Which race has the saddest background?

[Deleted]

The Orcs chose their own fate far more so than the Draenei did. 'Join the legion or die' isn't a great example of free choice and good options.

So when the Draenei were tricked by the legion you think. THEY WERE TRICKED!! The poor Draenei! but when the Orcs were tricked by the legion you think HAHA STUPID ORCS! They choose to be tricked! Wacky. It's the exact same scenario for both races.

[Samyaaza]

Draenei closely followed by the forsaken.

[Verdugo]

I'm not sure how you can 'be better off' when you cease to exist.

I dont know how you define existance, but from what I have seen, Eredar definitely exist.

[sam86]

The Draenei were tricked. Sargeras offered them immense power, telling them nothing of the consequences.

Again in Rise of the Horde Velen told them of consequences (and his visions) but none of them saw it as "consequences", they joined him because they believed that getting immense power (even if it involves destroy the world) IS the good idea, even KJ consider Velen escape as betraying him because that is the "right" pass to them
Actually if you look at Sargeras POV he does what he believes is the right thing, not what he thinks is wrong, of course the "right" thing for him is very wrong for most titans' creations, since it involves wiping them out of existence

[Ultramonkey]

Draenei: Offered power for loyalty.
Orcs: Offered power for loyalty.

Looks pretty similar to me.



I'm not sure how you can 'be better off' when you cease to exist.

Draenei were offered the power and knowledge for loyalty, two of the three leaders accepted even when the third warned them of the consequences. The Orcs were offered power to counter the impending Draenei attack they were told of.

Yes both exactly the same.../sarcasm

[Lightfist]

Well, now you've called me wrong.

*cracks knuckles*

Let's get to work.

Wrong
http://www.wowpedia.org/Sargeras
"Sargeras has changed over the millennia. While he once served his race as guardian and protector, he is now the titans' worst enemy. Sargeras works to undo what the titans have strived for ages to achieve"

The Legion's mission is, in theory, to undo the works of the titans and restore the universe back to its original, chaotic and disorganized state. In practice, the Legion scours all life from the worlds it invades, they are cursed to roam the greater realms forever to consume the primal energies of magic to survive.

Though, in all fairness, I suppose saying 'completely wrong' is a bit harsh. I'll just leave it at 'wrong' next time.

Again wrong: Death Knights while were suspected were welcomed to the alliance, Varian didn't try to burn them on sight, and actually listened to them, that did not happen to most of Forsaken, at least in their first days (if you follow Legends story
http://www.wowpedia.org/Legends) Not to mention some of vanilla quests in undead start area, I recall some quests from Brill inn (it had unique music that found only in brill and RFD for very long time)

Death Knights had the closest link to the Lich King, and underwent the most physical pain. If I remember, this pain remained even after they were freed.

Also, of course the Forsaken weren't welcomed at first! How the hell do you expect your average person to welcome you with open arms after their entire kingdom has just been destroyed by things that look just like you? Not to mention that as soon as they got humans to work with them, they fucking betrayed them and killed them all! WHILE WORKING WITH A GOD DAMNED DEMON!

It's like hanging a fucking sign above your head that reads, "We're evil, don't trust us, we'll stab you."

And most of Draenei race are evil, 2 of 3 went with Sargeras (after retcon) not other way around, if you want to use "they brought on themselves" card, it would suit the Eredar better, the only race where most people went to pure evil willingly, orcs were tricked badly (I remember the line "our ancestors will never lie to us") (also not sure of orcs in MoP anymore), forsaken hate their existence with everything else, humans politics brought more issues than anyone can swallow (alterac - defias - etc)

Seriously, where are you people getting this misguided notion that it was only the poor w'ittle Orcs who got tricked? What part of 'Sargeras offered them power without informing them of the conditions' do you not understand? Is it the part where it wasn't someone with 'the Deceiver' attached to their name?

[Topornic]

Draenei for sure.
The Forsaken's history is also sad, though it's connected with blood elves and humans history much, so can't be really considered one race imo (and only time AFTER being freed from Arthas's will by Sylvanas makes them united under one banner and so only further events can be counted).
However I've always felt pretty much sad about blood elves history (Get ur homeland ravaged by Scourge, betrayed by your own leader, constant suffering after Sunwell being destroyed - mana hunger, some of them died during the Scourge siege and then got rezzed as Undead - not so fun either)

[vizzle]

I can't see how anyone can say Elves, the majority of the bad things that occured to them has been their own doing.

Yeah, they asked Arthas to fuck them up. Alright.

[Verdugo]

Seriously, where are you people getting this misguided notion that it was only the poor w'ittle Orcs who got tricked? What part of 'Sargeras offered them power without informing them of the conditions' do you not understand? Is it the part where it wasn't someone with 'the Deceiver' attached to their name?

