Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[duskylol]

Personally if I didn't kill them outright from the initial shot, I'd let them bleed out... while walking to the police station to report the crime. Such a shame that my cellphone was smashed during the scuttle

If you break into my home, you are going to die one way or another. Have you ever heard the phrase, "F*** with the wrong bull"? I'm that bull.

Extreme responses keep you safe, I learned that very young as a kid. People picked on me/bullied me a lot, eventually I got sick of it and this one kid was the straw that broke the camels back so to say. He pulled a stool out from under me when I went to sit down. Well, I got up and beat that kid with that metal shop stool right in class. I hit him on the back, and when he fell to the ground I beat his head with it, cracked it open. Blood was squirting out everywhere. Kid had to go get like 30+ stitches on his head. Nobody messed with me after that.

I don't know what's more fucked up. The fact you did that over some shitty ass prank, or the fact you seem proud of it.

These are the types of people who shouldn't be allowed to own deadly weaponry.

Edit: The thread where the two kids are shot for playing loud music. Yeah. Sorta like this guy above.

[ewhenn]

I don't know what's more fucked up. The fact you did that over some shitty ass prank, or the fact you seem proud of it.

These are the types of people who shouldn't be allowed to own deadly weaponry.

Edit: The thread where the two kids are shot for playing loud music. Yeah. Sorta like this guy above.

Pretty sure loud music didn't physically hurt me. Sitting down at the height of a drafting table (which is why we were using stools, not not a traditional chair) and falling onto a concrete floor because some ass**** moved my stool did hurt me, quite a bit actually (badly bruised tailbone and really hurt to walk/sit for a week or so).

I really don't get you, I was minding my own business and someone decided to F*** with me. I wasn't the aggressor, I just wanted to go to class and do my architectural drawing, yet somehow I'm the bad guy? It wasn't like it was a good mannered joke or whatever like you're trying to shrug it off as. The person in question was always a bully, doing things like tripping people in the stairwell and using scissors to cut a patch of someones hair off, verbally abusive, etc. So now standing up for yourself and not letting yourself get pushed around is bad?

Bottom line, I don't start problems with people, but I'll always bring the problem to a swift and definitive conclusion. He pulled my stool out from under me, so I beat him with it. As far as I'm concerned he had it coming, if I had it to do over again the only thing I'd change is to swing it harder as I beat him.

To be clear though: Doing something like putting hand lotion under your locker handle would be a prank, you wash it off and somebody else has a laugh. However, tripping someone down a stairwell is downright malicious. Cutting off a big chunk of someones hair isn't a prank, it's mean spirited and cruel. There's a pretty big difference between the two.

[Aristeus]

Pretty sure loud music didn't physically hurt me. Sitting down at the height of a drafting table (which is why we were using stools, not not a traditional chair) and falling onto a concrete floor because some ass**** moved my stool did hurt me, quite a bit actually (badly bruised tailbone and really hurt to walk/sit for a week or so).

I really don't get you, I was minding my own business and someone decided to F*** with me. I wasn't the aggressor, I just wanted to go to class and do my architectural drawing, yet somehow I'm the bad guy? It wasn't like it was a good mannered joke or whatever like you're trying to shrug it off as. The person in question was always a bully, doing things like tripping people in the stairwell and using scissors to cut a patch of someones hair off, verbally abusive, etc. So now standing up for yourself and not letting yourself get pushed around is bad?

Bottom line, I don't start problems with people, but I'll always bring the problem to a swift and definitive conclusion. He pulled my stool out from under me, so I beat him with it. As far as I'm concerned he had it coming, if I had it to do over again the only thing I'd change is to swing it harder as I beat him.

To be clear though: Doing something like putting hand lotion under your locker handle would be a prank, you wash it off and somebody else has a laugh. However, tripping someone down a stairwell is downright malicious. Cutting off a big chunk of someones hair isn't a prank, it's mean spirited and cruel. There's a pretty big difference between the two.

