Question for my Euro friends

[Jackmoves]

I think we have finally found an issue almost all Europeans can agree on ... it's a sad thing to agree on though. =(

[Crispin]

They have their own parallel society, in my country they recently kicked a huge amount of gypsies back to Romania, they settled near a empty industriel zone, they're known for all sorts of crimes.

But it's not like racism against other "races" like in America, I've never even meet a gypsy, but you just know that they're up to no good, so I guess it's sorta like, well, I hate bringing up the comparison, but you wouldnt want any kind of rats or whatever running around in your apartment either right? I don't dislike them in a racist kinda of way, but their way of life is just not compatible with most countries.

[Gamdwelf]

They have their own parallel society, in my country they recently kicked a huge amount of gypsies back to Romania, they settled near a empty industriel zone, they're known for all sorts of crimes.

But it's not like racism against other "races" like in America, I've never even meet a gypsy, but you just know that they're up to no good, so I guess it's sorta like, well, I hate bringing up the comparison, but you wouldnt want any kind of rats or whatever running around in your apartment either right? I don't dislike them in a racist kinda of way, but their way of life is just not compatible with most countries.

lets just replace like one word in here and see what it sounds like.

But it's not like racism against other "races" like in America, I've never even meet a white person, but you just know that they're up to no good, so I guess it's sorta like, well, I hate bringing up the comparison, but you wouldnt want any kind of rats or whatever running around in your apartment either right?

[Deleted]

what if that group of people is a race?

What does that have to do with anything? No group of people, regardless if they're of the same race or not, are 100% representative for every member of that race. Hating a whole race because of a group of people you don't like is stupid in my opinion.

[Gamdwelf]

What does that have to do with anything? No group of people, regardless if they're of the same race or not, are 100% representative for every member of that race. Hating a whole race because of a group of people you don't like is stupid in my opinion.

Well I was responding to somebody who said hating a group of people wasn't really like racism, but it is if that group of people is all from a single race.

[Deleted]

Well I was responding to somebody who said hating a group of people wasn't really like racism, but it is if that group of people is all from a single race.

Well, you responded to me and that's not what I said. I was trying to point out that not liking something is not the same as hating it. Racism is hate and hate is a more powerful feeling than something not being to your liking. The guy I quoted was trying to say the hate for gypsies comes from lack of reasons to like them, while I believe it comes from ignorance.

[Gamdwelf]

Well, you responded to me and that's not what I said. I was trying to point out that not liking something is not the same as hating it. Racism is hate and hate is a more powerful feeling than something not being to your liking. The guy I quoted was trying to say the hate for gypsies comes from lack of reasons to like them, while I believe it comes from ignorance.

oh well sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Deleted]

only a few things about them;
- the prejuices you heard about them are true.
- they are protected by law
- you don't want to be around them

[Deleted]

To be honest I don't know much about problems gypsies allegedly cause, but I have to say I was appalled at the conduct of the debate surrounding Dale Farm.

[Deleted]

Gypsies here usually do not finish high school, let alone going to university.
Most people here don't know what they do for a living, except selling products at faires. They also don't pay taxes, speak too loud, like they own the place, and if you get a problem with one of them, the rest of the family jumps on you. They also don't socialize much.

In a country where having guns without a license is crime, they sure keep a supply of them, so I don't trust them at all.
A family used to live at the end of my street 10 years ago. One day, the PSP came here to "flush them out". They found out an armory of stolen guns, ranging from revolvers, rifles, and shotguns with sawn barrels, not to mention drugs.

So yeah, interesting guys.

[Deleted]

only a few things about them;
- the prejuices you heard about them are true.
- they are protected by law
- you don't want to be around them

- Are all prejudices I hear about black people true as well?
- Why don't you hate the lawmaker then? If your race was protected by law and some members of your race would take advantage of that, should I hate your race as well?
- Some of them are accomplished musicians, some are educated and well-spoken.. Why would I mind being around people like that?

[Deleted]

So I was talking with a couple Euro buddies of mine and somehow we got into a conversation about gypsies.

From what they were saying is that the racism in Europe towards the gypsy people makes American racism look tame in comparision.....Then went into a diatribe into why Euro hatred of gypsy peoples is justified.

They mentioned theivery, Expliotation of welfare services, and lack of education.

I'm asking from a position of ignorance, so maybe some of the euros here in this forum can answer the question....

Whats with the insitutionalized hatred of gypsies. Is there any validity to what they were saying?

Yes, the so called "racism" is justified. They are plague of my country, murdering 70 years old ppl for 5 €, or beating them up till they stop breath. Robbing and assaulting little kids when they go from school for money, not attending to school even when they got PAID for it.

Yes you read it right, that human garbage is actually getting paid for attending to school. 9 out of 10 people here will say that they dont want gypsies in country. My country has yearly deficit usually about 4 bilion €, 1 bilion is wasted on gypsies---> 25% of our deficit.

Ofcourse there are some exceptions, some gypsies 1-3% actually tries to work and live like civilized people do, the rest behaves worse than cattle. Im talking from my own experience, so I dont need to hear bullshit from other ppl who never saw dirty, lazy, stinky gypsy.

