any new information on unbreakable armor?

[psicorp]

we all got to be a little curious here, its a flat absorption now, a self cast PWS i guess. but how much armor scaling does it get, and can it absorb magical damage or just physical. any frost tanks going to have to change your strategy? i know quite a few people had relied on it to get them up to armor capped.

[Gomexus]

Talked about this after the news was posted but here's my thoughts:

UBA will absorb X% of armor. Effects lasts 18 seconds and is removed after damage is absorbed or 18 seconds, whichever comes first.


What this will do is create a wannabe Bone Shield for Frost. Bone Shield has a 5 min duration and absorbs 20% of damage from up to 6 attacks (if glyph'd).

Saying you take 10k dmg per hit...Bone Shield will absorb 12k dmg and could potentially last 5mins.
UBA may absorb 100% of armor...meaning around 25-27k dmg which would be nice...but would be like avoiding 2.5 hits...instead of mitigating damage for an entire 18secs.

My only problem is that Blizzard tried to move us away from random spike damage and give us more mitigation...so now they take away an awesome mitigation talent and replace it with an avoidance (might as well be) talent...we also lose the parry/strength which increased threat and rune strike procs...just to avoid a couple extra hits.

I also highly doubt it will absorb 100% of armor...because that's alot of damage to absorb. I'm guessing it will be balanced around Bone Shield...meaning average boss dmg mitigated through Bone Shield will be about the same damage absorbed by UBA.

So if Bone Shield currently mitigates 12k dmg (average) over its 6 charges (glyph'd) then I am willing to bet Bone Shield will absorb 40% of armor value...and the glyph will increase it to 50%...meaning around 12k dmg or so.

The glyph will be important to keep it balanced with Bone Shield...since Bone Shield needs a glyph to absorb that much UBA will as well.

I could be wrong, but that's where my money is on this one.

[Abandon]

Keep in mind they have not said if it is going to be like Power Word:Shield where it will absorb all damage. As far as we know, it could absorb 25% of the damage from each attack until it has absorbed its total amount. That would make it more of a mitigation tool instead of an avoidance tool, as well as making this much more useful on bosses that do magical damage where the extra armour is useless.

[Stieger23]

I'm intrigued by the change. Personally, I liked UA for both tanking and dps (when I'm OT and we only need 1 tank.) The extra strength and armor actually gave a very nice boost to dps on a short cooldown. On the other hand, let's face it, UA was a lackluster pure defensive talent. A small amount of extra parry plus armor was nice, but nowhere near as nice as the deep unholy or deep blood mitigation talents (BS and WotN) and certainly not as nice as Vampiric Blood. If we have to trade some flexibility for a better pure mitigation talent (e.g. Essence of Gossamer Plus), that would be fairly worthwhile. Additionally, if the effect helps mitigate spell damage I can only see it improving our role against bosses with heavy but infrequent breath weapons and spell casts.

[Raptorg]

According to a poster, who claims to have some kind of inside information(lol), on DK.info.

The new Unbreakable Armor will absorb a set amount of damage(or percentage?), on each source of damage taken.

So assuming you absorb 20% damage(or 2000 damage), each 10k hit, becomes a 8k hit, for the next 20 seconds.

So it doesn't fade after taking a set amount of damage(like PW:S).

And it should work on magical damage, as well as physical.


The numbers in this post are merely picked to show how it works, nobody knows the exact mechanics and scaling on how much damage is absorbed on each strike/spell.

[Stieger23]

According to a poster, who claims to have some kind of inside information(lol), on DK.info.

The new Unbreakable Armor will absorb a set amount of damage(or percentage?), on each source of damage taken.

So assuming you absorb 20% damage(or 2000 damage), each 10k hit, becomes a 8k hit, for the next 20 seconds.

So it doesn't fade after taking a set amount of damage(like PW:S).

And it should work on magical damage, as well as physical.


The numbers in this post are merely picked to show how it works, nobody knows the exact mechanics and scaling on how much damage is absorbed on each strike/spell.

I am by no means calling you a liar or calling you out. You're just quoting somebody, and thank you for passing on the information.

However, I highly doubt this is what's going to happen. What's described above is exactly like IBF except it scales with armor instead of defense. Having two identical mechanics on two different cool downs makes absolutely no sense what so ever. I call shenanigans on this "inside info."

[Raptorg]

Well, perhaps. Perhaps not.

How different in UBA from IBF now?

Not very, except UBA only reduces physical damage(which is actually kinda fail).


I'm sure the point of this change is to allow frosties to mitigate magical damage, instead of just physical.

Plus, it helps with the armor cap, because everything above it, is just wasted.
So, I'm fairly sure this might be the way they want it as it fixed:

-Lack of on demand magical damage reduction.
-Going over the armor cap, potentially weakening the ability under certain conditions.