I've thrown people down stairs. I have banged peoples heads into metal poles, brick walls, sharp jagged desks, I have stabbed people with pens/pencils becuase I was bullied. I don't regret it, but I sure as hell don't pride my self on losing control and causing significant damage to my bullies. I don't think if I go back in time I would try to hurt them even more. This shows you haven't moved on and you're lingering behind if you honestly think that. I did what I had to do, I don't take pride in it though... it's more, well it happened I would have preferred if it didn't. You're older, move on from your bullies, saying you would do it even worse if you went back in time just shows you're stuck/lingering/ not advancing well. Move the hell on already.

[Deleted]

Personally if I didn't kill them outright from the initial shot, I'd let them bleed out... while walking to the police station to report the crime. Such a shame that my cellphone was smashed during the scuttle

If you break into my home, you are going to die one way or another. Have you ever heard the phrase, "F*** with the wrong bull"? I'm that bull.

Extreme responses keep you safe, I learned that very young as a kid. People picked on me/bullied me a lot, eventually I got sick of it and this one kid was the straw that broke the camels back so to say. He pulled a stool out from under me when I went to sit down. Well, I got up and beat that kid with that metal shop stool right in class. I hit him on the back, and when he fell to the ground I beat his head with it, cracked it open. Blood was squirting out everywhere. Kid had to go get like 30+ stitches on his head. Nobody messed with me after that.

Aaaaand this guy has a gun YUHUUUU!!!

[Purlina]

Personally if I didn't kill them outright from the initial shot, I'd let them bleed out... while walking to the police station to report the crime. Such a shame that my cellphone was smashed during the scuttle

If you break into my home, you are going to die one way or another. Have you ever heard the phrase, "F*** with the wrong bull"? I'm that bull.

Extreme responses keep you safe, I learned that very young as a kid. People picked on me/bullied me a lot, eventually I got sick of it and this one kid was the straw that broke the camels back so to say. He pulled a stool out from under me when I went to sit down. Well, I got up and beat that kid with that metal shop stool right in class. I hit him on the back, and when he fell to the ground I beat his head with it, cracked it open. Blood was squirting out everywhere. Kid had to go get like 30+ stitches on his head. Nobody messed with me after that.

I think the bullying has damaged you emotionally / mentally.

Please seek help immediately.

[Deleted]

What if he lied, and the teens weren't robbers? I guess no one can really know... From reading the article I believe the guy went too far. You are allowed to defend your house, but is shooting really necessary? If they weren't armed then you didn't had to shoot, or you could shoot on the floor to warn them or see if they were armed. Imo learn to shoot to the legs, thent hey are crippled and can't do a thing, you then can call the police. Shooting them in the head, excecuting them is no longer a line of defense mechanism but murder.

The children were wrong to be in the house and to rob, but something just feels fishy about reading the article...why on a holiday would teens rob? Did they had a excuse at all, if they were role models and were nice people I doubt they would rob, or even laugh evil at the guy. >.> Something doesn't feel right.

[h4rr0d]

Did they have a weapon? This man should be charged with first-degree murder, and his words make that pretty obvious.

Even if they didn't, should he have waited till the burglars had him on gunpoint before opening fire? Only thing he did wrong was not being able to kill them on first shot. That's what he's allowed to do. Executing them afterwards I don't agree with though.

[semaphore]

Even if they didn't, should he have waited till the burglars had him on gunpoint before opening fire?

That's just strawmaning.

Only thing he did wrong was not being able to kill them on first shot. That's what he's allowed to do. Executing them afterwards I don't agree with though.

That's self-contradictory. If the only thing he did wrong was not one-shotting the intruders, then that means you think he wasn't wrong to execute them afterwards.

[h4rr0d]

That's just strawmaning.

From where I come from it's called hyperbole.

