How to PvP as sub?

[XtreO]

So. I just dug up my TBC main. Which I haven't played in about 2 years or more. Started leveling a bit and quickly found out combat isn't the shit anymore, and things have changed a lot since the time of LOL SS SS SS SND SS SS SS SS SS RUPTURE.

Mainly I wan't to know how to PvP as sub, as the amount of stuff is overwhelming (I have found out you no longer use swords for it, so there is some progress). So here comes the questionflood!

1. Am I supposed to bleed shit with garrote, glyphed hemo and rupture or nuke shit with ambush, (unglyphed?) hemo and evisc? If the latter, why do I get the talent "Sanguinary vein"?
2. What about envenom? Is that worth spening time on?
3. How do I use Shadow Dance effectively? Do I need to make a bar with both stealthed and unstealthed abilities, or should I just use the openers? What openers are most used anyway?
4. Is it worth speccing recuperate out to the full?


That's all I can think off right now. Any help appreciated

[Swollen]

1. Garrote only for the 5 (glyphed) second silence on casters. I almost never rupture (cuz its bad). Hemo when they are infront of u and backstab whenever u can (try to backstab dont just let it happen). I glyph hemo because when you fight other rogues and want to make sure they dont restealth, instead of wasting time with a rupture i can just have it as part of my hemo which is part of my rotation and i have it specced where it increases damage they take when bleeding. Always spend combo points on evis or recuperate.
2. Dont use envenom, you dont use deadly poisons as sub spec. take it off your bar
3. Shadow Dance is a super burst cd (only 1 min...) make sure u have stocked up on energy because you want to spend it all on your stealth-only abilities. You can garrote casters so they are silence and wont blink away when u are bursting them, followed by spambush and u can cheapshot if you want to make sure they stay still for it. Have recuperate up because when specced into it you will get 12 energy per tick so that means more abilities to be used.
4. YES, id say the biggest challenge of sub rogues is always always always keeping up recuperate. this is a necessity, you can self heal (kinda op imo) and get roughly 10% of your energy back per tick.

[XtreO]

So what poisons do I use?

[chris1402]

Just Dance

[Raugnaut]

Poisons depend mostly on what you are up against. I prefer Mind-Numbing and Crippling for BG/World pvp. I dont do much arena.

[fizikz]

Just Dance

gonna be okay, da da doo-doo-mmm
Just dance, spin that record babe, da da doo-doo-mmm
Just dance, gonna be okay, d-d-d-dance
Dance, dance, just, j-j-just dance

[Deleted]

I have Mind-Numbing on my MH and Crippling on OH and thrown for Shiv and Fan of Knives. Wound on MH is probably best against melee. Keep SnD up too, although Recuperate is more important imho. And yeah, Rupture is a joke unless you're trying to prevent restealth.

I usually open with Premeditation -> Garrote -> BS/Hemo -> KS.

For frost mages I usually Vanish the Shattered Barrier, ShS when they Blink and then Garrote *or* CS depending on what's on diminishing return and keep Crippling up as much as possible. Cloak of Shadows is sometimes useful before you dance against casters.

It's also a good idea to macro Premeditation to your openers:

#showtooltip Garrote
/cast Premeditation
/cast Garrote

KS -> Smoke Bomb -> Dance -> cy@

[pkm]

Not gonna lie, sub pvp gets abysmal at the higher levels. I had this sub open up on me the other day. He was spamming away backstab while keeping me stunlocked. My hp bar was going down veeeeery slowly. Then i turned around mut rupture more mut envenom and he dropped.

If you going to play sub play it until about 70 or so then switch to assasination cause you will rage :P but if you enjoy playing it, dont let anyone tell you otherwise.

[Volitar]

Not gonna lie, sub pvp gets abysmal at the higher levels. I had this sub open up on me the other day. He was spamming away backstab while keeping me stunlocked. My hp bar was going down veeeeery slowly. Then i turned around mut rupture more mut envenom and he dropped.

