Bill Legalizing Cannabis in Washington State

[Dassen]

Don't understand why its banned in first place... It has similar effects like Alcohol and isn't as life threatening as Cigarettes. Oh i see goverment is trying to make money .... oh yeh.. i see....

Its pointless War ... US wastes around 2 billion on "war on drugs" (war on cannabis obvsly...).

2 billion? I wish.
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/...fy10budget.pdf
They waste FAR more than 2 billion a year on fighting cannabis.

[roflpot]

The amount of people in this thread, who claim with no sense of irony on a world of warcraft related message board, they cannot understand why people waste their time doing something (in this case, smoking) is truly staggering.

It's not like drugs are hard to get anyway, all they do at the moment is let all the proceeds go straight into the hands of criminals instead of taxing it and reinvesting the money into society.

[Saicam]

I'd be perfectly fine with weed being legal if it weren't for the fact that whenever these potheads walk around they freaking stink up the place and make me want to vomit. At least half of the time I take the bus to work every day there's at least one idiot who smoked up and decided to take the bus.

Now imagine how bad it'll be when everyones allowed to use the crap.

lol, well atleat he decided to take the bus, instead of driving while under its effects.

[Dassen]

I just watched this for the 3rd time, I get more pissed off every time I do.
Everybody, despite opinion, should see this to get a perspective on just what exactly governments are doing with the question about cannabis.

WATCH THIS! http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...4414651731007#

[Mukki]

I apologize if this has already been posted and I overlooked it, but I would like to point out that weed is simply a vice, no different than say, playing WoW. Not everyone who smokes herb is some lonely stoner trying to cope with their problems any more than someone who may kick back with a beer after work is an alcoholic.

Heck, it could be argued that most MMOs are worse for you and far more addictive than weed, lol.

[Fraza]

If alcohol was discovered today, it would be classified as an illegal drug.

legal =\= right, good, etc
illegal =\= wrong, bad etc

[Shadowmelded]

I just watched this for the 3rd time, I get more pissed off every time I do.
Everybody, despite opinion, should see this to get a perspective on just what exactly governments are doing with the question about cannabis.

WATCH THIS! http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...4414651731007#

Yeah that video was pretty interesting, since I was already pro-marijuana it didn't change my Point of view but there were a few things they said that I didn't know, and it's always good to have other peoples opinions on it. The amount of highly educated and intelligent people they interviewed was amazing (considering it's still illegal so voicing support of it might not be for everyone) and their views on it just made a lot of sense.

Now I just wish there was some way we could actually do something about it, I know Canada has people like Dana Larssen etc... and that's where most of the campaigning and movements are happening, but being in Europe there aren't many parties I know of that are taken seriously with a pro-marijuana stance. It's alright talking about it and proving it's harmlessness to people online, but I kinda want to do something about it.

[Cactusbat]

Here's my op on the subject..

Pros of legalization:
1. Another form of biofuel can be made and used from hemp oil.
2. Lower crime rate. Wouldn't eliminate it but would make a fair dent.
3. Lower prison population. Overcrowding due to asinine charges is a big problem.
4. Taxation. This is the biggest reason to do so. This could also affect income taxes and whatnot as they'd have another revenue source so there's potential to lower other taxes.
5. Jobs. Gotta have someone to tend crops, harvest, process, run machinery, bookkeeping, etc.
6. Possibly eliminate the use/"need" of some of the garbage legal drugs out there like psych-meds.
7. Numerous other materials can be made from hemp/marajuana and its a resource thats easily replenished.
I'm sure there's more but I'm on a time limit.

Cons of legalization:
1. Oil companies may take a hit with a new biofuel out.
2. Pharmacy companies WILL take a hit. Kinda hard to find a cheaper way to produce the drug other than throwing seeds in dirt.
3. Plastic companies will take a hit. See oil companies.
4. Prison owners pockets will take a hit as less people to populate their cashcows.
5. Politicians will take a hit since less money "may" be funneled into the War on Drugs. I say may because the government will find a way and justification if it wants to.
Like pros, I'm sure there's more cons but again I'm on a time limit.

Another thing, I can't say I've EVER heard of someone gettin stoned and beating his wife and kids. Ever.

[Gardensnake]

Here's my op on the subject..

Pros of legalization:
1. Another form of biofuel can be made and used from hemp oil.
2. Lower crime rate. Wouldn't eliminate it but would make a fair dent.
3. Lower prison population. Overcrowding due to asinine charges is a big problem.
4. Taxation. This is the biggest reason to do so. This could also affect income taxes and whatnot as they'd have another revenue source so there's potential to lower other taxes.
5. Jobs. Gotta have someone to tend crops, harvest, process, run machinery, bookkeeping, etc.
6. Possibly eliminate the use/"need" of some of the garbage legal drugs out there like psych-meds.
7. Numerous other materials can be made from hemp/marajuana and its a resource thats easily replenished.
I'm sure there's more but I'm on a time limit.

