The Problem ((As I see it))

[Skyrim]

In ICC everyone said it was stupid that the LK waited until we killed his army and his generals to fight us, but truth be told i've played a LOT of games in the past and well every "raid" boss every "end game" boss every "super special awesome boss" does the same thing "oh no you killed my forces"+(and excuse for letting you kill them<optional>) then we fight. And to be honest I've played wow for a long time and it's not the lore that bores me, it's not the boss mechn., it's not the challenge, it's that it always seems like it HAS to follow that structure and to be honest every game out there does it too. So I don't know it might be just me anyone kinda know what I'm talking about?

TLTR:Why not a villain that says fuck it army v raid.?
advice before posting:<LOOK AT THE SIG BEFORE YOU SAY I HAVEN'T KILL LK> [sorry for caps but some people are blind]

[Ashrana]

Because if Villians where smart they would win.

[Skyrim]

Because if Villians where smart they would win.

Well the Alliance and the Horde have smart guys why not let faction armies help the players in a realistic fight against a decently smart villain? Just a though

[Vixan]

dunno if a 25 man raid could handle all the bosses+trash :P. The whole point of having the main villain towards the end is incentive to clearing content which the game developers have put time and effort into. If LK was first boss in ICC would you really wanna keep pushing hard for Marrowgar?

[Skyrim]

dunno if a 25 man raid could handle all the bosses+trash :P. The whole point of having the main villain towards the end is incentive to clearing content which the game developers have put time and effort into. If LK was first boss in ICC would you really wanna keep pushing hard for Marrowgar?

I know lore wise and structure wise it makes sense I just don't know I've been playing vid games for a very long time and it just seems so degrading of a villain

[Ashrana]

Well the Alliance and the Horde have smart guys why not let faction armies help the players in a realistic fight against a decently smart villain? Just a though

Well then we would just end up with huge battles between the Scourge and the Alliance / Horde. This would be nice to look at but also very boring for the players since they have to do less. Also it would probably kill some PCs. If you want big battles go play a RTS game.

Villians have to make stupid dicisions, or there would be no way we can beat them. All vilians are pictured as nearly impossible to defeat. And they have to be, or it wouldn't be an achievement if you finaly beat them.

[Daemaro]

Well think of it this way, the "Im gonna send out my army and kill everyone" part is over. That happened in WOTLK with all the zones. We see scourge everywhere and scourge bosses in many instances, and destroyed towns. So he probably doesn't have much left to fight with except what was in ICC. I mean sure he could have had all of ICC fight us at once, but they might even hurt one another with their AoE. :P

[Epar]

dunno if a 25 man raid could handle all the bosses+trash :P. The whole point of having the main villain towards the end is incentive to clearing content which the game developers have put time and effort into. If LK was first boss in ICC would you really wanna keep pushing hard for Marrowgar?

Does he still drop loot?

[Skyrim]

Well then we would just end up with huge battles between the Scourge and the Alliance / Horde. This would be nice to look at but also very boring for the players since they have to do less. Also it would probably kill some PCs. If you want big battles go play a RTS game.

Villians have to make stupid dicisions, or there would be no way we can beat them. All vilians are pictured as nearly impossible to defeat. And they have to be, or it wouldn't be an achievement if you finaly beat them.

lol then it wouldn't surprise you if I told you I didn't buy vanilla WoW because I was pissed Blizz didn't make a Warcraft 4

[Ashrana]

Not very surprising indeed :P However the battles in warcraft are still rather small compared to, let say, the total war series. Its looking better for SC2 tough

[grimkiller]

In ICC everyone said it was stupid that the LK waited until we killed his army and his generals to fight us, but truth be told i've played a LOT of games in the past and well every "raid" boss every "end game" boss every "super special awesome boss" does the same thing "oh no you killed my forces"+(and excuse for letting you kill them<optional>) then we fight. And to be honest I've played wow for a long time and it's not the lore that bores me, it's not the boss mechn., it's not the challenge, it's that it always seems like it HAS to follow that structure and to be honest every game out there does it too. So I don't know it might be just me anyone kinda know what I'm talking about?