It all makes sense to me.
Besides, nobody said UBA will lose its strength and parry. So it's not exactly the same as IBF.

[Gomexus]

I agree with Steiger23 that the above "insider info" is probably wrong...it is very much like IBF and just seems odd to have two abilities do roughly the same thing.

After reading through the replies it may turn out a little differently than I first thought, I was more or less turning UBA into a AMZ for physical damage...it absorbs dmg until a certain amount based on armor is reached then it fades...seems like a logical step imo. UH is kind of the "anti-magic" tree as far as tanking goes with Imp AMS and AMZ and Bone Shield affecting all types of dmg...Frost is a little more physical with Frigid Dreadplate, UBA, and Lichborne; although frost does get frost aura and acclimation...

One reason I doubt it will absorb a %, last 18seconds, and fade when a certain amount is reached is because that makes it almost exactly like bone shield...just sans charges.

Unbreakable Armor

Absorbs 20% of all incoming damage until X damage is absorbed or effect expires. Lasts 18 seconds.

X will be % of armor...so if they make it 50% of armor it absorbs roughly 12-13k damage..at 20% per hit it's roughly 6 hits from a 10k damage source...which is exactly like Bone Shield, it just has a fixed duration instead of charges; so maybe that's how it will be done...but it's akin to the IBF argument above, why make the same ability and put it deep in two different trees?

Imo a PW:S type may not be so bad all in all. It makes us take a bit more spike damage again...but it also makes for some smart CD usage...especially if it affects magic damage. I'm thinking Breath Weapons with UBA and AMS both absorbing almost all the damage and IBF still left for the remainder of the CD's between the two.

I guess we'll have to wait to hear more after the test realm starts up and we get some preliminary feedback from testers...but this could be a very good change...or a "meh" change...either way I think Frost tanks will still be picking it up.

[Raptorg]

The break point between BS and this "supposed" IBA would be the strength and parry.

But I doubt it will be a flat PW:S. Because honestly, that would suck.

[Stieger23]

The break point between BS and this "supposed" IBA would be the strength and parry.

But I doubt it will be a flat PW:S. Because honestly, that would suck.

I hope it won't be a flat PW:S. I sort of doubt it will be too, since it will make us spikier.

Honestly, I suspect we're going to end up with a partial damage reduction up to a cap/time. It would be more like BS and less like IBF. Rather than limiting based on "hits" have it limited on "damage absorbed." I highly doubt it would be "like IBF (already one of the best abilities in the game) EXCEPT it also gives you strength and parry"

[Raptorg]

Well, I figure UBA wouldn't reach 50% damage reduction numbers.

I suppose it would be more like 30% when armor capped and 20% when you have "normal" armor.
Rough guesses, ofcourse. But I very much doubt it will reach IBF numbers, because of the aforemention reason.

[Rowen]

Well, there are several alternatives as how they can implement it:

-a PW:S like ability

-a PW:S like ability with max number of attacks/charges (like bone shield)

-a Bone shield-like ability, where UBA absorbs a flat % of incoming damage

-a Bone shield-like ability, where UBA absorbs a flat % of incoming damage, with max number of attacks (like bone shield)

-a Bone shield-like ability, where UBA absorbs a flat % of incoming damage, with maximum quantity of damage absorbed

-a block-like ability, where UBA absorbs a fixed quantity of incoming damage (not actually fixed since it'd depend on armor)

-a block-like ability, where UBA absorbs a fixed quantity of incoming damage, with max number of attacks "blocked"

-a block-like ability, where UBA absorbs a fixed quantity of incoming damage, with maximum quantity of damage absorbed

[taek]

My guess is that it will be a more powerful version of Essence of Gossamer:

Equip: When struck in combat has a chance of shielding you in a protective barrier which will reduces damage from each attack by 140, up to a total of 4000 damage absorbed. Lasts 10 secs.

So theoretically the new UBA will reduce damage from each attack up to X points (X scales with armor stat) for its duration.

This would effectively give UBA block-like mitigation for short periods of time.

However, I highly doubt this is what's going to happen. What's described above is exactly like IBF except it scales with armor instead of defense. Having two identical mechanics on two different cool downs makes absolutely no sense what so ever. I call shenanigans on this "inside info."

I don't think the new UBA will be using the % reduction mechanic either, but this is an MMO, identical mechanics are hardly rare.

Two hunter talents:

Unleashed Fury Rank 5
Increases the damage done by your pets by 15%.

Kindred Spirits Rank 5
Increases your pet's damage by 15% and you and your pet's movement speed by 10%

[Gamehenge]

It better absorb more than 20% physical damage if it is going to break after set amount. Currently when glyphed it reduces incoming damage by a further 19-20% or so, but has the potential of mitigating an infinite amount of damage in that 20 second time frame.