Cons of legalization:
1. Oil companies may take a hit with a new biofuel out.
2. Pharmacy companies WILL take a hit. Kinda hard to find a cheaper way to produce the drug other than throwing seeds in dirt.
3. Plastic companies will take a hit. See oil companies.
4. Prison owners pockets will take a hit as less people to populate their cashcows.
5. Politicians will take a hit since less money "may" be funneled into the War on Drugs. I say may because the government will find a way and justification if it wants to.
Like pros, I'm sure there's more cons but again I'm on a time limit.

Another thing, I can't say I've EVER heard of someone gettin stoned and beating his wife and kids. Ever.

All of the pros affect the whole while all the cons impact the few (pretty sure that's what you were getting at just pointing it out.)

[Deleted]

Cannabis is natural and the drug companies don't like it. All round its probably one of the best medicines but you can't patent a plant so...

[Dassen]

Yeah that video was pretty interesting, since I was already pro-marijuana it didn't change my Point of view but there were a few things they said that I didn't know, and it's always good to have other peoples opinions on it. The amount of highly educated and intelligent people they interviewed was amazing (considering it's still illegal so voicing support of it might not be for everyone) and their views on it just made a lot of sense.

Now I just wish there was some way we could actually do something about it, I know Canada has people like Dana Larssen etc... and that's where most of the campaigning and movements are happening, but being in Europe there aren't many parties I know of that are taken seriously with a pro-marijuana stance. It's alright talking about it and proving it's harmlessness to people online, but I kinda want to do something about it.

You can always start small and tell people the truth about cannabis, a great way of doing so would be telling them to watch The Union.
And the thing is, it WILL get legalized in Canada, which inevitably will help the legalization in the US, and once the US legalizes it the rest of the world will surely follow.

Edit: That might just be wishful thinking but oh well. A dream can be good even if it never comes true.

[Udderchaos]

http://www.mapinc.org/norml/v11/n172/a08.htm

shit like this happens every day. How long until people have had enough? Talk about excessive force and trying to scare the public. This should have people in an uproar, fuck the DEA and fuck the feds, all they care about is money

[Sunseeker]

http://www.mapinc.org/norml/v11/n172/a08.htm

shit like this happens every day. How long until people have had enough? Talk about excessive force and trying to scare the public. This should have people in an uproar, fuck the DEA and fuck the feds, all they care about is money

They're not doing it for money dumbass. They're doing it because it is FEDERALLY illegal to sell marijuana in the United States. Individual states within the country do not get the right to trump federal law. If you don't like it, change federal law. Until enough people in enough states realize that the FEDERAL law needs to be changed before they'll get any peace, they'll keep getting raided.

[Gardensnake]

http://www.mapinc.org/norml/v11/n172/a08.htm

shit like this happens every day. How long until people have had enough? Talk about excessive force and trying to scare the public. This should have people in an uproar, fuck the DEA and fuck the feds, all they care about is money

That links information comes from a fairly incomplete story, this one: http://goo.gl/2xIVo : fleshes it out a good deal more. Basically what happened with these raids was the shops and growers that were busted were violating the state medical marijuana laws, selling to people with out scripts, not reporting taxes, etc.

Pretty stupid when it comes right down to it, the DOJ has said they wont go after medicinal operations provided they follow their state laws, this group of growers and sellers didn't and got smacked for it. These guys have a golden ticket as is, but wanted more, broke the law, and this is what happens. Should really serve as a warning to others to follow the letter of the law.

Agree with Smrund work needs to be thrown behind changing the federal laws, but even then people will need to obey the laws or risk legal trouble.

BTW: Same thing happened in Colorado a few months back when a dispensary was caught selling meth over the counter. Don't break your state laws fools!

[Dahkneth]

Cannabis is natural and the drug companies don't like it. All round its probably one of the best medicines but you can't patent a plant so...

Actually, in the case of genetically engineered organisms, you can patent plants. Also, if this law passes, and with the continuing drive to increase THC content in cannabis, one would expect that this would be an ideal project for major agricultural companies.

[Udderchaos]

I suppose its my fault for not knowing the whole story but it still doesn't make it right for them to "kick open an unlocked door" and come in armed like they're going to find a crazy violent underground mob cultivating marijuana plants and selling them in a store.

They're not doing it for money dumbass. They're doing it because it is FEDERALLY illegal to sell marijuana in the United States. Individual states within the country do not get the right to trump federal law. If you don't like it, change federal law. Until enough people in enough states realize that the FEDERAL law needs to be changed before they'll get any peace, they'll keep getting raided.