Also, after they destroy and dismantle the houses or block of flat where they lived in, they get new one for FREE !!!! They dont need to take loan and work/pay it, they get it for free....its disgusting.....one day they will be dealt with swiftly, then my country can prosper.

Unfortunately one man with funny mustache didnt finish his task, but the time will come.

Infracted

[Gamdwelf]

Unfortunately one man with funny mustache didnt finish his task, but the time will come.

Can't believe I'm reading this right now.

[Deleted]

Can't believe I'm reading this right now.

He also has a soviet avatar, kind of contradicts himself a little.

[Deleted]

Can't believe I'm reading this right now.

Come here and live near gypsy village for one week, you either hang your self, they hang you or you flee as fast as you can. They are not behaving as people therefor they should not be treated like people.

---------- Post added 2012-06-01 at 08:21 PM ----------

He also has a soviet avatar, kind of contradicts himself a little.

Good old soviets knew how to deal with lazy ppl and criminals, Siberia has enough place for everyone.

[Deleted]

Also, after they destroy and dismantle the houses or block of flat where they lived in, they get new one for FREE !!!! They dont need to take loan and work/pay it, they get it for free....its disgusting.....one day they will be dealt with swiftly, then my country can prosper.

Unfortunately one man with funny mustache didnt finish his task, but the time will come.

Yeah, the reason Slovakia can't prosper is the gypsies... right That's what funny-moustache man thought about the jews, you know.

And i wonder how the exceptions are treated (is it a wonder they don't finish education when those who try are treated like this?).

Integrating a group of people into a society is hard work, but it pays in the end, because you increase the total intelligence available. Punishing those who attempt to integrate themselves since early age is definitely the wrong way to show them the benefits of moving away from the fringe of society and becoming part of the core.

[Deleted]

Yeah, the reason Slovakia can't prosper is the gypsies... right That's what funny-moustache man thought about the jews, you know.

And i wonder how the exceptions are treated (is it a wonder they don't finish education when those who try are treated like this?).

Integrating a group of people into a society is hard work, but it pays in the end, because you increase the total intelligence available. Punishing those who attempt to integrate themselves since early age is definitely the wrong way to show them the benefits of moving away from the fringe of society and becoming part of the core.

Hahaha, I knew people like you will come and bash me. The goverment spent billions on "integration", but they DO NOT want to integrate.... is it hard to grasp that point ? They dont care about education, they DO NOT want to work even when the goverment gives them work, they just WILL NOT work, understood ?

[Deleted]

Gypsies, generally either buy land which cannot be developed, or they take over other peoples land without consent. In theory they can be removed, however legal red-tape means it takes time. During this time they develop it and more move, as a result of more people being present the legal orders (generally along the lines of 'moving x families') are therefore no longer valid. Causing a longer delay on removing them.

Gypsies generally will not mention being gypsies when ordering/planning anything, because of the justifiable stereotypes. They will do the eat and run or as mentioned claim to order more than they have and make a nuisance (intimation of shop/restaurant owners, making it so people don't want to be there which would be worse for the businesses than giving into the gypsies)

Gypsies will do the fraud, they are the most common cowboy builders (do half a job and vanish, or do a poor job) they are probably the most common scrap metal theifs etc.

With their houses i find it ironic that they weren't removed from places such as Dale Farm for a long time because of loss of homes yet people who build houses or extensions without permission (Even been causes where its like an a few cms larger than its supposed to be) have had their homes/extensions taken down.

regarding the traveller tag with dale farm a large portion of them in dale farm OWNED property in ireland and frequently stayed there so they had homes to move too. Also by definition a traveller TRAVELS, as such they should not have a need for permanent residence since they should be travelling. In staying at a residence and not travelling then they no longer become travellers and become normal citizens and live as others (the culture can still exist but conform with taxes/schools etc)

Again including Dale farm, ironically the people who seemed to be pro-site were either rich (stuck-up) people who would no doubt never encounter them, and would no doubt kick off if they moved near them or people who due to gypsies actually come out looking better than they are.

I don't mind if a person is black, gay, different religion or any other minority in an area BUT the moment someone uses the race/religion/colour as an excuse they are the ones that are ruining life for others in that minority. With regard to those that are the criminal gypsies and use the gypsy card to protect themselves are what causes the problems for the rest of them. I wouldn't be suprised if its only a small portion of the camps that cause the social problems that causes the hatred of the camps in general

[Gamdwelf]

Hahaha, I knew people like you will come and bash me. The goverment spent billions on "integration", but they DO NOT want to integrate.... is it hard to grasp that point ? They dont care about education, they DO NOT want to work even when the goverment gives them work, they just WILL NOT work, understood ?

People might come bash you because you continue to make bigoted ignorant statements.

[Deleted]

Good old soviets knew how to deal with lazy ppl and criminals, Siberia has enough place for everyone.

"Good old soviets" also sent people to Siberia just because they had different ideas. My grandfather was a professor who ran a Yoga magazine in his free time. He went to prison (here in Romania, not Siberia) because the russian occupation forces deemed it subversive material. Forgive me if I question the methods of the "good old soviets".