Again, what condition are you talking about. You talk about them like if they got cancer, yet all that happened was that they grew some horns and spikes. By your logic, humans are abominations, mutated spawns of Vrykul, which themselves are infested by curse of flesh.

[Lightfist]

I dont know how you define existance, but from what I have seen, Eredar definitely exist.

Not as their former selves.

Again in Rise of the Horde Velen told them of consequences (and his visions) but none of them saw it as "consequences", they joined him because they believed that getting immense power (even if it involves destroy the world) IS the good idea, even KJ consider Velen escape as betraying him because that is the "right" pass to them

Sargeras told the Eredar that they would be bringers of enlightenment. I don't understand how you people can argue that this isn't being tricked. It's seriously the textbook definition of a trick.

a crafty or underhanded device, maneuver, stratagem, or the like, intended to deceive or cheat.

Actually if you look at Sargeras POV he does what he believes is the right thing, not what he thinks is wrong, of course the "right" thing for him is very wrong for most titans' creations, since it involves wiping them out of existence

He believes this because he is insane.

---------- Post added 2012-09-30 at 04:53 AM ----------

Again, what condition are you talking about. You talk about them like if they got cancer, yet all that happened was that they grew some horns and spikes. By your logic, humans are abominations, mutated spawns of Vrykul, which themselves are infested by curse of flesh.

They were corrupted by Fel energy and turned into demons. This changed everything about them - including their emotions, ideals, and ambitions.

Also, humans are abominations. The only difference is they retained their minds.

[Ultramonkey]

Yeah, they asked Arthas to fuck them up. Alright.

No abusing the Well of Eternity, no Burning Legion. No Burning Legion, no Ner'zhul. No Ner'zhul, no Lich King. No Lich King, no corrupted Arthas.

[Salandrin]

Yeah, they asked Arthas to fuck them up. Alright.

This is really ironic. But Dar'Khan is in fact, the reason Arthas got into Quel'thalas.

[vizzle]

This is really ironic. But Dar'Khan is in fact, the reason Arthas got into Quel'thalas.

So the actions of one guy should define the entire race?

[Lightfist]

So the actions of one guy should define the entire race?

Well, Sylvanas did also sort of taunt him and piss him off until he decided to kill them all. But, that's going into the Forsaken as well.

Really, if you want to look at it like that, most races' tragedies can be traced to a few of their own kind.

[Ultramonkey]

So the actions of one guy should define the entire race?

So it wasn't an Elf who helped Arthas assault the Sunwell? My point still stands that the majority of bad things that happen to Elves is their own doing.

[vizzle]

No abusing the Well of Eternity, no Burning Legion. No Burning Legion, no Ner'zhul. No Ner'zhul, no Lich King. No Lich King, no corrupted Arthas.

There's a point where it starts to be ridiculous to trace it back that far. That point is easily passed when you get to thousands of years.

---------- Post added 2012-09-30 at 05:04 PM ----------

So it wasn't an Elf who helped Arthas assault the Sunwell? My point still stands that the majority of bad things that happen to Elves is their own doing.

I just answered the last guy. One man's actions doesn't define the entire race.

[Ultramonkey]

There's a point where it starts to be ridiculous to trace it back that far. That point is easily passed when you get to thousands of years.

---------- Post added 2012-09-30 at 05:04 PM ----------



I just answered the last guy. One man's actions doesn't define the entire race.

Tracing it back over a thousand years makes it irrelevant? That's like saying the Romans would no longer be able to take credit for building roads.

The Elves abused the Well of Eternity which sprung a chain reaction which has gone on for millennia, time does not nullify the Damage the Sundering has done.

[vizzle]

Tracing it back over a thousand years makes it irrelevant? That's like saying the Romans would no longer be able to take credit for building roads.

The Elves abused the Well of Eternity which sprung a chain reaction which has gone on for millennia, time does not nullify the Damage the Sundering has done.

No, that's like saying that the Romans are the reason why people die in car crashes in 2012, because they built roads in the first place. It's idiotic to take it back that far. It's like saying I broke my arm in basketball practice because my dad gave me a basketball when I was 2 years old. It leads up to it, but that doesn't mean you should connect the dots there.

[Ultramonkey]

No, that's like saying that the Romans are the reason why people die in car crashes in 2012, because they built roads in the first place. It's idiotic to take it back that far. It's like saying I broke my arm in basketball practice because my dad gave me a basketball when I was 2 years old. It leads up to it, but that doesn't mean you should connect the dots there.

Except it is nothing like any of those examples. The Burning Legion's attention was dragged to Azeroth's direction when they sensed the power being abused at the Sunwell. Like I said everything that involves the Burning Legion is a byproduct of the Night Elves actions.

[Thelxi]

Draenei obviously. Close second would be Blood (high) Elves.