If they do something like 20% damage with a maximum of half your armor or so, they better not put a timer on it or else you'll only get full use of it if your avoidance sucks. I'm getting a bit worried now about UBA, as the only reason bone shield is very good is the fact that you can extend the time it's up. If it had a timer on it, it would really suck, which is what UBA would be like if it was 20 seconds with a maximum absorb of 15k or so.

I hope blizz doesn't fuck this up, cause atleast right now UBA is good against mob packs, while still being pretty good against single targets. The PW:S idea has the potential to be real shitty.

[Stieger23]

It better absorb more than 20% physical damage if it is going to break after set amount. Currently when glyphed it reduces incoming damage by a further 19-20% or so, but has the potential of mitigating an infinite amount of damage in that 20 second time frame.

If they do something like 20% damage with a maximum of half your armor or so, they better not put a timer on it or else you'll only get full use of it if your avoidance sucks. I'm getting a bit worried now about UBA, as the only reason bone shield is very good is the fact that you can extend the time it's up. If it had a timer on it, it would really suck, which is what UBA would be like if it was 20 seconds with a maximum absorb of 15k or so.

I hope blizz doesn't fuck this up, cause atleast right now UBA is good against mob packs, while still being pretty good against single targets. The PW:S idea has the potential to be real shitty.

I totally agree with the main thrust of your post. However, I would like to point out a flaw in your logic. Notice the part a bolded? The closer that percent gets to 100, the nearer the mechanic becomes to a PW:S. That's something we all agree would probably not be in our best interests as far as becoming "less spiky" to heal.

[Stieger23]

Actually, now that I've been had an opportunity to think about it, if I had a choice between an ability that absorbed a large % of damage with a short probable life expectancy and a low-level of consistent over a long period, I know which one I would pick. Of course this idea is predicated on not having an excessively short duration.

Imagine something like this:

Short CD (~1 min)
Longer Duration (~30sec - 1 min)
Damage mitigation cap at <33% of armor value
Mitigates ~10% of damage taken per hit.

Obviously this would have to be pretty deep in frost and would doubtless need some serious tweaking to make it not absurdly OP in PVP. But rather than taking the idea in a direction similar to "another IBF" or something close to PW:S, think long, stable mitigation. It would scale well with avoidance and reduce the spiky damage problem.

[Abandon]

Keep in mind when comparing them that the old Unbreakable Armour was completely and utterly useless against magic.

[taek]

Currently when glyphed it reduces incoming damage by a further 19-20% or so, but has the potential of mitigating an infinite amount of damage in that 20 second time frame.

Maybe i don't understand UBA mechanics, but i'm not getting anywhere close to those damage reduction #s.

Assuming (just for sake of example) a DK with 29k armor, damage reduction is 63.5% vs L83 mob.

29000 / (29000 + 16635) = .63547

With glyphed UBA on, i assume armor is (29000 * 1.4) = 40600

So the post UBA damage reduction is 70.9%.

40600 / (40600 + 16635) = .70935

Or an increase of + 7.4%. And in reality, you don't get that much because you'll hit the armor cap because of Inspiration from a priest. And as mentioned, it's 100% useless vs magic.

UBA is fairly weak compared to bone shield or vampiric blood. I still use it every CD, but i wish it would be on par with its sister talents in the other trees. Hopefully the 3.1 version will get it in the ballpark.

[Amandi]

I hope Unbreakable armor is changed to be more like Bone shield than an AMZ or something...maybe..

Unbreakable Armor

Instant 1 minute cooldown
Reduces damage taken by 25% from all sources and increases your Strength and Parry by 5%. Each damaging attack that lands decreases the amount absorbed by 5%. Lasts 5 minutes.

But reading what blizzard wrote, I.E

"Unbreakable Armor now absorbs a flat amount of damage that increases as your armor increases. It no longer boosts armor."

It seems more like an Essence of Gossemer thing.

Unbreakable Armor

Instant 1 minute cooldown
You are protected by Unbreakable Armor, reducing damage taken from all sources by 25%, increased by your armor. Increases your Strength by 10% and your Parry chance by 5%. Lasts 18 seconds.

At least that's what it would have to be to step up against Bone Shield

[psicorp]

I hope Unbreakable armor is changed to be more like Bone shield than an AMZ or something...maybe..

Unbreakable Armor

Instant 1 minute cooldown
Reduces damage taken by 25% from all sources and increases your Strength and Parry by 5%. Each damaging attack that lands decreases the amount absorbed by 5%. Lasts 5 minutes.

eh heh, thats more like the slowly breaking armor, doncha think?