Raiding Professions 3.2

[Luciendar]

With Patch 3.2 drawing near, and bringing some significant changes to both, Talents and Professions, i am thinking which the "new" Raiding professions might be.

Currently i play as a Main retribution specced Paladin with some decent Second gear fulfulling the role of Off-Tank in some 10 / 25man Instances, mainly Ulduar 25 ofc .

Having once Chosen Herbalism and Alchemy, i reconcidered this choise as Herbalism was not "efficient" enough to be a Main-Raiding Characters profession and instead i chose Jewelcrafting.

So here i stand, Alchemist and Jewelcrafter, both maxed out and i am concidering again wether it is a wise decision to drop Alchemy and learn Enchanting instead.

Based on some theorycrafting, some forum reading and some comparision with the worlds most sucessful Raiders ( members of Guilds as eu-magtheridon Ensidia, eu-sylvanas Method, eu-aegwynn Refuge ), i noticed that an notable amount of raiding Ret-Paladins as well as quite a lot of melee DPS classes chose Ench-JC as their professions.

There are also a decent amount of JC-BS, JC-Alch, but mainly Ench-Jc.

My question is:
Which are the upcoming "FotM" professions regarding raid preformance mainly, and as a nice sidegreade money makeing ones.

I dont play on the PTR, so those of you who do, and feel themself competent enough to answer are highly welcome. Trolls are also welcome but only in small numbers

[arel00]

Blacksmithing and Enchanting give identical bonuses with 3.2. Blacksmithing is slightly better (due to using strength gems instead of AP enchants) and slightly more capable of customization, which isn't any big deal most of time since you tend to max out it.

Thing is, Enchanting is a better money maker. So if you want to keep that in mind too, go for Enchanting. And of course keep Jewelcrafting.

[Luciendar]

▲
▲▲ Triforce Bump

[bbr]

Posted this a couple days ago: (Click for full three-specs list)
* http://rrvs.blogspot.com/2009/07/slo...ofessions.html

It's not specifically aimed at paladins, but should still help you with your question.

* Jewelcrafting - 42 strength/agility - (3x 32 agi instead of 3x 20 agi)
* Engineering - (41,1 stat value) 68 haste (equals about 61,2 agi), 1 agi, -44 ap - (+23 agi -22 agility on cloak, -44 ap +68 haste on gloves. As well as an occasional boost in runspeed.) - Mind, haste isn't nearly as strong as agility, so it's use is very situational and class dependant.
* Blacksmithing - 40 strength/agility - (2x 20agi epic gems in extra sockets)
* Inscription - 80 attack power - (+80 ap vs epic Sons of hodir enchant)
* Leatherworking - 80 attack power - (130 AP fur lining vs 50 AP enchant)
* Enchanting - 80 attack power - (40 ap x 2 rings)
* Alchemy - 80 attack power - (260 AP instead of 180 base due to mixology)
* Skinning - 40 crit
* Tailoring - (28 stat value) 100 ap -22 agi - (Assumes 1/4 uptime for swordguard embroidery, 400 ap for 15s out of 60s) - It's poor, really poor. Avoid tailoring as a melee.
* Mining - 60 stamina
* Herbalism - 3600 healing over 5 seconds - Yes it sucks unless you're PvP.

In your case, I'd drop alchemy and pick up blacksmithing instead.

[Adamson]

Jewel crafting and Black smithing are pretty safely the best professions tied together for any class.

[Pokeyzilla]

IMHO, blacksmithing and jewelcrafting are the best professions for retribution paladins. I just dropped herbalism yesterday and started the expensive process of leveling blacksmithing, but in the end the gains will be worth the effort. (given the cost of Belt of the Titans, leveling a profession isn't that out of line) When I surveyed all the top retribution paladins across servers, the BS/JC combination appears on 90% of the best of the best. That's the way I'm going.

[thumbwarriordx]

with the addition of flask of the north, there isn't enough reason to drop alchemy for anything stats wise.
all the professions are basically the same, except engineering, you'll be able to transmute your own epic gems.

blacksmithing would be a slight improvement but enchanting wouldn't get you much.

in short, there are only minimal advantages to switching, and it isn't worth your time.

[Adamson]

For rets JC and BS are hands down better because they're the only options with strength. The AP counter-parts are not nearly as powerful.

[Raiss]

Alch is very money server, due 2 hours flask. And it is the best prof for a healer, Crazy Alchemist Potions are just insanely good (4k mana + 4kmana/wildmagic/speed potion)

[Lark]

If you are using the phrase 'moneymaker' alongside 'raiding profession' you're doing it wrong. Especially when we're talking about someone dropping a profession to optimize their character.

Count the number of times you wiped on a boss who was at 1% and you will have the number of times switching from alchemy to whatever might have mattered. If you can't, then don't worry about it.