That's self-contradictory. If the only thing he did wrong was not one-shotting the intruders, then that means you think he wasn't wrong to execute them afterwards.

No. If he killed them with first shot that would have been self defense as warranted by the US law. Once injured (especially after falling down the stairs), you can't really justify that by self defense anymore.

[Porcell]

That's self-contradictory. If the only thing he did wrong was not one-shotting the intruders, then that means you think he wasn't wrong to execute them afterwards.

It is NOT contradictory. There is a difference between killing someone in self defense (the first volley of shots) and killing someone later (moving the body and finishing them off). The first is justifiable homicide, the second is murder.

[semaphore]

It is NOT contradictory. There is a difference between killing someone in self defense (the first volley of shots) and killing someone later (moving the body and finishing them off). The first is justifiable homicide, the second is murder.

I know there is. I've been saying that all thread. I'm pointing out that the poster I quoted said not one shotting them first is "the only thing" that this killer did wrong. Clearly, executing defenceless people afterwards, is pretty fucking wrong.

---------- Post added 2012-12-04 at 04:09 PM ----------

From where I come from it's called hyperbole.

Same thing. Saying executing people is murder, which it is, doesn't mean you aren't allowed to shoot intruders when reasonably fearing for your lives.

No. If he killed them with first shot that would have been self defense as warranted by the US law. Once injured (especially after falling down the stairs), you can't really justify that by self defense anymore.

I guess I wasn't clear. I'm saying it's clearly not the only thing he did wrong, because he went far beyond legal self defense with the execution(s).

[Alwayshealing]

I hope he gets to spend his remainder years behind bars. If I were elderly and in my basement I would grab a phone, lock the door, call 911 and sit tight. Now hide at the bottom of the stairs and wait for target practice. After seeing they were young kids you would think he would hold his gun up threatening them to go. But he went so far to keep the young girl in pain and drag her to his basement til that blow to the head that ended her life.

[kabshiel]

He Bernie Goetz-ed them? Good for him.

[Snorri]

I hope he gets to spend his remainder years behind bars. If I were elderly and in my basement I would grab a phone, lock the door, call 911 and sit tight. Now hide at the bottom of the stairs and wait for target practice. After seeing they were young kids you would think he would hold his gun up threatening them to go. But he went so far to keep the young girl in pain and drag her to his basement til that blow to the head that ended her life.

It's easy to say what you would do and not do, especially when you have not been in a similar situation as him. You think it would be so simple to just lock your door and wait it out? What if you have no phone? What if the intruders see you and try to kick down the door? What if they are armed? What if they threaten your family? You don't take risks like that. Those intruders got what they deserved. They chose to break into another man's house and paid the consequences.

[tombstoner139]

It's easy to say what you would do and not do, especially when you have not been in a similar situation as him. You think it would be so simple to just lock your door and wait it out? What if you have no phone? What if the intruders see you and try to kick down the door? What if they are armed? What if they threaten your family? You don't take risks like that. Those intruders got what they deserved. They chose to break into another man's house and paid the consequences.

Exactly.
To explain his actions during the shooting and the next day. I think hes going to claim insanity as a result of the shooting.
It's not like he tried to hide the bodies. he tried to figure out what to do next. He sought advice from a neighbor, who then called the police. psychotic breaks can and do happen. This can manifest in say.. moving the bodies... or Mersey killing.

if the man lest say caught and kept 2 teenage burglars for a few days then executed them and tried to hid the bodies... i would have no sympathy for him and i think he should suffer under the full extend of biblical and modern law. He reacted in a way that defended himself and property.

Since this is a gaming forum a gaming reference is justified. I'm currently playing planet sides 2 a FPS. some times the adrenalin rush from a computer simulation with no death penalty can generate a small amount of stress. now magnify that with being in your basement, when people break in. presumably to rob you or something worse. If a gaming analogy is not to your liking remember walking home alone alone at night. both are real world shadows of what this man experienced.

