Greater Heal vs Divine Light

[Lysdexic]

Yeah so, my friend is leveling a lolwut pala and at 79 he is seeing 23k divine light crits. I got back to my EU priest (armory in signature iirc // in any case she's in ICC gear with well over 3k sp) and I couldn't get Gheal crits above 19k-20k. He's only got about 1300 sp.

What gives?

[Extrakt]

Got double the amount of SP and I crit 25K.

I think he is exxagerating a bit.
But classes are different, you have a shield and a dot. So ofcourse heals will be different.

[ericyeahright]

Paladin healers are "single target" healers for the most part, so were were designed to heal through a lot of damage. On the other hand you guys have bubbles and things to mitigate damage, along with a rather large heal, so your Gheal doesn't need to be as big as ours.

[Deleted]

As others said, loladins are much more single target-oriented. That being said, it's still annoying to see our paladins pop up to 70k crits when I barely get 30k inside icc... >.>

[harky]

DL hits much harder than GH. Did having 1k higher base healing not point that out? Their big heal is meant to hit harder than hours. My Paladin regularly crits for ~35k with DL and Conviction fully stacked. FoL hits harder than FH as well. HL is also better than Heal.

Don't compare spells directly though, that isn't the point. If you wanted all classes to have the same tools well... euw? If FoL/HL/DL were nerfed to be equal to Holy's FH/H/GH Paladins would be gimped to the point of being nearly unplayable.

[Simca]

Yeah so, my friend is leveling a lolwut pala and at 79 he is seeing 23k divine light crits. I got back to my EU priest (armory in signature iirc // in any case she's in ICC gear with well over 3k sp) and I couldn't get Gheal crits above 19k-20k. He's only got about 1300 sp.

What gives?

Uh, he's probably lying or there is a bug. I'm getting anywhere from 24.3k to 28k (with trinket procs and all buffs stacked) DL crits with 3554 SP.

I'm not using cooldowns of course.

[Zamfix]

Paladin healers are "single target" healers for the most part, so were were designed to heal through a lot of damage. On the other hand you guys have bubbles and things to mitigate damage, along with a rather large heal, so your Gheal doesn't need to be as big as ours.

For someone who has "Paladin" as their avatar, you are so far behind the times its not funny.

[Lysdexic]

I realize they can't be identical of course, but the disparity is pretty silly. He wasn't lying, I was looking over his shoulder as he chain pumped them out. When he popped wings they went up to 27k. Since Holy Light (the old incarnation) was always bigger, it's no surprise, but it felt like they wanted the "3 heals" to be similar. Factoring in the plethora of spells that priests have that palas don't it's no surprise I guess.

[Ultima]

I actually thought, at the start, that the idea was for all the healing specs to have a Heal, Flash Heal and Greater Heal (well, they do) and they would all perform the same in speed and base power. It would then be the rest of their tool kit that would define the class, so ProH/CoH, ProH/PW:B/PW:S, Chain Heal/Healing Rain, Holy Radiance/etc.

That just made sense to me. Clearly that's not what they want(ed).

[Marraphy]

I think all the Flash/Heal/Greater Heals are a little bit different;

Priests are probably what you would call normal. Druid's have synergy with HoTs, Paladins' heal for more. Idk about Shaman, maybe their's cost less mana.

[Deleted]

For someone who has "Paladin" as their avatar, you are so far behind the times its not funny.

Not really. Paladins were doing insane amounts of AoE healing on beta so to encourage the use of single target heals more they buffed every Paladin single target heal, and this was also hotfixed into live.
So yes, Blizzard still seems to want Paladins to be very good at single target healing.

[Simca]

I actually thought, at the start, that the idea was for all the healing specs to have a Heal, Flash Heal and Greater Heal (well, they do) and they would all perform the same in speed and base power. It would then be the rest of their tool kit that would define the class, so ProH/CoH, ProH/PW:B/PW:S, Chain Heal/Healing Rain, Holy Radiance/etc.

That just made sense to me. Clearly that's not what they want(ed).

It didn't really work out because Paladins have inferior AoE (or at least they're supposed to, Holy Radiance will be nerfed).

