Destro PvP tips

[ashin]

I know its the "bad" spec. But for those who find it fun - can you provide some tips for arena and rated BG's?

Here is my alt:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%C3%ADn/simple

I decided to stick with Imp and that's why I took burning embers, for ghetto dispel protection. It seems to work well. But I find managing the pet overall to be a huge chore. I don't like that he stops attacking every time I cast fear, actually. Also, does anyone have good macro's for having the Imp dispel me or my focus? Does the standard UI let you put a custom macro on the pet toolbar?

The overall problem I feel is that my damage just doesn't seem very high. My moonkin does a lot more dmg, and for a class that is more dependent on slow hard casts, I expected those casts to translate into big hits. When I see the numbers that ele shammy and arcane (or even frost, really) can put out, I don't really understand why mine should be so low? Am I missing something?

Last question - DoT's. It seems like other than when I am kiting, the shadow-based DoT's are almost a waste of time/mana in arena. Do you guys find that to be true?

[Sabsy]

ur prob better off using felhunter even as destro, it still does a decent amount of dmg with shadow bite and has silence and purge which is better than dispel imo (guess it depends what comp u run in arena) ur imp will prob fall over if u have him dispel UA lol

i will state the obvious in saying that this spec is no where close to being as competitive and put out as much pressure as afflic in both arena and rbgs (tho world pvp destro may be better if ur not fighting a healer)

i still enjoy destro more than any other spec on my warlock so i hope they buff it a lot next tier and make it good in pvp and pve, but for now u will be doing very little dmg and prob relying on ur stuns and fears to get ur kills

[ashin]

I did have a lot of trouble with Imp's time on target. It seemed he was easily distracted / kited / pillar gamed (just like his master!). But overall we did better once I switched. I know the spec is not competitive with AFF but I just want to try to make it work. I'm holding out for the 4.3 patch notes, and if I see no Destro love there, I will cave into the aff pressure.

So for now I just hope to find some tips or advice.

[Melkor]

Bear in mind that what i tell you is not gospel. I'm no pvp master. I do pretty ok in 2v2 and very well in random bgs. So test what i tell you for yourself and see if it works for you.

1. Go all haste, not crit
I know, I know, Destro used to be the crit spec. Well, Destro also used to be bursty and its not anymore. Haste makes your dots tick faster and makes your hard casts come out quicker. This not only includes chaos bolt and incinerate, but also fear, immolate and howl of terror. In PVP haste is a hardcaster's best friend.

2. After you reach your hit and spell pen caps use your remaining blue slots for intel/stam. If you are using the imp as your minion you are already getting a considerable stamina boost, plus the 10% from demonic embrace that is a heckuva lot of health. I only have two ruthless pieces and I have about 20k more health than my main - a fire mage with five ruthless pieces. I'm at about 147k health. This really helps soak up the damage, especially against your bane - rogues. Health also translates into mana.

3. Self-dispel singe macro: /cast [pet:Imp, target=player] Singe

4. Strategy to maximise burst:

Take the improved soul fire talent. And use soul burn in conjunction with it for instant soul fires. This is a VERY important part of your offense. This gives you both an instant nuke and a damage buff. Proper management of soul burn and soul shards is one of the keys to any kind of success as Destro.

So to set up some burst you use your demon soul cool down for the increased crit, your spell power trinket, immolate, conflag, soul burn, instant soul fire, chaos bolt and incinerate. You won't get arcane mage numbers but thats as good as it gets.

5. I only use the shadow dots when I am being pursued by melee and don't have the space for a hard cast. But even in those situations my preference is to spam fel flame, preferably with immolate up on them.

6. Control of the imp is very important. Apart from singe make sure you have his other commands keybound, especially for target switching.

[painweaver]

seriously? for the love of god, dont pvp destro.

make sure you get glyph of searing pain and spec into it. You'll burn 'em down before they can even reach you...