Wrong. They are doing it for the money. The only reason marijuana is illegal right now federally is due to the amount of money big pharma would lose out on if it was made legal. That's why now that some pharma companies are asking to be able to produce and sell THC, the government is allowing it. THC will be a schedule 3 drug while marijuana itself remains illegal allowing big pharma to sell marijuana without selling marijuana. You're wrong on the whole state vs. federal law thing though unless i'm mistaken. The 10th amendment states "the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the federal government nor prohibited to the states by the Constitution are reserved to the states or the people."

I'm not claiming to know the whole Constitution, but I would be shocked if it mentioned the distribution of marijuana should be handled by the Feds. The Federal law is not going to change. It needs to be worked from the states. Once enough people get to see how it will effect the states that legalize it, it will become a nation wide movement. Going to the corrupt, money grubbing, government itself will not change anything at this point. They know the effects of marijuana and how it will effect the social and economical aspects of America and they know that most people, if told the truth, would scratch their heads as to why it is illegal. So they let peoples fear of the unknown continue while big pharma cashes out on making much more deadly synthetic drugs and saying they must be used for any sort of sickness.

[Gardensnake]

You're wrong on the whole state vs. federal law thing though unless i'm mistaken. The 10th amendment states "the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the federal government nor prohibited to the states by the Constitution are reserved to the states or the people.".

They use the Interstate Commerce Clause to get around the limits to federal powers.

From the link:

The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution has in the last two decades played a part in the Court's view of the Commerce Clause. The Tenth Amendment states that the federal government has only the powers specifically delegated to it by the Constitution. Other powers are reserved to the states, or to the people. The Commerce Clause is an important source of those powers delegated to Congress, and therefore its interpretation is very important in determining the scope of federal power in controlling innumerable aspects of American life. The Commerce Clause has been the most widely interpreted clause in the Constitution, making way for many laws which, some argue, contradict the original intended meaning of the Constitution. Justice Clarence Thomas has gone so far as to state in his dissent to Gonzales,

"Respondents Diane Monson and Angel Raich use marijuana that has never been bought or sold, that has never crossed state lines, and that has had no demonstrable effect on the national market for marijuana. If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything – and the federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers."

And here is the Supreme Court case that deals with medical marijuana (from which the above quote was taken): Gonzales v. Raich

More from Justice Thomas' dissent: "If the majority is to be taken seriously, the Federal Government may now regulate quilting bees, clothes drives, and potluck suppers throughout the 50 States. This makes a mockery of Madison's assurance to the people of New York that the "powers delegated" to the Federal Government are "few and defined", while those of the States are "numerous and indefinite."

[Frozenbeef]

I don't drink, do drugs, smoke, take any medicine etc....

I find it offensive that people are allowed to smoke in public places let alone use drugs in them. Sure go home kill your self all you want but don't force other people to suffer.

[Feel The Power]

I live in the Netherlands where Pot has been legal for years. Overall it's had very positive side-effects as far as I know.

Wrong, pot is not legal ANYWHERE on earth, it is decriminalized in some places which is different than being legal. Marijuana being made legal would mean that anyone can grow, sell, transport, ingest it. Decriminalization means that the police and government will basically turn a blind eye to an average user and to places which are authorized to sell it, but they can still choose to punish you for it. Legalization would mean it would be legal for you neighbor to grow it and sell it to anyone without fear of punishment...thus the government would not make money on taxing it, which would be the only reason they would ever allow marijuana usage. People like to think weed is legal in the Netherlands, when in fact it is illegal for anyone there to grow it, and the coffeeshops who buy their weed supplies actually are buying it illegally. The Netherlands government just chooses to turn a blind eye to it (most likely due to the billions of euros in taxes it recieves from pot). Do not ever count on the U.S. legalizing marijuana...as we would definitely not choose to be the only country on earth to do so. At best it can be decriminalized.
The state of Montana has a medical marijuana law, yet today the feds raided medical marijuana places and confiscated not only the pot, but also medical marijuana patient lists. Having marijuana decriminalized in a state means nothing if the federal government feels like stepping in and arresting everyone.

[Gardensnake]

The state of Montana has a medical marijuana law, yet today the feds raided medical marijuana places and confiscated not only the pot, but also medical marijuana patient lists. Having marijuana decriminalized in a state means nothing if the federal government feels like stepping in and arresting everyone.

Jump one page back and check the link in my post, there was more to it than the original reporting let on. Essentially they were breaking the state laws that regulate medicinal marijuana and got busted for those offenses, other dispensaries were explicitly told beforehand that they wouldn't be raided (as they had not broken state laws.)