I don't see how MoP can't be the best expansion.

[Sephurik]

I like the tokens but their just frustrating to. Constantly loosing rolls got on my fucking nerves. Valor point gain is slow. The valor cap is to little and the items and upgrades themselves cost to much. It just feels like nothing you do really rewards you any more and even the sure fire ways you could get rewards are so fucking gimped. I also don't think it's what players meant when they said they were bored and wanted something to do. wanting something to do doesn't mean that the game has to be less rewarding, it just means Blizzard needs to shape up and release end game tiers at a faster rate.

This is some wild theorizing, but I'm thinking that the main underlying issue is that the progression became too artificially gated. It may seem obvious, but I'll try to explain.

Essentially I'm thinking that focus shifted somehow with Mists. In previous expansions we had more freedom with what we wanted to pursue (partly through rep tabards in dungeons). Valor's sources were fewer than now, but they also filled it up faster. The design moved to putting a lot of things behind dailies, which besides it being an artificial gate, creates issues with people (like me) who would rather binge some of these things out over only a couple of days. Having so much locked behind dailies makes them feel forced onto you and required, which can make it feel like a chore or job to get through it all. I think a current example of how to do a rep right would probably be the Cloud Serpents. You're not necessarily required to do the dailies to get it to exalted, but of course the issue with having something like this for all factions is that the tokens and Valor are locked into dailies. We don't get enough from other sources to opt out of them (especially raids).

[Toffie]

Fun is subjective. There could be some valid points in here, but alas people rarely ever spend the times to articulate them.

I just don't find it fun anymore, and i guess alot of people feel the same way. I gave the expansion a chance, but doing nothing but dailies burns you out. I just wish we could get some epic raids.

[yukikochan]

i liked TBC cause of the fact you still had todo instances on a per realm basis

[Cyraxe]

I know people say TBC was the best expansion EVER, but nostalgia aside...
What could you do in TBC? Other else than Heroics/Raid/PvP?

And this is coming from someone who started playing in 2004.

In MoP you have endless stuff to do.
On top of the Heroics/Raids/PvP, there is:

Treasure hunting, archeology titles
Pet battles (Which in itself is almost a game),
Farmville,
Achievement hunting (Achievements weren't out until late TBC)
Mount farming,
Scenarios,
World PvP is back

And I'm probably missing some.

Even though I had fun farming UBRS daily for 3+ months to get my Tier 0.5 Valor chest, I can say that I would had had a blast if MoP content was in there.

I have to disagree with you on all parts. I find that I enjoyed Wrath minus TOGC far more than any other expansion. I'm more of the pve'r and alt gearing type of person and Wrath had a crap ton of content not to mention split raid lockouts so there was lots to do.

Treasure hunting/arch titles? - The treasures found aren't great considering everything found is for a lvl86 so pretty useless to a max leveler. Titles? Since the profession was released there's been titles so nothing new there.

Pet battles? - I stopped playing pokemon when I was much younger for a reason. The idea of this aspect of the game is nice but not appealing whatsoever to me.

Farmville? - Anyone that finds anything at Halfhill fun needs help. Your farm is convenient especially when you have max nodes on multiple chars but beyond that, meh.

Achievement hunting? - Like you said, late TBC is when they were introduced but there's nothing new besides more achievements added so not really a valid point.

Mount farming? - This has been going on since vanilla so another invalid selling point.

Scenarios? - These to me are fun the 1st couple times but then it's not very appealing. Same thing with challenge modes. While I haven't done any challenge modes I don't find clearing an instance as fast as you can very fun.

World PvP back? - My server being pve only had world pvp in vanilla, some in tbc and extremely little in wotlk.

While this expansion is much better than Cataclysm imo it's not the best to me.

[Sephurik]

Pretty much the most sensible post in this thread so far.

Gotta love the people trying to settle what is fun or what isn't for everyone else, though. Not that it's anything new, but still somewhat amusing, in a sad way.

While this has some merit, we must also realize that a game isn't a very good game if it isn't fun. To reword, it isn't necessarily bad if it isn't fun, but then it doesn't feel like a game. People do get too worked up over this stuff, but I jumped into the thread because I saw at least one person trying to make a legitimate claim. These things are a tad paradoxical, as although we can never fully agree between people on what is fun, there are some broad categories and considerations that can be generally accepted enough to be worth discussing. The main issue is a lot of people ride bandwaggons and such, and a lot of people with valid complaints are either confrontational or don't know how to articulate them to the fullest degree. Then others who might disagree get confrontational back at others, and then the discussion doesn't exist anymore

[Deleted]

Pet battles suxx, seriously nobody in my friends list and my guild (about 40 people) do pet battles, it's juste useless AND boring.
Farmville... It's farmville ! I don't play wow to do farmville, if i wanna grow some stupid vegetables i play Agricultural Simulator.
Scenarios are not interesting and without good rewards, it's like a good quest, you do it one time and never do it again.

