Guild applicants STILL not including logs?

[Deleted]

Ever since WotLK mass pugging started there is no reason to not have a log except for laziness or not beign good enough. You don't want either of those.

There can be exceptions in case of player's good reputations, experience from high end guilds etc. but that barely happens when a person like that doesn't provide logs.

[darkwarrior42]

If a guild requires a log and you don't bother to provide one for whatever reason, you shouldn't expect to get in.

If the guild requires a log, and you don't provide one, and they then reject you, why are you upset anyways? Clearly you and the guild don't see eye-to-eye, so odds are you wouldn't be a good match anyways.

[Eon Drache]

Logs are really buggy. Right now, top rated Ret on Morchok is 6k above the 5th rated, and the fight lasted for a grand total of 14 seconds. Yeah.. Let us not forget the Shaman that used Arcane Blast in Firelands to get a 98k dps rating.

[Exiztence]

Logs are really buggy. Right now, top rated Ret on Morchok is 6k above the 5th rated, and the fight lasted for a grand total of 14 seconds. Yeah.. Let us not forget the Shaman that used Arcane Blast in Firelands to get a 98k dps rating.

WoL is regulary resetting the whole top list at start of new tier because they are fine tuning and filtering invalid reports, after few weeks it will be just fine, in meantime providing logs of previous tier is acceptable.

[mirodin]

Not sure if serious or just very dumb, you can see in logs if people fail, you can see in logs when they dispel, you can see in logs when they interrupt.

Yes but you can't see what duty they were put on, so if i was never on interrupt duty how would you know if i can or can't . So still you don't know anything but now ppl know you are a dumbass.

[Gandrake]

denied

there is 0 chance to know if he is decent without logs

what if they come recommended, by a core raider?

But I agree, there is no reason to not have logs for an application now. If necessary, you should include the information needed to make combat logs. I didn't even know what the hell World of Logs was for 3 out of the 5 years I've been playing.

[Deleted]

i got in to my current guild without logs because at the time i was not raiding and couldnt raid (didnt have the time). I simply said I would be happy to run a 5man instance or jump into a raid group to prove myself as a player. They took me on and im now one of the core raiding players and actually record the logs for the guild.

Logs are not the be all and end all of an application. TBH, unless you play the class thats applying at an end game level they are probably fairly meaningless to you. you would do much better to run a 5 man dungeon with them, see what their attitude is like and their dps/hps/tanking ability is like in that situation.

[Xenodrake]

You get apps like that no matter what rank you are we in Infallible still get them and we are ranked in the US top 20 range since ICC. Just inform them parse or can't move forward with the app and move on lol.

[spaace]

My view on this, I'm currently not in a guild, or able to raid and haven't been in a while.. Trying to apply to a raiding guild.. How the hell am I supposed to come up with parses when there's no way to legitly get any?

Parse LFR and 5 mans? That's a joke right?

[Slanderize]

Lmfao. I was in the top 5 guilds in ET for like four years until I got bored of the whole scene, and if any of those retards had told me I had to go and post a log, I'd have laughed in their face and pushed those bosses shit in for the first jackasses that didn't have all those logs shoved up their ass.

Like, ever heard of a fucking trial run? I'd figure in this day and age with RAIDS ON DEMAND dragging someone into a trial run is a whole lot more effective than seeing the douchebag can plug some numbers into a box, or is pretty pro with Photoshop.

I mean, in the end to each their own, but seriously man. I can't get passing someone up for basically PAPERWORK. What the fuck, is your entire leadership a bunch of city council members or what?

[Deleted]

My view on this, I'm currently not in a guild, or able to raid and haven't been in a while.. Trying to apply to a raiding guild.. How the hell am I supposed to come up with parses when there's no way to legitly get any?

Parse LFR and 5 mans? That's a joke right?

What's wrong with showing that you can keep high dot uptime/use right spells, proper rotation and cooldowns, not dying to random stuff and actually target switch while dealing top dps for your current gear? Sure, 5 mans are not valid because of the short fight duration, however a 25man raid setting with all raid buffs is perfectly valid.
Why feed random bad players gear when you can descriminate the good ones from the bad before you spend several weeks carrying them in raids until they get proper gear.

[Gondlem]

Parse LFR and 5 mans? That's a joke right?

If you're apping to a guild, you're trying to convince them you're good enough to join their raid team. You do that by explaining what you have to offer, answering questions as they are asked, and providing whatever evidence you can to back up your claims, which basically means logs.

Parsing LFR would be fine if you don't have a guild presently, either that or a trade chat pug of normal modes. Just going in and killing a couple of bosses and parsing them shows firstly that you're dedicated enough to make that effort, and in the parse they can see what buttons you press and when, how well you handle fight mechanics, buff and debuff management, that sort of thing. Obviously it's better if you have a log of something relevant to what that guild is doing but a log of some sort should always be mandatory on an app in this day and age when they are so easy to acquire.

[Regen]

We are ranked 2nd and one of two 25m guilds on our realm. Hardly a top-500, but good enough to turn heads on our own realm and draw players without having to spam trade. And yet, despite progressing through hardmodes, we still get applications that don't include logs on the part of the application that very clearly says "Link some logs (this is required)." Seriously. What. The. Hell.

Thanks to LFR, an applicant can run half of DS and have a complete set of good logs to app with in literally less than an hour. I think there's no excuse for this any more, and to me, not including logs means an applicant is either technologically challenged (bad) or lazy (very bad).