[plun]

seriously? for the love of god, dont pvp destro.

make sure you get glyph of searing pain and spec into it. You'll burn 'em down before they can even reach you...

Most unhelpful post ever. Just because destro is worse than affl doesn't mean he can't try it out.
Also, there's no glyph of searing pain.

[Kivimetsan]

Most unhelpful post ever. Just because destro is worse than affl doesn't mean he can't try it out.
Also, there's no glyph of searing pain.

Lol'd

Destro is good, can prove it to... dude on my server is 2800 as destro and hes amazing at it

Also tips:
Crit > Haste. You cant get enough haste to be that effective, where as you can get a good amount of crit.
Get used to refreshing immolate, it gets despelled alot

[ashin]

Thank you for the constructive tips guys. There seems to be a debate about Haste v. Crit. I know that haste is our best DPS stat in PvE, but our hits are all so weak in PvP, maybe it might actually make sense to load up on Crit/Mastery to beef them up.

As far as Improved Soul Fire, I am having trouble seeing how you would talent that without giving up too many goodies from the Demo tree. That's my biggest problem, along with the general issue of trying to maintain any sort of ISF uptime in PvP.

Will the default UI allow me to keybind petbar buttons?

[Melkor]

Thank you for the constructive tips guys. There seems to be a debate about Haste v. Crit. I know that haste is our best DPS stat in PvE, but our hits are all so weak in PvP, maybe it might actually make sense to load up on Crit/Mastery to beef them up.

As far as Improved Soul Fire, I am having trouble seeing how you would talent that without giving up too many goodies from the Demo tree. That's my biggest problem, along with the general issue of trying to maintain any sort of ISF uptime in PvP.

Will the default UI allow me to keybind petbar buttons?

I used to be crit focused and it made me too slow to "chain" attacks, which is really vital for the spec. By chain I mean, shadowfury, into fear, into immolate, etc. To play this spec well you have to move VERY quickly. Also, even though this is supposed to be a burst spec, it is a dot spec and the more haste you have, the faster your dots tick.

I use Bartender, which I guess doesn't really help you answer the UI question. I have to ask though, do you find you have enough bar space with the default UI?

[Ensipid]

I personally feel the imp is a better choice however the felhunter is just as good ( i just like having a defensive dispel / higher overall dmg)

Having said that, destro is about chaining as much damage in a short amount of time, essentially it takes a setup. Since you mentioned overall damage you're going to always be very very low, ESPECIALLY when compared to a moonkin, who can multi dot like a warlock ( assuming limited defensive dispels from your opponents )

Something like an immo cast==> fear hard casting an incinerate into a conflag + chaos bolt followed by a shadow fury + incinerate spam then maybe a glyphed double shadow burn ( assuming you can get them low in that short period : P ).

The only good part about destro pvp that's still here is the shadowfury ==> into a howl setup for getting a good long multi player CC. The ability to kill someone during that period in group pvp is mostly going to depend on you and your teammate, instead of just yourself as it was in WOTLK.

[ashin]

So, basically trying to "cover" my casting time with my fears and stuns. I will need to practice that.

About shadowburn.. I'm almost thinking of deleting that glyph and even spec'ing out of it. This spell does no damage! I think it literally does less than an Immolation tick or a hit from my Imp. Someone please fact-check me, but I believe that is true. What is the point of an "execute" move that hits for less than a DoT tick? o.O

The second shadowburn is still on GCD so the glyph isn't as nice as it sounded, I find.

[Melkor]

So, basically trying to "cover" my casting time with my fears and stuns. I will need to practice that.

About shadowburn.. I'm almost thinking of deleting that glyph and even spec'ing out of it. This spell does no damage! I think it literally does less than an Immolation tick or a hit from my Imp. Someone please fact-check me, but I believe that is true. What is the point of an "execute" move that hits for less than a DoT tick? o.O

The second shadowburn is still on GCD so the glyph isn't as nice as it sounded, I find.