I'm ok with the other things you said, Mop is a good xpac, not as good as tbc or wrath, but much better than cata.

And you forgot the pandas, the stupid pandas, god i hate them, you see them everywhere, in the alliance, in the horde, in pandaland, lot of players playing fat and dumb female pandas and i'm probably sure there is a panda behind you right now.

Overall i like Mop but i just fu*king hate pandas.

[Sephurik]

I just don't find it fun anymore, and i guess alot of people feel the same way. I gave the expansion a chance, but doing nothing but dailies burns you out. I just wish we could get some epic raids.

The raids seem to be pretty good, but I have a heavy bias with that. I really haven't had a raid that I was completely against and just hated yet. You do have a point with dailies, which is something I'm trying to discuss at the moment.

[Deleted]

To all the people that are claiming MoP features are boring. What did you do in TBC/Wrath where there weren't any of those? I'll tell you, nothing.
TBC/wrath had pvp/hc/raiding. MoP has all the above plus the "useless boring" stuff.
You may make an argument about how MoP is equal to TBC/wrath because there are still only 3 things you can do, but implying that there was more stuff to do in tbc is simply a bullshit.

[Sephurik]

Pet battles suxx, seriously nobody in my friends list and my guild (about 40 people) do pet battles, it's juste useless AND boring.
Farmville... It's farmville ! I don't play wow to do farmville, if i wanna grow some stupid vegetables i play Agricultural Simulator.
Scenarios are not interesting and without good rewards, it's like a good quest, you do it one time and never do it again.

I'm ok with the other things you said, Mop is a good xpac, not as good as tbc or wrath, but much better than cata.

And you forgot the pandas, the stupid pandas, god i hate them, you see them everywhere, in the alliance, in the horde, in pandaland, lot of players playing fat and dumb female pandas and i'm probably sure there is a panda behind you right now.

Overall i like Mop but i just fu*king hate pandas.

The first point has too small a sample size to be of any real use, but its point isn't to be for everyone.
The second point is just a bad argument. I could replace farmville with any profession and get the same effect. You're not required to do this, I don't.
The third point actually has a real point forming, and I think this is pretty valid. They're a strange thing, but their purpose and rewards don't really make them very compelling at the moment.

You hating pandas doesn't really mean anything. Some people absolutely hate the art style of Borderlands, and while that seems foreign to me, it doesn't mean anything in any direction. Although I think I might be trying to do something here that thread was originally not designed to do....

[Deleted]

i loved wrath at its release.
i really enjoyed cata at its release
but MoP so far trumphed both in my opion in the release.

cant judge vanilla or BC, since i didnt play at their releases

[Deleted]

As I see it MoP is the worst exp. of WoW to date.
One thing is the many activities and options that came with MoP but I'm ever so tired of the eternal gating in this exp.
It's like an entire exp. build like Molten Front - grinding and gating all the way.

Also the cliché with Pandas in an Asian environment - come on, it not only lame but it's as far from fantasy as you can come.

At best I'd give MoP the rating 4/10

[rakhakash]

I hit 90 a few days ago and I find myself (yet again) clueless of what I want to do first. There's just so many stuff I want to do. Level reputations, collect mounts, do some pet battles. Yes, I think MoP is the best expansion so far. Blizzard knows how to top the things they create time and time again!

[Moradim]

its a decent xpac. I still think wotlk for one is stronger both for levelling zones, levelling speed/pace, and raid content.

you can make a case for wotlk solely based on ulduar. although there were other good things as well, both for raid content and pvp (wintergrasp).

dailies...are ok. but it's just overkill right now. there is a reason why the isle of quel'danas is empty. or molten front. once people do them once, or get what rewards they want, they move on.

I would LOVE to see less emphasis on dailies and more on other content. lets make this game a little more interesting. scenarios are a good idea, but offer little incentive. challenge modes are essentially about what classes you bring (get a dk tank, 3 ranged dps, and you are good to go), and lfr....well, I hate the new system for alts primarily. gearing is S L O W. 1k valor CAP a week. 3k max.

i like mop, but it's far from perfect. wotlk wasnt perfect either, but I think it had a lot more going for it at the time.

