"Storm Bolt and Shockwave are no longer DPS gains. They're now utility."

[Tyze]

Not sure if people have discussed this.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742655233#3

[Toppy]

Yeah, it made me laugh too.

[Cybrus]

When has shockwave been a DPS gain? Only thing that comes to mind is Hellfire Assault.

Obviously for progression it's great on Mannoroth and Xhul for imps, but that's more for CC than anything. Bummer about Storm Bolt though, or not. Only fight I ever really used SB for though was Fel Lord, so eh.

[Tyze]

When has shockwave been a DPS gain? Only thing that comes to mind is Hellfire Assault.

Obviously for progression it's great on Mannoroth and Xhul for imps, but that's more for CC than anything. Bummer about Storm Bolt though, or not. Only fight I ever really used SB for though was Fel Lord, so eh.

It's still a "dps" talent, does damage. Also good for pvp. But I don't understand Storm Bolt, so it's just one singletarget stun but used far away? Ehm.

[Caargon]

I dont care about the damage. I care that the only utility skills in the entire tree share a tier with a vital, almost mandatory pvp mobility talent.

[Archimtiros]

I dont care about the damage. I care that the only utility skills in the entire tree share a tier with a vital, almost mandatory pvp mobility talent.

While worse from a PvP perspective, it's much better from a PvE perspective. This only serves to highlight why the two should be entirely separated. The PvP talent trees do this to an extent, but they really just need to make two completely exclusive trees.

[Celarent]

I like it. Concussion Blow with wings.

Of course, pulling Storm Bolt away from dual-purpose and all the irritating calculations it forced is an indirect repudiation of "Make your talent tree empower an entire column of one thing!" Blizzmen, just give us tiers.

[Haveth]

Quality posts as always from Celestalon.

Probably too lazy to make a proper third talent to compete with shockwave and storm bolt so they are just going to chop all the damage off of both and make them pure utility abilities.

Or just leave it as is and call it a day in true Blizzard fashion.

[Archimtiros]

Quality posts as always from Celestalon.

Probably too lazy to make a proper third talent to compete with shockwave and storm bolt so they are just going to chop all the damage off of both and make them pure utility abilities.

Or just leave it as is and call it a day in true Blizzard fashion.

To be fair, they work better as pure utility than damage.

Don't get me wrong, I like Storm Bolt. It was a great ability in SoO, when it was the only talented attack to customize the rotation, but with the advent of Sudden Death, and now Overpower/Wrecking Ball, it's kind of unnecessary.

Like I said before, from a PvE standpoint, this is a good change, but from PvP it's bad. That should only be further encouragement that the real problem is the continued overlap of those two modes of gameplay.

[Haveth]

The nuke damage from stun immunity is what made Storm Bolt the iconic ability it is today, and what separated it from other stuns. It's hilariously ironic that iconic class abilities are being gutted and watered down, all in the name of class fantasy, not just for warriors, but for every other class as well.

I suppose we'll find out next build if Storm bolt/Shockwave damage gets the axe, and thus both that talent tier and Celestalon's statement in any way make sense. It's incredibly odd a statement to make after several sequential builds adjusting Storm Bolt's damage. With the (assumed) removal of the damage component of Storm bolt, I can't see it ever being used over shockwave in any dungeon or raiding scenario, and if it is, it would be incredibly niche. If add management is necessary, and movement is low enough where double time isn't necessary, Shockwave will be the choice to take and Storm Bolt may as well be a PvP talent at that point.

I can't say I'm happy with any of the talent tiers though, each row has glaring design flaws that probably won't get fixed til next expansion when we do this same song and dance, or even more hilarious a possibility, they decide to outright remove talents because "Most people set and forget the majority of their talents through an expansion". I can only hope I'm wrong.

[Archimtiros]

I'd hardly call it iconic when the ability has only existed for two expansions, and it's damage only significant for one raid (SoO).

As I said, I liked the damage component too, but it isn't really needed anymore, as we have high damage/high proc rate attacks in Overpower and Wrecking Ball. The 30s CD doesn't synergize well with anything, requires stun immune targets, and it's 30s cooldown presents burst issues.

FWIW, I doubt the damage will be removed from it entirely, it will just be lowered enough to the point where it isn't worth using rotationally.

