WoD.

It was badly broken in MoP. Because of how good JC was for making money, crafters camped auction house 24/7. Many used bots for that. Normal players who were not no-life campers or botters couldn't make any profit because they were undercut within seconds of posting. So few people made millions, the rest made nothing. Does that sound like a good mechanic? It doesn't to me.

In WoD daily cooldowns and lack of gem slots on gear fixes that issue. Now camping AH 24/7 or botting AH will not be as good as it used to be, discouraging people from such aggressive behavior.

Oh, please. I play the AH as a secondary mini-game and have an entire community of in-game friends who are also serious gold-makers. Speaking just for myself, I've made millions of gold from JC, but find those who feel the need to bot or camp the AH quite amusing. There are plenty of good reasons to make changes in crafting, but "aggressive" AH behavior isn't one of them.

As for those freaking out over the catalyst changes for lesser flasks - if you really believe Blizzard is finished making changes to crafting, please contact me in-game because you're exactly the kind of people I like to do business with...

[Raiju]

No, it doesn't need fixing because its not broken in WoD.

It was badly broken in MoP. Because of how good JC was for making money, crafters camped auction house 24/7. Many used bots for that. Normal players who were not no-life campers or botters couldn't make any profit because they were undercut within seconds of posting. So few people made millions, the rest made nothing. Does that sound like a good mechanic? It doesn't to me.

In WoD daily cooldowns and lack of gem slots on gear fixes that issue. Now camping AH 24/7 or botting AH will not be as good as it used to be, discouraging people from such aggressive behavior.

Do u no wat addons r

srs.

[Rale89]

Funny how many pro's are around. I never in my seven years of wow bothered with making money on such tedious things like consumables, and i don't plan to begin now. I make my money at the start of xpack and this time around money will be in epic gear upgrade items.

What im doing is stating how stupid the change is, at that point you might as well remove the lesser flask from alchemy altogather and add it as vendor item for garrison resource...

[Raiju]

There are no elixirs, having the ONLY type of buff (flask/elixir) in wod being locked behind 1 professions CD when every other profession has been gutted in terms of gold making ability to various extents, is ridiculous.

It's strong as it is with just the greater flasks that trust me, most raiders will want anyway.

[Rale89]

You get 3 small building plots, any1 with at least one alt can plant a small building on one of them at no cost to their gameplay whatsoever and get almost all the benefits available to one of the professions, how is that ok?

[Raiju]

Because the other professions have it a lot worse and I can't be bothered going through every single one to make htat obvious to you, since you seem to only have looked at alchemy, being an alchemist.

Enchanting < Inscription < Engineering < Tailoring/Leatherworking < BS/JC < Alchemy, as my rough impressions of gold making ability in WoD. This is taking into account both the initial rush and long term.

The *ONLY* thing enchanting gets outside of the garrison (and without daily cd's from that stuff iirc so no ability to fast track), is weapon enchants. Sure that's an important enchant, but how often do you actually replace your weapons? Enchanting is a very popular profession, so you are going to have a lot of competition for relatively slow sales each. It's like how glyphs are with too many people in the market.

[Deleted]

Because the other professions have it a lot worse and I can't be bothered going through every single one to make htat obvious to you, since you seem to only have looked at alchemy, being an alchemist.

Enchanting < Inscription < Engineering < Tailoring/Leatherworking < BS/JC < Alchemy, as my rough impressions of gold making ability in WoD. This is taking into account both the initial rush and long term.

The *ONLY* thing enchanting gets outside of the garrison (and without daily cd's from that stuff iirc so no ability to fast track), is weapon enchants. Sure that's an important enchant, but how often do you actually replace your weapons? Enchanting is a very popular profession, so you are going to have a lot of competition for relatively slow sales each. It's like how glyphs are with too many people in the market.

you are either just butthurt about how they changed enchanting or you have not played beta enough..
enchanting is only behind alchemy in terms of goldmaking, the daily CD of enchanting is HUGE.
For testing purpose I disenchanted about 5 epics (hard to get on beta) and I have only gotten around 3 epic shards per item.
The daily CD yields 10 epic shards (in the form of one temporal crystal), do you not see how potent that is, espacially in the very first content tier?
As long as they don't nerf the costs of high tier enchants like they did with flasks, enchanters will always find buyers and nonenchanters won't even get their own enchanting-needs covered (assuming you are actually playing the game).
also keep in mind that there is no JC shuffle in the game, so material is way harder to get and therefore has increased value.
there also is no timeless isle which throws way too many epics into the market.

again, as long as they don't nerf the enchanting costs, I will have 2-3 toons with enchanting because temporal crystals will be gold.