(I am BS+JC)

[thumbwarriordx]

I'm a JC-enchanter myself and the main reason is convenience. you only need other people for your leg armor/spellthread.

the only profession worth rerolling to for you would be blacksmithing.

from what I know you'd be gaining about 16 AP, I'm not even sure that amounts to 1 percent of a boss over the course of a fight.

for this you would pay: the immense price of time and gold rerolling, which might not be so immense depending how you do it.
2 more epic gems, and you'll go through double the flasks you currently do.

it is better, by a bit. but at great cost.
if you're willing to go through that for a minor gain so you can be perfectly min/maxed, you're a far more dedicated player than I am.

[Adamson]

it's not a cost thing. It's a display of you caring about how much damage you do. That you take pride in being the best at what you do.

My GM and enhancement shaman is a JC/BS.

What good is Blacksmithing to a shaman?

It's not.

Besides the extra sockets. He picked to level BS after being a miner/JC since BC because he knows what's the best. And if you want to be the best you can, you have to do everything.

It's like trying to be a good raiding melee dps and being too cheap to buy greatness. If you want to be a respectable player you make those "sacrifices" and do the little things that separate you from the casuals.

[Offhand]

Jewel crafting and Black smithing are pretty safely the best professions tied together for any class.

With tailoring beating out BS for caster classes.

Anyway, if the OP is doing ret main/prot off your best set up is JC/BS. Simple reason being that they are the only two professions that can provide strength bonuses instead of AP. Likewise, the JC gems are balanced slightly higher then other crafting professions in 3.2 (at least the stamina ones are).

[thumbwarriordx]

we're talking about 16 AP, that's just over 1 weapon dps. in this game nothing is negligible. but that's not far off.

regardless, my main point was don't reroll to enchanting. which everyone can agree on.

[Adamson]

With tailoring beating out BS for caster classes.

Correct.

[bbr]

we're talking about 16 AP, that's just over 1 weapon dps. in this game nothing is negligible. but that's not far off.

regardless, my main point was don't reroll to enchanting. which everyone can agree on.

Not quite.

14 AP = 1 weapon DPS.

however...
2 AP = 1 effective dps, due to instant attacks and other attacks benefitting from AP.
For a rogue at any rate.
So 16 = about 8 effective dps.

you can complain about 1-2 ap not giving much, but all the little bits add up in the end.
more = better

[Asrial]

Blacksmithing and Enchanting give identical bonuses with 3.2. Blacksmithing is slightly better (due to using strength gems instead of AP enchants) and slightly more capable of customization, which isn't any big deal most of time since you tend to max out it.

Thing is, Enchanting is a better money maker. So if you want to keep that in mind too, go for Enchanting. And of course keep Jewelcrafting.

Kinda does the trick. Pretty good professions mentioned, though i use the later used enchanting/JC for max money and raiding skillz.

[Adamson]

Kinda does the trick. Pretty good professions mentioned, though i use the later used enchanting/JC for max money and raiding skillz.

Money shouldn't be a deciding factor when maxing your raiding capability.

There's maximum, and not quite maximum

[Luciendar]

Money shouldn't be a deciding factor when maxing your raiding capability.

There's maximum, and not quite maximum

Thread Revival

The point is, that one must also keep in mind that raiding is not the only time consumeing part of the game, instead one must see that raiding's " big brother" named Farming, keeps an significant role.

As mentioned earlier, Alchemy provides a quite nice buff concidering Time spend farming Frost Loti but is not that big of a mony maker, more a mony saver.

Enchanting gives the biggest Debuff to farming imho, as it keeps the most expensive materials, Abyssal shards, Powder and those other things i forgot coming in a quite constant flow, and with every new contentpatch one can disenchant the old gear and use the shards to enchant the new ones

Blacksmithing, as much as i favour this quite epic profession as a "must have" for any warrior class ( lore wise ), it takes the most efford to bring it to 450 and in comparison to time <> efford the least advantage.

I apologize ahead of time for this wall of text, just want to clear up why this was made and why it does not get the Mixology buff to anyone who may not yet understand.

The idea behind this flask is to basically give alchemists the same bonus as every other profession gets as a passive.
For example, enchanters get Enchant Ring - Assault, and assuming they put it on both rings they get an 80 AP bonus all the time. This flask gives 80 AP and is never consumed so it is the same bonus and you only need to pay for it once. This flask is not affected by Mixology because that would break the balance greatly in the favor of the alchemist ( I am an alchemist for the record :P ) giving a greater advantage to us is the arena.

In raids and such clearly enchanters still have their ring enchants AND can drink flasks while we can't use both at the same time, which is why we have Mixology. Flask of Endless Rage gives 180 AP, and with Mixology in 3.2 the bonus becomes 260 AP. In short Mixology is our passive raid bonus, giving us the same increase in stats as the corresponding equivalent in other professions ( Assuming they have one, for example only jewelcrafting and alchemy have a spirit bonus item ) while allowing us to maintain flexibility. An enchanter can't enchant his rings with haste, and a leather worker doesn't have a fur lining for hit rating, an alchemist on the other hand can drink potions that give any range of these skills AND can mix combos for some interesting choices while retaining the option to change these bonuses at any time ( only downside is elixirs don't persist through death, but they are are quite inexpensive if you also have herbalism ).