[Toppy]

I'd hardly call it iconic when the ability has only existed for two expansions, and it's damage only significant for one raid (SoO).

As I said, I liked the damage component too, but it isn't really needed anymore, as we have high damage/high proc rate attacks in Overpower and Wrecking Ball. The 30s CD doesn't synergize well with anything, requires stun immune targets, and it's 30s cooldown presents burst issues.

FWIW, I doubt the damage will be removed from it entirely, it will just be lowered enough to the point where it isn't worth using rotationally.

Its also iconic since its been around since WC3 by one of the most iconic warrior hero classes: mountain king. A class in which we share all but one ability (Which we used to have) with.


So lets be honest, if we lose our stun that does 400% damage to the unstunable, thats one less warrior unique thing. Is there going to be anything left for warriors thats unique by the time legion comes?

Why bother getting rid of the damage component? Why not give charge a damage component on that line, and stormbolt and shockwave some kind of mobility component, and call it even? The point here is that those skills are FUN, and blizzard is making it a little less fun for shaky reasons.

[blankfaced]

Not sure if people have discussed this.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742655233#3

Who's to say they're even going to keep the damage on those abilities.

[Toppy]

Why not keep the damage but do this:

Double Time: Increases the charges of Charge/Intercept by 1, decreases cooldown by 3 seconds, and causes X damage to target and Y damage to enemies you pass through. Deals quadruple damage to targets permanently immune to stuns.

Stormbolt: Hurls your weapon at an enemy, causing (200% of Attack power) Physical damage and stunning for 4 sec. Leaves a lightning charges line in its path. Passing through the line increases movement speed by 30%. Deals quadruple damage to targets permanently immune to stuns.

Shockwave:
Sends a wave of force in a frontal cone, causing X damage and stunning all enemies within 10 yards for 4 sec. Leaves an aftershock that decreases enemy movement by 30%. Cooldown reduced by 20 sec if it strikes at least 3 targets.

[Borgia]

Having to choose between mobility and utility is just terrible, let alone if it is the only utility you can get, and also the only way to get a decent mobility.
It also makes pvp talents mandatory over other pvp talents depenting what talent you chose previously. If you get double time, shadow of the colossus gains a lot of value, and if you choose utility, death sentence becomes mandatory for extra mobility.

[Tyze]

Having to choose between mobility and utility is just terrible, let alone if it is the only utility you can get, and also the only way to get a decent mobility.
It also makes pvp talents mandatory over other pvp talents depenting what talent you chose previously. If you get double time, shadow of the colossus gains a lot of value, and if you choose utility, death sentence becomes mandatory for extra mobility.

Yeah makes no sense

[Bigbazz]

For Arms it already was utility, so low was the damage. I mean so long as it does damage and you're not GCD capped it always provides a potential dps gain, but as it is in WOD right now that gain might as well be non-existent.. It's not so bad for Fury but we're hardly talking MOP times. So to me it doesn't matter that it's no longer dps, it's annoying that it shares a talent spot with double time though, double time is an ability that I can't do without, but i'l probably have to take Shockwave at some point, maybe even often..

Yeah I don't like having to choose between a stun and mobility, I liked choosing between mobility and mobility as we do currently.

[Artunias]

I could care less about the damage, but I think it's an absolutely brutal choice to make us choose between a stun or double time. Especially with how essential Double Time is for the mobility of the spec. I did like that one build where Storm Bolt was a nuke against bosses again, but o well.

[Haveth]

I could care less about the damage, but I think it's an absolutely brutal choice to make us choose between a stun or double time. Especially with how essential Double Time is for the mobility of the spec. I did like that one build where Storm Bolt was a nuke against bosses again, but o well.

I agree, it's a pretty large PvP problem, and with intervene gone, and heroic leap having to be talented instead of glyped, mobility is looking shaky, especially when you look at that heroic leap talent tier and see it competes with warpaint, which might be the go to talent so you don't get blown up. Warrior self healing keeps getting nerfed, and the bloodthirst heal buff on the artifact just got absolutely gutted recently.

We might be looking at another expansion being an awful dueling class. I sure do wish they would do something about second wind, it's just a poorly designed talent all around.

[Al Gorefiend]

Warrior's talent choices are looking pretty obvious on which ones will be chosen by 99% of players.