[Raiju]

I don't have an enchanter, so you are patently wrong.

Temporal crystals have nothing on crafted epics for start of expansion, and will be dirt within a few months as per norm. The daily CD only makes this *FASTER*.

[Deleted]

weapon enchants which every raider and pvpler NEEDS and which do not have a cheap alternative are going to be insane goldmakers.

crafted gear on the other hand will be dictated by the price of savage blood, which every character can farm for themself and sell.
the 640 gear will not be that interesting outside of the first IDs, in the long run crafted gear wont have any meaning for a raider since it cannot roll bonus stats or sockets and crafted weapon are too low itemlevel once you go into mythic.
A nonenchanter has no real advantage, again the enchanter can just farm savage blood themself.


also, if you think crafted gear is that important and profitable, why would you rate inscription as low as you did?


please, if you did not test the beta sufficiently, try to not spread your uneducated information.

[Raiju]

weapon enchants which every raider and pvpler NEEDS and which do not have a cheap alternative are going to be insane goldmakers.

crafted gear on the other hand will be dictated by the price of savage blood, which every character can farm for themself and sell.
the 640 gear will not be that interesting outside of the first IDs, in the long run crafted gear wont have any meaning for a raider since it cannot roll bonus stats or sockets and crafted weapon are too low itemlevel once you go into mythic.
A nonenchanter has no real advantage, again the enchanter can just farm savage blood themself.

Crafted gear has ridiculous daily CD locking. Weapon enchants are only as good if we suddenly get new weapons left right and centre (hint: we haven't ever before - it's a slow slot to upgrade)

also, if you think crafted gear is that important and profitable, why would you rate inscription as low as you did?


please, if you did not test the beta sufficiently, try to not spread your uneducated information.

Because mr pro beta tester, the trinket stats are fixed and therefore weak for a lot of specs compared to optimal stat crafted gear. Your little jab says more about you than my beta experience.

[Deleted]

the trinkets will be the most important slot for almost every specc in the game, crit may not be the very best stat for everyone, but it's superior to missionrewards and the first raid does not drop very many that could be superior,
inscription also has the option to craft casterweapons and there are new glyphs which will sell,
all in all, you rating it lower than leatherworking/tailer/BS is nonsense.

and secondly you will go through alot of weapons at the start of an expansion, it may be a slot that's not upgraded as frequently, but enchanting it is a must and as I said it has no cheap alternatives. Within the first few weeks, those enchants will sell very high and I don't see that changing for the first months. You are underestimating the time it will take to get temporal crystals and the high demand on those high tier enchants.


crafted gear has high CD locking, but it has no long term viability.
And also my point still stands, a big portion of crafted gear is savage blood, which every character can farm, so you can make gold off of that without leatherworking/tailoring.
I don't want to pick a proffession if I already know that the gear it does craft (max 665 is meh) will be outdated very quickly, I would much rather have alchemy/enchanting/juwe and be set the whole expansion.


If you don't want my feedback, fine with me, but stop spreading your irrational bias and don't rank proffessions if you haven't tried them.

[Raiju]

I have tried them, you apparently haven't.

Trinkets with bad stats are just that - bad. Standard trinkets are nothing special, trinkets with OP effects are what make trinket slots stand out.

Even as a dual wielder I probably hold less than 8 different weapons during the entire first tier from hitting max level. This may be 10 with the added normal difficulty but it's hardly a huge amount. A non-dual wielder will have even less.

The weapon enchants won't sell very high (compared to crafted gear) because there is no raiding for 2.5 weeks. Noone has a reason to buy them before that. Enchants using the X epic crystal of the expansion always crash within days of hitting the market, from my experience.

[Deleted]

I have tried them, you apparently haven't.

Trinkets with bad stats are just that - bad. Standard trinkets are nothing special, trinkets with OP effects are what make trinket slots stand out.

Even as a dual wielder I probably hold less than 8 different weapons during the entire first tier from hitting max level. This may be 10 with the added normal difficulty but it's hardly a huge amount. A non-dual wielder will have even less.

The weapon enchants won't sell very high (compared to crafted gear) because there is no raiding for 2.5 weeks. Noone has a reason to buy them before that. Enchants using the X epic crystal of the expansion always crash within days of hitting the market, from my experience.

how excatly are the trinkets bad?
they have a standard itemlevelbudget, they have flat primary stat and an offstat procc on pull,
look at the loottable, that's just how trinket work in WoD, there is no trinket with a primary stat procc.

but w/e, you are quoted and we can speak again in a month or so


edit: ALL high tier and weapon enchants will sell the very first week and not just when raids open, people want to be minmaxing for cms, instances, farming, bgs, arena, w/e there is.