What am i ready to Tank??

[ascallion]

Hey all

This is my first Tank class, i have been running hc's for a while now my aggro is fine even against well geared players, but i have low hp for raids, got removed from
a Ony 10 for low hp and ToC10 too, i get over 40khp buffed, is this too low or are ppl being picky and wanting to overpower raids ?

Here is my charas link all advice will be taken on board

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ht&cn=Devonish

[Edwin VanCleef]

If your going to duel-wield tank you should be using dps weapons, not tanking ones

[Seregon]

You're perfectly fine for entry level ICC. If you don't want to get kicked. Don't pug. People tend to demand more than necessary in pugs to make up for the fact that it's a group of people who don't normally play together, and don't know how they work best together. Thus having to make room for some slack.

Personally I would get the 226 belt and the 213 cloak, both from emblems. But apart from that, you're fine for 4/12 ICC10.

Also this possibly:

If your going to duel-wield tank you should be using dps weapons, not tanking ones

I am not that familiar with DW tanking.

[Deleted]

you are fine geared for totvc10/25 and ony10/25 and some icc.

[Hevlex]

Bad cloak. Get halls of refelctions cloak. bad boots. also can be upgraded to 232 from 1 of that new heroics. waist also able to upgrade at new heroic to 219. but you should be able to tank toc 10 / 25. and onyxia 10 / 25. icc not readyd yet. try to get 60 icc badge trinket asap. for stam upgrade. and if u get removed from toc 10 / 25 make your own raids. people are pricks.

[ascallion]

Yea thanks for the positive advise, the belt is next on my list just a few emblems away, been trying HoR normal for a cloak but it never drops for me,

about the DW weapons i have 2 x Nighttime in mt bag ill use when threat starts to become an issue, atm its not

[mhp]

about the DW weapons i have 2 x Nighttime in mt bag ill use when threat starts to become an issue, atm its not

Use them anyway, unless you're below 535 defense without tank weapons. The stats you gain from the tank weapons are so very close to zero, that you're far better off with a DPS weapon, even if you don't need the threat (in all honesty, you can tank with a level 1 grey weapon and still not have threat issues - been there, done that). Your groups will thank you for it.

[Kpoof]

Go blood for tanking, 6% more stamina, don't gem for parry or defense. OT: Naxx10/25, Ulduar10/25 and ToC10. Probably ICC10 due to the sick 20% buff, but that's not with pugs, only good healers and friends and if you are blood, along with good knowledge of your class.

[Lucarn]

Use them anyway, unless you're below 535 defense without tank weapons. The stats you gain from the tank weapons are so very close to zero, that you're far better off with a DPS weapon, even if you don't need the threat (in all honesty, you can tank with a level 1 grey weapon and still not have threat issues - been there, done that). Your groups will thank you for it.

I Would hardly call it close to 0. The stam difference between 1 Nigthtime and 1 Rimefang's Claw is 28 Stam. Using 2 claws instead of 2 Nighttimes he already gaines 56 Stam which is a lot for a Tank. Then there is all the extra avoidance he is gaining from the tanking stats... So imo, i don't get why people say that using DPS weapons are better for DW tanks... the agi becomes armor? I think the stam bonus is slightly better to have since his HP is a little on the low side.

Anyway... you are ready for raids, but you might be luckier with raids if you gemmed pure stam, since lets face it, thats all people ever look at when they PuG tanks.

[mhp]

I Would hardly call it close to 0. The stam difference between 1 Nigthtime and 1 Rimefang's Claw is 28 Stam. Using 2 claws instead of 2 Nighttimes he already gaines 56 Stam which is a lot for a Tank. Then there is all the extra avoidance he is gaining from the tanking stats... So imo, i don't get why people say that using DPS weapons are better for DW tanks... the agi becomes armor? I think the stam bonus is slightly better to have since his HP is a little on the low side.

