Rift to introduce Easy/Hard mode Raids

[Slipmat]

Enjoy raiding in Rift but find some bosses can be a pain to progress past? Up for testing on the PTS (Public Test Server) at the moment is a new Easy - Normal - Hard mode for the 10-man Rhen of Fate.

When you first zone into the instance you will see two pillars for Easy and Hard mode, clicking either will put you into that mode but once you get 'locked' by killing a boss, you are then locked to that mode for the rest of the instance.



As well as been locked to the mode, easy mode will not drop any gear or award achievements, only raid marks, hard mode awards extra loot and normal is, well, just normal

[Fencers]

I don't really like when developers use difficulty sliders to prolong repeatable (required) content in an MMORPG. It's cheap.

And this method looks super inelegant too. They couldn't create a better interface for difficulty modes or embed a selection method in the UI? Gross & unintuitive.

[Deleted]

the beginning of the end

[Cracked]

I don't really like when developers use difficulty sliders to prolong repeatable (required) content in an MMORPG. It's cheap.

And this method looks super inelegant too. They couldn't create a better interface for difficulty modes or embed a selection method in the UI? Gross & unintuitive.

So clicking a menu is better than actually doing something in the game? You can't be for real, but if you are, then you're the reason the immersion is gone from games.

[Slipmat]

Click one orb for easy, click the other for hard, not really sure how easier they can make it

Just as well Morpheus held out his hands and offered Neo either a blue pill or a red pill, imagine if he had to go through the UI in the Matrix to do it

I don't really like when developers use difficulty sliders to prolong repeatable (required) content in an MMORPG

Whichever mode you pick, you get locked to it on the usual week lockout, not like you get to run the same Raid three times in three modes the same week

[Fencers]

So clicking a menu is better than actually doing something in the game? You can't be for real, but if you are, then you're the reason the immersion is gone from games.

Immersion is not gameplay.

Click one orb for easy, click the other for hard, not really sure how easier they can make it

Being inelegant or unintutitve does not mean it is necessarily "hard".

Just as well Morpheus held out his hands and offered Neo either a blue pill or a red pill, imagine if he had to go through the UI in the Matrix to do it

It would have been a consistent metaphor if he had.

Whichever mode you pick, you get locked to it on the usual week lockout, not like you get to run the same Raid three times in three modes the same week

That doesn't really change anything. Actually it just makes mode selection an even more effective device for content prolonging.

[Bethanie]

Immersion is not gameplay.

True, but immersion gives people a reason to actually play the game, especially when we're talking about a role playing game like Rift, whereas such a game without any immersion is frankly not worth playing.

If you want instant gratification 'game play' without any immersion, then playing an mmorpg is probably the wrong choice.

[Fencers]

True, but immersion gives people a reason to actually play the game

No, this is not true. Gameplay is the reason you can even play a game- it is the raison d'etre (so to speak) of video games from design to development to play.

If you want instant gratification 'game play' without any immersion, then playing an mmorpg is probably the wrong choice.

This statement is nonsensical and a false dichotomy.

[Bethanie]

No, this is not true. Gameplay is the reason you can even play a game- it is the raison d'etre (so to speak) of video games from design to development to play.

So you don't think immersion is a relevant to a role playing game?

Personally I play rpg games for the same reason I read novels or watch films, and that reason is to be immersed in a fantasy would. Immersion is a reason to play games, and to dismiss it so bluntly as you have done shows how little you understand about games.

[StrawberryZebra]

As well as been locked to the mode, easy mode will not drop any gear or award achievements, only raid marks, hard mode awards extra loot and normal is, well, just normal

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder who exactly they're aiming the easy modes at. Its of very little benefit to guilds already struggling to do the content, setting it to easy would lock them out of any gear upgrades that could potentially be useful to them to help with the boss they're stuck on. Not being able to adjust the difficulty for the bosses they're stuck on without affecting the rest makes it a very unappealing option for them, you're throwing away potential progress for raid marks which typically get you worse items, and you have other avenues for obtaining.

Its very clearly not to entice players to start raiding, the rewards for it are too unattractive for that, and no loot also rules it out as a catch up mechanism too. Pugs aren't going to bother with easy mode, in most circumstances anyway, they're doing it almost exclusively for the loot so it rules them out. In fact, the only people who are really going to get any significant benefit from this are the hardcore types who just want the quick marks.

As for the hard modes, the intended audience for them is most likely well beyond doing Rhen of Fate for the loot anyway. Adding in any kind of additional incentive, say drops to upgrade your T2 gear and such, is just going to force those guilds who are way beyond an entry level raid to constantly rerun it every single week.

The whole thing is just a baffling, poorly thought out decision and I really can't understand what they're hoping to achiveve with it.

[Fencers]

So you don't think immersion is a relevant to a role playing game?

I said nonesuch.

Immersion is a reason to play games

It can be a personal reason a player decides to play a video game. Immersion is neither gameplay or expression. Video games can only ever be about gameplay. They literally can not exist, be designed, coded or played otherwise.