TLTR:Why not a villain that says fuck it army v raid.?

If it's all of the LKs army, then our raids wouldn't be limited to 10/25 people.
How epic would it be to fight all of the ICC bosses at once in a 500 person raid?
I would definitely roll in there on my DPS toons.
Could you imagine healing that?

[Cliste]

ICC would be so much more fun if LK was first boss and then the rest of the bosses optional.... wait

[Skyrim]

ICC would be so much more fun if LK was first boss and then the rest of the bosses optional.... wait

That's not what I'm suggesting more like TBC 3 bosses encounter with the generals of the Scourge at Arthas side or something like that kinda like the council at Kaels side and the rest of the bosses working together like instead of the plague wing, Prof. P with festergut and rotface fighting with him with some aboms and ghouls, idk all the video games in history use the final boss method and I don't know it's getting old

[Arkol]

I would like to see a raid where there's just an onslaught war going on, have bosses scattered throughout the fight and have your 10/25 man raid running around as a task force taking out the bosses during the war, maybe pushing the waves of enemies back revealing more bosses and such.

[moguri]

I think the OP (and most other people) haven't seen the LK fight so they don't understand that it doesn't follow this model. He isn't giving you a pass to kill his leaders because he can't be bothered with you. Its actually quite the opposite. He's cultivating our "heroes." Killing your way through ICC is proving your worthiness. If you failed and died, then its no biggie for him, if you have slain all his top generals, then you have passed his gauntlet. Its a giant test because he saw potential in you.

Even during the LK encounter he is toying with you to see your strengths. At the end, when he's done playing his game, guess what? He aoe kills the entire raid. Then he's thanks Tirion for delivering his greatest generals. By defeating Putricide, Sindragosa, Blood Queen you are proving you will be even more powerful in Undeath then they were. So he instant-kills you, showing his true power, then begins raising you as undead to become his new leaders which will dominate the world.

Its only by divine intervention that you live. Tirion gets strength from the light and shatters frostmourne, and Ashbringer along with Terenis are the ones who finally deliver the killing blows.

[Skyrim]

I would like to see a raid where there's just an onslaught war going on, have bosses scattered throughout the fight and have your 10/25 man raid running around as a task force taking out the bosses during the war, maybe pushing the waves of enemies back revealing more bosses and such.

that sounds like WAR-craft

[Nodja]

You haven't killed the LK yet have you?

SPOILER ALERT

The Lich King casts Fury of Frostmourne, killing all players at once.
The Lich King yells: No question remains unanswered. No doubts linger. You are Azeroth's greatest champions! You overcame every challenge I laid before you. My mightiest servants have fallen before your relentless onslaught, your unbridled fury... Is it truly righteousness that drives you? I wonder.
The Lich King yells: You trained them well, Fordring. You delivered the greatest fighting force this world has ever known... right into my hands -- exactly as I intended. You shall be rewarded for your unwitting sacrifice.
The Lich King begins to cast a resurrection spell.
The Lich King yells: Watch now as I raise them from the dead to become masters of the Scourge. They will shroud this world in chaos and destruction. Azeroth's fall will come at their hands -- and you will be the first to die.
The Lich King laughs.
The Lich King yells: I delight in the irony.

[Skyrim]

I think the OP (and most other people) haven't seen the LK fight so they don't understand that it doesn't follow this model. He isn't giving you a pass to kill his leaders because he can't be bothered with you. Its actually quite the opposite. He's cultivating our "heroes." Killing your way through ICC is proving your worthiness.

You didn't even bother looking at my sig did you LMFAO I'm 11/12 25man HM bro, and ya like I said lore wise and structure wise it makes sense but like I put in the OP <excuse why he let you kill them> every boss in every game does it. Arthas isn't the first just saying it's feeling old to me

[Skyrim]

You haven't killed the LK yet have you?

<again look at the sig I'm 11/12 25man HM bro>
and that's again an excuse for letting you kill his army I don't care if the lore backs it all the bosses in every game have some excuse

[Ashrana]

I think the OP (and most other people) haven't seen the LK fight so they don't understand that it doesn't follow this model.
<snap>

Please note the sig of the OP.