The avoidance is close to zero, thanks to our dear friend Diminishing Returns. You get more bang (avoidance, crit, armor, damage vs stamina) for your bucket by using DPS weapons. Besides, if you want stamina, 2h Blood (and/or pvp weapons) is that way ->

[Lucarn]

The avoidance is close to zero, thanks to our dear friend Diminishing Returns. You get more bang (avoidance, crit, armor, damage vs stamina) for your bucket by using DPS weapons. Besides, if you want stamina, 2h Blood (and/or pvp weapons) is that way ->

All tanks love Stam, the reason why people go Frost instead of Blood is usually for the play style. I have played both Blood and Frost, and i prefer Forst by a clear mile.

What you are saying is basically... If you have defence cap, put on DPS gear because it gives you more Damage, due to diminishing returns making the "Tanking" stats for a tank non favourable.

[mhp]

What you are saying is basically... If you have defence cap, put on DPS gear because it gives you more Damage, due to diminishing returns making the "Tanking" stats for a tank non favourable.

If you think I'm saying that, you clearly have no idea how DKs work. But yeah, once you can survive everything the game throws at you, you can switch out tank gear for DPS gear, sure. I do that all the time in heroics.

Until then, the best road is to gear properly, which includes DPS weapons, since those give you more stuff. Yes, slightly less stamina (unless you use two slow pvp weapons, which are pretty awesome for tanking, if I might say so), but more damage, more armor, and only slightly less defensive stats.

I mean, on one hand, I have 500 hp and about 0.1% avoidance. On the other side, I have twice the damage, 250 armor and 0.5% crit. I'll have the second, thank you.

[ascallion]

i have swaped to 2 x Nightime now and i know i can get more stam from blood spec but i disslike the playstile, kinda sucks as its gonna be the only tank spec soon;-)

yea i may swap my gems to pure stam should make a big diff, my thinking with gemming for defence / dodge is that its better to have lower hp and not to get hit at all

than have more hp and get hit alot.

but i guess that not what ppl look for when pugging

[mhp]

i have swaped to 2 x Nightime now and i know i can get more stam from blood spec but i disslike the playstile, kinda sucks as its gonna be the only tank spec soon;-)

It's not that bad. The playstyle will be very different (hopefully for the better) :P

[ascallion]

i also have a relentless pvp cloak the ilevel245 which gives me loads more stam should i use it or stick with the one i got?

[Dethric]

yea i may swap my gems to pure stam should make a big diff, my thinking with gemming for defence / dodge is that its better to have lower hp and not to get hit at all than have more hp and get hit alot.

but i guess that not what ppl look for when pugging

Although you will never "not get hit at all" (if you don't play warr/pally and count blocking as not getting hit) due to diminishing returns.
The small percentage of dodge you gain from gemming for it will be less than the health you would gain, and since mana is not a problem and overhealing is already at 50%+ on tank healers, it's better to make sure that you give healers as much room as possible in the worst case scenario (in other words, when RNG fails you).
Also, dodge/parry dosn't do anything against magic damage, which there is plenty of.

[Lucarn]

If you think I'm saying that, you clearly have no idea how DKs work. But yeah, once you can survive everything the game throws at you, you can switch out tank gear for DPS gear, sure. I do that all the time in heroics.

Until then, the best road is to gear properly, which includes DPS weapons, since those give you more stuff. Yes, slightly less stamina (unless you use two slow pvp weapons, which are pretty awesome for tanking, if I might say so), but more damage, more armor, and only slightly less defensive stats.

I mean, on one hand, I have 500 hp and about 0.1% avoidance. On the other side, I have twice the damage, 250 armor and 0.5% crit. I'll have the second, thank you.

I will Agree with you that i too jump into DPS gear for HCs for nice quick runs, but this guy is talking about tanking raids with his current gear.

Not too sure where you are pulled those numbers from... so i decided to quickly check them on my DK with Bonebreaker Scepter and Frost Giant's Cleaver. Both with Nerubian Carapace on of course.

Differences from changing one Scepter for a Cleaver.