Contra to that is by turns marketing (industry) and ignorance (consumer).

[Khelendros]

This is the kind of thing that makes me wonder who exactly they're aiming the easy modes at. Its of very little benefit to guilds already struggling to do the content, setting it to easy would lock them out of any gear upgrades that could potentially be useful to them to help with the boss they're stuck on. Not being able to adjust the difficulty for the bosses they're stuck on without affecting the rest makes it a very unappealing option for them, you're throwing away potential progress for raid marks which typically get you worse items, and you have other avenues for obtaining.

Its very clearly not to entice players to start raiding, the rewards for it are too unattractive for that, and no loot also rules it out as a catch up mechanism too. Pugs aren't going to bother with easy mode, in most circumstances anyway, they're doing it almost exclusively for the loot so it rules them out. In fact, the only people who are really going to get any significant benefit from this are the hardcore types who just want the quick marks.

As for the hard modes, the intended audience for them is most likely well beyond doing Rhen of Fate for the loot anyway. Adding in any kind of additional incentive, say drops to upgrade your T2 gear and such, is just going to force those guilds who are way beyond an entry level raid to constantly rerun it every single week.

The whole thing is just a baffling, poorly thought out decision and I really can't understand what they're hoping to achiveve with it.

My understanding was that the easy raids MAY have loot. At the time of the livestream they had not decided. They will be doing a seperate stream about this. So just cause there is no loot on PTS doesn't mean there won't be, it just means its not done yet. 3.3 is still heavily WIP. They are adding in hard modes to give additional loot avenues and content to guilds that aren't able to do some of the harder 20 mans or that can't field enough to do 20 mans. The main reason for easy raids was to let people see these raids. Raids often tell the main chunk of the story, and easy mode raids allow people to just PUG these so they can see the story and beyond that maybe familiarize themselves with a few key mechanics if they want to jump into real raiding. There are plenty of good reasons to do it and my hunch is it will be very successful as the HK IA's were successful.

It can be a personal reason a player decides to play a video game. Immersion is neither gameplay or expression. Video games can only ever be about gameplay. They literally can not exist, be designed, coded or played otherwise.

Contra to that is by turns marketing (industry) and ignorance (consumer).

This is a silly and ridiculous statement and you should know better. Any long time RPG player knows the roots of the genre. It was never rooted in gameplay, the main raison d'etre for RPG's has always been immersion. Gameplay has become more and more important as time has gone on, some might argue thats its the most important thing now, but thats not how things started back in the MUD days. Its called Role Playing Game for a reason. Code is a mechanical means to an end. RPG's can't exist without some sense of world, of immersion. They two are intertwined.

[Fencers]

It was never rooted in gameplay

This is factually false. The genre was built entirely from mechanical rules used to play table top war games. The rules of various war games were adapted to suit the metaphor of a Tolkein-esque setting by Gary Gygax. But a "wizard" was still functionally an artillery piece.

Precursors to Gygax's D&D, likewise used a system of dice and pip mechanics to express a metaphor through gameplay.

Early RPGs strove to create perfectly functioning rule sets for the settings electronically. Historical reviews and examples of the RPG genre in digital form bear this out expressly by design.

Gygax himself described RPGs as Role, role and roll.

This is getting off-topic, but any assertion by the consumer that a consideration is higher than gameplay is both personal and subjective. Video games must be programmed and must adhere to a discrete system of rules to function; they can not function otherwise. As a literal, objective fact.

[Deleted]

It can be a personal reason a player decides to play a video game. Immersion is neither gameplay or expression. Video games can only ever be about gameplay. They literally can not exist, be designed, coded or played otherwise.

Kotick said "The goal that I had in bringing a lot of the packaged goods folks into Activision about 10 years ago was to take all the fun out of making video games."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzacY8PYZLE

What if immersion, a character's lore, is the meaning of your roleplay... oh wait ouroboros-chan . This is also working IRL, I guess. You must enjoy calling people, plebes "ignorants" who must obey to a discrete minority, such immersion much cosmologic.

and ignorance (consumer).

What a beautiful vision, it's so interesting , teaching plebes how to have fun, it must be rewarding, I guess.

must be programmed and must adhere to a discrete system of rules to function

Are you implicitly saying that video games aren't only for commercials or for recreational purpose, but a full DISCRETE education to create a formatting rule of a certain society expression. (nobody knows that video games > cinema + tv, nobody... Nothing can be hidden behind the scene, just a discrete system of rules)

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/54912945.jpg

[Edge-]

I'd be way more excited if I still had the time to raid, but I like this for the most part. Maybe I'll find some time to do some pug raiding or something.

[Khelendros]

This is factually false. The genre was built entirely from mechanical rules used to play table top war games. The rules of various war games were adapted to suit the metaphor of a Tolkein-esque setting by Gary Gygax. But a "wizard" was still functionally an artillery piece.