We can't be the only mid-range guild experiencing this. Do other guilds still get this, or is it just our realm's recruiting pool? How do you guys deal with this, especially on apps that are otherwise decent?

Thought you made top 200 25 man ? :P


This is annoying, I guess...

[darkwarrior42]

Parse LFR and 5 mans? That's a joke right?

Why not parse a LFR kill? Sure it's easier, but a lot of the things they're looking for they'll be able to see just fine in a LFR parse. Take a Morchok kill, for instance; sure, his health is pathetic, the crystals are terrible, and the black blood kinda tickles. But they can still see: '
-What the uptime was on your buffs/debuffs
-Did you take damage from Black Blood?
-Did you take damage from resonating crystals? If yes, were you close enough to properly mitigate it?
-If you're a class that has damage reduction cooldowns, did you use them in preparing to soak a stomp or crystal?
-If you're a tanking class, did you use defensive cooldowns intelligently? At all? Did you tank swap at appropriate times (ie did the other tanke ever get to 4+ stacks?)
-If you're a healing class, did you effectively use your healing cooldowns? Were people dying to anything other than black blood?

It's not perfect, but if you fail on the LFR version (note: not the raid, you), then you're probably not going to do well in normal or heroic. If something out of the ordinary happened, or if you had other responsibilities, just note that.

"This was my log for Morchok. It was taken in a LFR, since I didn't have any other logs handy. Other people were being idiots about soaking crystals (specifically, not moving close to them to properly soak damage), so to make sure people didn't die I wound up soaking on every single crystal."

[Liax]

My view on this, I'm currently not in a guild, or able to raid and haven't been in a while.. Trying to apply to a raiding guild.. How the hell am I supposed to come up with parses when there's no way to legitly get any?

Parse LFR and 5 mans? That's a joke right?

With this being said... Log your shit in LFR. Just a patchwork fight such as ultraxion, or morchok. Simple as can be.

[Deleted]

In the end this is your call and how you want to handle your guild.

If you have ALOT of applications you should probably just reject the players who aren't posting what you request. It's your guild and your time. No point in wasting it when you have other options.

On the other hand your post makes it sound like you are on a rather small realm.
So on the one hand you might not have that many applicants and rejecting too many players really fast will make you look elitist. Never a good thing on a small realm.

To this issue itself. Personally I hate how guilds and especially dps are obsessed with logs and meters. Id rather have someone playing out the mechanics right and not taking risks than someone chancing it to push dps. If you aren't in the top100 it's mechanics that wipe you 99% of the time and not output.

So I suggest the old fashioned way. If you like a players application and you think he might fit into your roster (both personal and performance) invite him to you vent and do a short interview (basically just talk). Usually you can figure out what kind of person he is from that.

After that we used to do trial runs with alt groups to test performance. Obviously you can do that quickly in the LFR now. Just put one of your officers in there whose judgement you trust. It's much better to see a person actually play than looking at provided logs.

EDIT:
Oh and personally. I'd rather do a 5min fight and watch the guy closely than analyse a log for the same amount of time. Screw that.

[Deleted]

My guild is now the #1 25m on our server (other went 10m) and we actually put the time in to LOOK UP logs. Get the toon name and guild from the app and go... don't sound so freaking lazy and elitist, you're probably missing out on good people by being a douche.

Then surely the person that wrote the app could get HIS OWN toon name and HIS OWN GUILD and link his own logs. If you dont turn in your CV at a job apply, is the company lazy for not asking arround your neighbours if you worked in your local bakery or K-mart? Seriously, get a grip.

[Xanjori]

-Did you take damage from Black Blood?

Which person would run away from the bad stuff that does about 400 damage at the loss of all their DPS? Ofc I stand in the Black Blood and nuke in LFR, Id be stupid not to.

---------- Post added 2011-12-13 at 03:39 PM ----------

Then surely the person that wrote the app could get HIS OWN toon name and HIS OWN GUILD and link his own logs. If you dont turn in your CV at a job apply, is the company lazy for not asking arround your neighbours if you worked in your local bakery or K-mart? Seriously, get a grip.

Yeah, this would be an amazing comparison if it didnt take me a whole 2 minutes to check any guild in the worlds logs on WoL, and then go on making my review from there. Why would you apply to a guild that can't take 2 minutes to check something?

[Herecius]

Yeah, this would be an amazing comparison if it didnt take me a whole 2 minutes to check any guild in the worlds logs on WoL, and then go on making my review from there. Why would you apply to a guild that can't take 2 minutes to check something?

But by that same token, why would a guild bother to look over an app that can't take the 2 minutes to add that link? Generally speaking, when an app is examined by a guild, they are doing the app a favor by checking it out. The guild is spending time sifting through a bunch of information, and is considering how much an applicant can help contribute to the guild's ability to progress. It is possible that if a guild makes a bad decision, they waste not only time (when wipes happen and progression slows), but gear that could have gone to other players as well.

The worst apps tend to be the ones where the app seems to believe that he/she is doing the guild a favor simply by apping and existing, like saying 'here's how awesome I am, you're welcome, you're damn lucky I apped to you.' Even if somebody is a good enough player to be correct in that a guild is lucky to have him/her app in the first place, it's a terrible attitude and one that would give me pause no matter how good somebody is.

[Magzilla]

Whole lotta 'spergin robots in here.

Beep boop insert log algorithms. Cannot compute personal interaction!