Shadowburn is like exhibit A for the kind of neglect Blizz has given this spec. Not only does it have no kind of crit or damage multiplier, it doesn't even benefit from the Destro mastery because it is in the shadow tree. Seriously, if you have ever played a Shadow priest, glyphed shadow word: death means exactly that, DEATH, once you are below the 30% health.

However, if you think of how you are forced to play Destro PVP, shadowburn is an important part of the chain and while I don't glyph it, I definitely need the talent. Think of it like this, Destro lock has no burst, so they have to throw numerous, low damage attacks as quickly as possible. I normally use shadowburn right after an incinerate or chaos bolt (they land almost simultaneously) and am waiting for the GCD to launch another incinerate because I am not taking for granted that it is going to kill the target. But even if it doesn't it is still an instant in a spec that relies on hardcasts and it is still inching the targets life bar down to zero.

[ashin]

So which Glyphs do you recommend?

[shammaz]

So which Glyphs do you recommend?

i would stick with immo & conflag, and the third.. well you can choose. i sometimes use shadowburn but when that gets annoying i switch it to imp, incin and chaosbolt are also decent


and nothing wrong with destro in pvp i personally prefer it that is why i played it to 2.2 with a resto druid/ele clicker too. but we've kinda taken a break since the druid dinged 85 a week or two before hitting 2.2 so he wants his weapon etc, im sure we could push it higher.


and tbh i probably wouldn't play if i was forced to aff. to those who say aff is the only way, whats the point in playing if you have to stick to a single spec that you might not even enjoy. rather silly way of playing imho!

[ComputerNerd]

Affliction due to less reliance on hard-casting is less susceptable to interruptions than Destro and has a better degree, if questionable in effectiveness of dispell protection.
Destruction is good when in the hands of a good player because it can unload burst, and I would argue offers more control than demonoloogy which is more reliant on the lining up of hand of gul'dan and axe toss.
If you can consistently "juke" or waste their interruptions then hard-casting becomes more realistic.

[shammaz]

oh and OP macros are /cast [target=self] singe magic
obvs put your name or healers name in 'self'

and i take burning embers for dmg more than dispell protection since ele/spriest have dispell protection too its good to play with them
also burning embers helps with if using a felhunter too! more dots = bigger shadowbite

[Nicola]

oh and OP macros are /cast [target=self] singe magic
obvs put your name or healers name in 'self'

and i take burning embers for dmg more than dispell protection since ele/spriest have dispell protection too its good to play with them
also burning embers helps with if using a felhunter too! more dots = bigger shadowbite

Destruction doesn't have a dispellprotection mate.
Also, it is a bad thing to rely that much on felhunter since he easily can be kited / rooted / banished and you don't want him to break cc early, do you?
It's better to place those 2 points of burning embers somewere else.

As for glyphs,
Primary: Immolate-Conflagrate-shadowburn/chaosbolt.
Secondary: Soullink- Shadowflame- Felhunter / healthstone

[gakpad]

How is burning embers not dispel protection? It's an extra dispellable magic debuff. That's the definition of dispel protection.

[Nicola]

How is burning embers not dispel protection? It's an extra dispellable magic debuff. That's the definition of dispel protection.

No, it's not, it just slows down the dispelling.
A dispel protection is a secondary effect to one of your debuffs that either grants you a buff, deals damage to the dispeller and/or applies a debuff to the dispeller to make the dispeller think if they want to dispel it or not.

Just to give a stupid example, I can use water-breathing in combination with my other buffs against a dispeller. Having 1 extra buff just slows down the dispeller, it doesn't make them think about dispelling it or not because nothing bad will happen.

[gakpad]

in the context of what was being discussed, you're usig a different definition than the other people commenting on burning embers. I see your point however. destruction could indeed use a reactive dispel protection rather than the active protection burnig embers provides.