Combat either in the military or police action will change you. we recognize it as post traumatic stress disorder. To think that an average home owner is also not vulnerably to traumatic stress during a robbery or realizing he just killed 2 teens, is unjustified and condemning him is extremely short sighted.

[Deleted]

It's easy to say what you would do and not do, especially when you have not been in a similar situation as him. You think it would be so simple to just lock your door and wait it out? What if you have no phone? What if the intruders see you and try to kick down the door? What if they are armed? What if they threaten your family? You don't take risks like that. Those intruders got what they deserved. They chose to break into another man's house and paid the consequences.

Agree with what you said, but why execute them when they were half death? You have a gun, doesn't mean you have to kill them when they are on the floor and can't move. That is going too far. If you shoot them and they die that is self-defence, but shooting at them and dragging their bodies to the side to shoot them off there is murder.

[Ducon]

Irrelevant. He killed two teens, and especially the second one, when they poses absolutely no threat to any Reasonable Person.


She was shot and fell down the stairs, and then shot multiple times in the chest. How injured do you think she was?



You're not reading what I said. If his statements are true, he could not possibly be legally justified in that final execution shot. Even if he is still afraid for his life, that does not provide a valid defense for executing someone who no longer posed any threat whatsoever. If a tiger walks on the streets, you might be justifiably afraid for your life, but that does not give you permission to shoot the 6 year old kid cowering behind you.



Irrelevant. I said all murders have to be charged. Stop pretending I meant this case when I explicitly told you we were not. We're talking about slippery slopes for crying out loud.

How do you know teens didnt pose some kind of threat to shooter (if only imaginary)? Why are you assuming shooter was Reasonable Person? Why are you so eager to go to absolute truths without knowing all the facts?

[semaphore]

How do you know teens didnt pose some kind of threat to shooter

Because he was able to drag her around the basement and then execute her with a bullet shot from under her chin. That's not someone who poses a threat.

(if only imaginary)?

Imaginary threats do not, in fact, justify murder.

Why are you assuming shooter was Reasonbale Person?

I'm not.

[Ducon]

Because he was able to drag her around the basement and then execute her with a bullet shot from under her chin. That's not someone who poses a threat.

Maybe not for you or me. We dont know about shooter, do we?

Imaginary threats do not, in fact, justify murder.

Never said such thing.

[anthemm]

Why is it that every other week someone posts a story of someone shooting another person on here? Why is it that the Left demands that the Second Amendment be eviscerated? Does the Left blindly trust that the government will never become destructive of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness? I think the 20th Century is an example of what happens when government is given unlimited power and the individual is seen as nothing more than a luxury.

According to the following table, homicide is the last cause of death in this country: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf

The document contains the following: "In 2009, 31,347 persons died from firearm injuries in the United States, accounting for 17.7% of all injury deaths that year. The two major component causes of all firearm injury deaths in 2009 were suicide (59.8%) and homicide (36.7%). Firearm injuries (all intents) decreased 1.9% from 2008 to 2009."

The population was 305 million in 2009. 31,347 firearm-related deaths, of which 11,504 were specifically homicide, is hardly a catastrophic number in relation to 305 million people. Needless to say, if you have a working brain you'll realize that many of those homicides were conducted by criminals, who will and have always had access to firearms thanks to the inability of a government to police every nook and cranny of society. South Park's the Toilet Security Administration isn't a far cry from what some people demand of their government.

Compare that number to the number of lives the American government takes every year from wars.

And you only need to go back to the Civil War to realize the American government is more than willing to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans if the government believes its cause is justified.

I'm sick and tired of all of the Leftists demanding that the Second Amendment be abolished, when homicide-related deaths are so utterly low relative to other causes of death. The Left demands a utopia and demands it now, even though by getting rid of the Second Amendment, this country will only have taken a baby step towards utopia--or perhaps a giant step backwards in the ability of Americans to defend themselves from all enemies foreign and domestic.