If you going to play sub play it until about 70 or so then switch to assasination cause you will rage :P but if you enjoy playing it, dont let anyone tell you otherwise.

Nope at 70 you can still pretty much 1shot ambush things

[Deleted]

Nope at 70 you can still pretty much 1shot ambush things

Yeah subt is fun. If ambush fails to kill there is always Ambush, gouge, backstab dead. Bit more fun than just ambush hemo hemo.

[XtreO]

So what happened to rogue downlocking? When I last played you could lock someone down compleltely from 100% to 0% without too much trouble, while of course blowing all CDs. Does gouge restealth still work for instance? Tried to test that in BG yesterday, but didn't find some lone guy to do it on.

[bigjenk]

Nope at 70 you can still pretty much 1shot ambush things

Not if they get the brutal gear and rock 30 percent dr and 20k hp :P mut takes care of stuff quite quickly as well with cs mut evis and cold blood if they have a bunch of hp. Also if you have a healer at lower levels you can play it like a warrior and just wreck person after person without even needing to restealth.

[eylieen]

two simple steps:
1) respec assassination
2) make sure you did 1)

[Bobbojonno]

Just Dance

Lady Gaga said it best.

---------- Post added 2011-01-31 at 10:52 AM ----------

two simple steps:
1) respec assassination
2) make sure you did 1)

next week Assassination PVP dies and Sub becomes the ruler of PVP

[Plexiforce]

Yeah I find sub to be fine right now except against plate mainly warriors but I let my frost mage partner deal with them. Most DKs I actually find are pathetic. Holy pallies are just retarded in general so I dont even both if they are geared. But seriously mutilate is nice I love the damage but I cant stand to be kited everywhere, I finally went back to sub after watching a dk kite me with chains, pet, desecration, chains and let his pet and disease do all the work. I haven't regretted the change back to sub since I find the utility and mobility much more to my liking, rated bgs in strand ShS up and just cap the workshop GYs soon as the gates go down.

also know how main times Iv gotten away with a flag running out towards the GY then ShS back and down the tunnel and they all sitting at GY like where did he go. Or getting away from people while I got dots by vanishing while running one way then ShS back and go the opposite.

[chris1402]

Lady Gaga said it best.

---------- Post added 2011-01-31 at 10:52 AM ----------



next week Assassination PVP dies and Sub becomes the ruler of PVP

Ya, I hope it does, but I still don't think its enogh of a buff.

[Bobbojonno]

Ya, I hope it does, but I still don't think its enogh of a buff.

Hold thumbs subtlety brothers.

[Fadeout]

Guys on arena junkies have done the math, and it really isn't that much more damage.
But, like I keep telling my feral druid friend, despite how weak the spec might get, if you truly love it you'll find ways around it's weaknesses. (In regards to ferals getting shafted next patch, lol. I just can't feel sorry for him considering rogues have been consistently getting the shaft for 4 years)

Plus I'm not confident in our offensive ability against mages next patch; 24 sec cd on shadowstep vs 20 sec cd on blink might just make stuff a whole lot more painful for us

[Bobbojonno]

Guys on arena junkies have done the math, and it really isn't that much more damage.
But, like I keep telling my feral druid friend, despite how weak the spec might get, if you truly love it you'll find ways around it's weaknesses. (In regards to ferals getting shafted next patch, lol. I just can't feel sorry for him considering rogues have been consistently getting the shaft for 4 years)

Plus I'm not confident in our offensive ability against mages next patch; 24 sec cd on shadowstep vs 20 sec cd on blink might just make stuff a whole lot more painful for us

im getting mixed reports from the theorycrafters and the simulators (which actually puts sub ahead on dps) so ive done my own maths and i reakon its even pve suitable.

and if it is anywhere close to the ass and com (within 5%) ill be running sub only.

[Krid]

If you're good spec sub, if you're not, go assassination like the rest of em.