HP -490
Armor +124 (0.1% Reduced Physical Damage)
Dodge -0.24%
Parry -0.24%
Attack Power +14
Crit Chance +1.98%

So basically... if i was DW DPS weapons instead of Tank weapons at ilvl251 I would lose 980hp, 0.48% dodge and 0.48% parry, for 0.2% reduced Physical damage taken a pretty insignificant 28 Attack Power and i will agree, quite alot of Crit and some Armor Penetration. As a tank I couldn't really care less about how much damage i do in a Raid, it will be pretty insignificant compared to the Actual DPSers, so i would prefer the 980HP over the 0.2% reduced Physical Damage please. Everyone to their own i guess.

[Zao]

I'll let mhp defend dps weapons mostly, but just wanted to say that the reason you take DPS weapons is because they are (mostly) slow. And the difference between a 1.5 and a 2.6 weapon in damage is quite significant.

and @ OP, instead of running HoR nh you could also get the 213 Emblem of Valor Cloak.
Not quite as good as the one from HoR, but better than the PvP cloak you currently have.

[SilkforCalde]

I've been gearing up my DK to tank and after one week, I've already tanked ToC 10 + 25, Malygos 10, VoA 10 + 25, and the first wing in ICC 10. So basically, I'm pretty confident that I can give you some quality advice into how you should progress forward from this point. I had 39.8k unbuffed when I started tanking raids after my initial gearing phase.

Some pieces you should be prepared to upgrade ASAP:

Belt - you have two options. I bought the 226 badge belt because I crafted a lot of other gear, but the 226 crafted belt is dramatically superior. If you have a few hundred gold, it's worth it.

Boots - yours have block value. This means you should replace them ASAP. Best option is to get the 226 crafted boots. You can also run Heroic Forge of Souls until you get the Black Spire Sabatons from Devourer of Souls.

Ring - a good option would be to rep farm the trash in ICC until you can buy the friendly Ashen Verdict ring. I did a bit of that yesterday so that when I ran the first wing of ICC, I was able to immediately purchase my friendly ring. Massive upgrade. Otherwise, there's a good ring from the first boss in Heroic ToC 5 man. Also a good ring from normal Pit of Saron, Ick + Krick boss.

There's a nice cloak from the first boss in normal Halls of Reflection so you can try to pursue that.

Lastly, try to get a tanking sigil. They are very cheap and will serve you well.

Now, onto a bit more of the controversial stuff. Your professions need help. Mining is a good tanking profession, it will give you 60 stam. Since you are only in the Mithril level for mining, it won't really be helping you that much. Go farm that up to max. Drop skinning, that's a worthless profession for tanking. Jewelcrafting works great with mining, blacksmithing is also an option. Or even engineering, which will give you plenty of good stuff as a tank as well as more utility as a player and a lot more fun in PVP.

And your weapons... if you are planning on raid tanking, I'd recommend going to blood and using a 2 hander. I really would recommend this heavily. You will want the better cooldowns, better single target threat, and better health pool. Trust me.

[mhp]

Or even engineering, which will give you plenty of good stuff as a tank as well as more utility as a player and a lot more fun in PVP.

I'll second this. Armor on gloves, stamina on head - engineering is awesome. Plus you get bombs for cheap, so you can drop something when all your runes are on CD and yet another pack of mobs is about to charge your healer.

Not to mention, if you go gnomish, you'll have access to this beauty, for faster Dalaran loading times.

And your weapons... if you are planning on raid tanking, I'd recommend going to blood and using a 2 hander. I really would recommend this heavily. You will want the better cooldowns, better single target threat, and better health pool. Trust me.

However, I would advise against this. First, blood does not have better threat than DW frost. Most often, it's quite the opposite. Second, even if it did, it doesn't really matter, especially not since the IT buff, since if you loose threat, you should just delete the game because you're bad.

As for the better CDs: yeah, VB is better, as far as survival goes, but it doesn't provide anything else. UbA provides both damage and mitigation, which is awesome: I like to get more bang out of a talent, if possible. Frost also has a longer IBF, and takes less damage than blood (which offsets the lower HP).

In the end, it's VB vs UbA, and while VB wins, frost is so much more fun to play, and is perfectly viable, and works a lot better outside of raids too.