Blizzard has been working to balance the primary professions as much as possible, and has come very close for most of them. In fact from my research the only professions that are not in line ( Jewelcrafting and Tailoring ) are actually more powerful when compared to the rest. I did not compare them to engineering however because the bonuses gained from it are of a much more subjective value and almost impossible to quantify directly. ( Also I want to tell all JC to stop complaining about the change in 3.2, gems losing prismatic quality is hardly reason to declare jewelcrafting as completely destroyed, your bonus is actually a little higher then most and is the highest of the fixed stat bonuses XD )

*
Enchanting 40 AP Enchant Ring - Assault + 40 AP Enchant Ring - Assault + 180 AP Flask of Endless Rage = 260 AP
*
Enchanting (Arena): 40 AP Enchant Ring - Assault + 40 AP Enchant Ring - Assault = 80 AP

*
Blacksmithing: 40 AP Socket Bracer ( Bright Cardinal Ruby ) + 40 AP Socket Gloves ( Bright Cardinal Ruby ) + 180 AP Flask of Endless Rage = 260 AP
*
Blacksmithing (Arena): 40 AP Socket Bracer ( Bright Cardinal Ruby ) + 40 AP Socket Gloves ( Bright Cardinal Ruby ) = 80 AP

*
Inscription: 80 AP Master's Inscription of the Axe ( Note: Taking into account Greater Inscription of the Axe ) + 180 AP Flask of Endless Rage = 260 AP
*
Inscription (Arena): 80 AP Master's Inscription of the Axe = 80 AP

*
Leatherworking: 80 AP Fur Lining - Attack Power ( Note: Taking into account Enchant Bracers- Greater Assault ) + 180 AP Flask of Endless Rage = 260 AP
*
Leatherworking (Arena):80 AP Fur Lining - Attack Power = 80 AP

*
Jewelcrafting: 28 AP Bright Dragon's Eye ( Note: Taking into account Bright Cardinal Ruby ) + 28 AP Bright Dragon's Eye + 28 AP Bright Dragon's Eye +180 AP Flask of Endless Rage = 264
*
Jewelcrafting (Arena): 28 AP Bright Dragon's Eye + 28 AP Bright Dragon's Eye + 28 AP Bright Dragon's Eye = 84 AP

*
Tailoring: Equivalent Approx. 133 AP Swordguard Embroidery (Note: 25% proc rate, 45 second ICD) + 180 AP Flask of Endless Rage = Approx. 313 AP
*
Tailoring (Arena): Equivalent Approx. 133 AP Swordguard Embroidery = Approx. 133 AP

Tailoring Note: actual value may be lower depending on class and cloak enchant ( Example: 22 agility on rogue/shaman/cat druid = 22 AP )

*
Alchemy: 180 AP Flask of Endless Rage + 80 AP Mixology = 260 AP
*
Alchemy (Arena) 80 AP Flask of the North = 80 AP

As you can see, the overall balance from profession only bonuses are actually quite balanced, I also have the numbers from many other stats ( SP, agility, strength, ect ), though it is mostly only the offensive based stats that are factored in on the profession balance, with things such as stamina stacking being more powerful in other professions. It is also important to note that this is just comparing the direct passive bonuses ( alchemy's isn't technically passive ). There are other bonuses to take into account such as the alchemists endless healing and mana potions which are also getting a nice 3.2 buff/nerf.

(source : http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=47499#comments by Soreth )

Pointing out the most important thing here:

Blacksmithing: 40 AP Socket Bracer ( Bright Cardinal Ruby ) + 40 AP Socket Gloves ( Bright Cardinal Ruby ) + 180 AP Flask of Endless Rage = 260 AP

Jewelcrafting: 28 AP Bright Dragon's Eye ( Note: Taking into account Bright Cardinal Ruby ) + 28 AP Bright Dragon's Eye + 28 AP Bright Dragon's Eye +180 AP Flask of Endless Rage = 264 AP

Enchanting 40 AP Enchant Ring - Assault + 40 AP Enchant Ring - Assault + 180 AP Flask of Endless Rage = 260 AP


this plus


Alchemy: 180 AP Flask of Endless Rage + 80 AP Mixology = 260 AP

It seems like all the professions provide now the same buff and vary only in the time saving component ( with JC still being slightly better )

[Whoopzz]

As stated in previous posts, for effective stats, BS and JC are the best. Personally, I roll with enchanting/JC. IMHO the extra few attack power isn't worth the hassle of not having an enchanter.

And lets be honest, if you don't have any of the Ulduar plans, how much work are you getting right now? People constantly need enchants.