Therefore, if they have inferior AoE + no HoTs + the same level of single target heals... they would suck.

[Rurikar]

Oh sorry do Paladins have Renew as well? You cannot compare spell to spell and think it should be even.

If you want to compare tank healing vs tank healing. Then look at what both Paladins and Priests use to Tank heal.

Heal Chakra increases your crit chance by 10% and rolls renew.
Heal Chakra also gives you an instant heal further buffing your crit by 25% on heals.
PoM can also be used for instant tank healing that also turns into raid healing.

Paladins outside of the standard three heals have Shock and WoG which are both good for mana useage and instant healing. Beacon is also powerful in the sense you can use your Shock/WoG on raid targets to top them off and also give the tank a bit of that healing as well.


Don't compare spell to spell. Compare whole packages.

[imgrunk]

My pally is level 68 and 5min ago crit for 16.4k unbuffed. It might be a bug though because he was wearing all cloth and it all got int upgraded, but did not lose its SP stats , so it all now has both. My dps in spamming exo in holy healing spec is over 2k so I do not think it is intended at all.

[sacrypheyes]

well it is intended and broken but bliz prefer to phrase it as "formulas and figures are balanced taking lvl 85 as reference." (put bluntly), ie they don't give a sh!t about how (im)balanced it is before that. and if they do, my guess is we still got few weeks (months?) ahead before they fix all that mess they did with 4.0.1.

[Senari]

I think all the Flash/Heal/Greater Heals are a little bit different;

Priests are probably what you would call normal. Druid's have synergy with HoTs, Paladins' heal for more. Idk about Shaman, maybe their's cost less mana.

The main 3 Shaman heals play off of Tidal Waves differently, which is a 2-stack self-buff activated by casting Chain Heal or Riptide.

Healing Surge: +30% crit
Healing Wave: +30% haste
Greater Healing Wave: +30% haste

Shaman HoTs are small and/or predictable, with Healing Stream Totem; Riptide, which heals for 33% of its total initially and the rest of it over 15 (21 glyphed) seconds; and Earthliving Weapon, which has a 20% (100% on targets below 35% health) chance to activate on healed targets. Also, when you critically heal on single-target direct heals, 30% of the healed amount is also healed from a low-health ally within 40 yds of the target. Not to mention the 9-charge Earth Shield which can be placed on any target needing reactionary healing (this thing practically does all the healing necessary in WotLK pre-3.3 heroics).

Shaman mana is practically a joke in comparison to other classes. Shaman are the only healers that have a passive mana restoration technique while healing: While Water Shield is active, 428 mana is restored when you crit with Healing Wave, Greater Healing Wave, or Riptide; on 60% of your crits with Healing Surge; and on 30% of your crits with Chain Heal.

Restoration Shaman Mastery makes heals focused on low-health targets more effective as well. Up to 20% more effective.

Honestly, they made changes to each class. And all of the healing changes are awesome.

[eldritchknight]

You can't really compare the healing numbers directly because the toolboxes are different. Priests get shields, hots, better AoE heals and other tools depending on specs that improve survivability in ways that aren't direct healing. Paladins pretty much only have direct heals, so if those heals weren't hitting harder, paladins would compare very unfavorably to priests.

[zenkai]

ok correction, I miss read, yeah I am critting 23k (16kish normal) with divine light, with 1271 SP (I ding 80 on my pally yesterday)

[kedri]

Yeah, I know we cannot compare all heals together but its annoying when I heal on my 4k sp holy priest 14-15k with greater heal, and then I heal 14k on my prot pala with 1k sp. I know paladins are more single target oriented healers that us, but seriously, the difference shouldn't be that high. And last week they have got 30% more base healing

[Danner]

Holypriests gear for a lot of spirit and haste. Paladins don't.

DL also heals for (almost 50%) more baseline than GH, effecively scaling better with spellpower by a similar factor. The glyph increase healing by another 5%, and vigorous use of Holy Shock will make DL throughput quite impressive. In short, paladins have an edge in single target healing. No question about it.

(tongue-in-cheek)
It's not all bad news for the holypriest though. Holypriests are better than anyone at spending mana, and turns into a real healer upon death. Different strenghts