Precursors to Gygax's D&D, likewise used a system of dice and pip mechanics to express a metaphor through gameplay.

Early RPGs strove to create perfectly functioning rule sets for the settings electronically. Historical reviews and examples of the RPG genre in digital form bear this out expressly by design.

Gygax himself described RPGs as Role, role and roll.

This is getting off-topic, but any assertion by the consumer that a consideration is higher than gameplay is both personal and subjective. Video games must be programmed and must adhere to a discrete system of rules to function; they can not function otherwise. As a literal, objective fact.

As you yourself proved, the games would also not exist without immersion. Ask yourself, what function did the gameplay serve? To facilitate RP. Ever read the monster manual or players handbook. They don't read like instruction manuals. The gameplay is a framework to allow the immersion to exist properly. A means to an end. Without the immersion inherent in RPG's, the gameplay created for them would not exists. Its a classic chicken or the egg argument. But this much is certain, without the immersion and story the gameplay wouldn't exist. So to say that those are not the most important thing is to my mind, factually false.

[Fencers]

As you yourself proved, the games would also not exist without immersion.

This is again, false. Games can exist sans visual representation, narrative, sound and abstract concepts such as "immersion", "fun" and so forth. We have explicit examples of such- that can still be played. I can make a game right now (DD/T) without such. Most electronic games are made to paper-proof in pre-production by TLs, DDs and PMs; they often are required to do so by the publishers, board of directors, et cetera. Yes, they actually ask for these milestones.

There is no such thing as a game without gameplay. It is required- games express nothing else. This is an absolute not a point of contention or my opinion. You simply can not make a game otherwise and no human or machine would be able to interface (play) with the game.

No more off-topic discussion, however. If you chose to not understand how video games are developed & published or the mechanisms of play for any game created by humans I can not educate you beyond your own willingness, nor do I seek to educate.

[Lazuli]

What was the point of that retarded ass argument?

Anyway I do not like this, I always loved Rift because it doesn't have multiple difficulties to juggle like WoW. This is severely disappointing, but I guess it doesn't matter since the LFR difficulty does not reward loot & thusly is not required to enter normal > HM. I hope they stick to that at least.

It is fair that Trion wants more people to experience raids... but honestly, wouldn't this type of thing be better existing in chronicle form?

edit: I can't believe I missed this on the official forums, but I only browse general discussion is why. This was posted on the 13th there LOL.

[Khelendros]

This is again, false. Games can exist sans visual representation, narrative, sound and abstract concepts such as "immersion", "fun" and so forth. We have explicit examples of such- that can still be played. I can make a game right now (DD/T) without such. Most electronic games are made to paper-proof in pre-production by TLs, DDs and PMs; they often are required to do so by the publishers, board of directors, et cetera. Yes, they actually ask for these milestones.

There is no such thing as a game without gameplay. It is required- games express nothing else. This is an absolute not a point of contention or my opinion. You simply can not make a game otherwise and no human or machine would be able to interface (play) with the game.

No more off-topic discussion, however. If you chose to not understand how video games are developed & published or the mechanisms of play for any game created by humans I can not educate you beyond your own willingness, nor do I seek to educate.

We are talking about RPG's we have always been talking about RPGs. Not PONG. But in so far as we are talking a general sense, no one creates a game by saying. "I want to make a mechanical construct that people can interface with!!". Game designs starts with one thing first, world building. Wether that world is an RPG or Call of Duty or even a puzzle game. Game design predates the systems required to make it work. You cannot have a game without story or immersion, otherwise you have PONG.

This whole thing is funny since I actually worked for a game company at one point. So I speak from experience. When Mark Jacobs started working on Imperator do you think he said. "Hey guys lets build an engine first, then I'll just throw some random story around it". No, thats not how it works. He had an idea, a story, a world. What is that? Its immersion.

I'm also done with this.

It is fair that Trion wants more people to experience raids... but honestly, wouldn't this type of thing be better existing in chronicle form?

edit: I can't believe I missed this on the official forums, but I only browse general discussion is why. This was posted on the 13th there LOL.

I'm a little suprised by this as well. Especially considering the HK IA served this purpose. Maybe because there are certain things they just can't do in an IA? A chronicle is difficult because you basically have to remake the entire dungeon. But honestly it sounds like Easy raids are basically more challenging chronicles. I think until we can actually get in an play around with these in completed form its hard to know what their intent was.

[xuros]

I don't really like when developers use difficulty sliders to prolong repeatable (required) content in an MMORPG. It's cheap.

And this method looks super inelegant too. They couldn't create a better interface for difficulty modes or embed a selection method in the UI? Gross & unintuitive.

Looks to be more to cater to different guilds. SOme raids are too tough as some guilds load up on the top players and others have the more layed back - not perfect on rotation types. Think its so the hardcore can have their hard raids with top tier loot while the other side of the fense can still raid but not with something they can never hope to beat on their own while current.

Leasts thats my view of what they are doing.