[killidan]

I know people say TBC was the best expansion EVER, but nostalgia aside...
What could you do in TBC? Other else than Heroics/Raid/PvP?

And this is coming from someone who started playing in 2004.

In MoP you have endless stuff to do.
On top of the Heroics/Raids/PvP, there is:

Treasure hunting, archeology titles
Pet battles (Which in itself is almost a game),
Farmville,
Achievement hunting (Achievements weren't out until late TBC)
Mount farming,
Scenarios,
World PvP is back

And I'm probably missing some.

Even though I had fun farming UBRS daily for 3+ months to get my Tier 0.5 Valor chest, I can say that I would had had a blast if MoP content was in there.

What a joke

[Deleted]

I know people say TBC was the best expansion EVER, but nostalgia aside...
What could you do in TBC? Other else than Heroics/Raid/PvP?

And this is coming from someone who started playing in 2004.

In MoP you have endless stuff to do.
On top of the Heroics/Raids/PvP, there is:

Treasure hunting, archeology titles
Pet battles (Which in itself is almost a game),
Farmville,
Achievement hunting (Achievements weren't out until late TBC)
Mount farming,
Scenarios,
World PvP is back

And I'm probably missing some.

Even though I had fun farming UBRS daily for 3+ months to get my Tier 0.5 Valor chest, I can say that I would had had a blast if MoP content was in there.

Hard 5man HC
Good world pvp
Raid progression
You could only do 5man hc once a day not spam it 20 times till your item drops.
Group quests that require 5 people.
Atunements
Only 1 raid difficulty
Multiple tiers of raid were available at start and Black Temple went life before any guild in the world had completed the atunement to enter it (No one had kill Kael in TK)
AV was still fun to do.
If you wanted cool mounts you had some dailys or reps you could farm to get them too.
Maxing out a profession actually meant something has you could upgrade the BOP gear you crafted.
You had to travel to dungeons and raids. witch made world pvp fun.

you had more things to do because simple you didnt care about maxing out valor or spaming spaming dungeons for justice gear or spam it till you get your drop.

You had more time to enjoy alts, do pvp, farm, or simple help out friends.


For fun i used to change spec and go prot on my paladin and pull all mobs in a dungeons and see if i could survive while giving boost to my friends alts.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

What a joke

I know right? People thought TBC was best ha. Glad we can agree.

[roahn the warlock]

The thing is that people were complaining that there was too little to do.
People always complain.

The people who complained there was nothing to do, are not the people complaining there is too much. people always generalize

[Leonard McCoy]

The people who complained there was nothing to do, are not the people complaining there is too much. people always generalize

And the people who were complaining their was nothing to do were complaining that 9 months without a content patch is to long and furthermore they weren't specifically asking for daily quest. No Blizzard interpreted their wish to mean we want to go slower and we want the game to be grindier so we always have something to do. That is a mistaken interpretation I feel.

[killidan]

Heroics are a joke. FACEROLL.

PvP? What PvP?

Treasure hunting, archeology titles: Archeology is as BORING as ever.

Pet battles (Which in itself is almost a game), LOL

Farmville, Just a bunch of grindy quest. RIP OFF fomr a facebook game. Not the lowest Blizzard swooped tho (see pet battles above)

Achievement hunting (Achievements weren't out until late TBC) OLD NEWS, achievements been around for 3 expansions now. Besides, you collected 100 pieces of crap? ACHIEVEMENT! You died to fire twice in the same boss fight? ACHIEVEMENT!

Mount farming, BORING and OLD NEWS

And I'm probably missing some.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Heroics are a joke. FACEROLL. Good thing you have Challenge Mode for people who want it hard *pun not intended*

PvP? What PvP? Can't comment on PvP since I don't do it.

Treasure hunting, archeology titles: Archeology is as BORING as ever. Arch may not be for everyone but treasure hunting has nothing to do with it

Pet battles (Which in itself is almost a game), LOL Just "LOL"? Come on.

Farmville, Just a bunch of grindy quest. RIP OFF fomr a facebook game. Not the lowest Blizzard swooped tho (see pet battles above) It's based on Harvest Moon, not that farmville shit. If you're going to rip on something you should get it right next time.

Achievement hunting (Achievements weren't out until late TBC) OLD NEWS, achievements been around for 3 expansions now. Besides, you collected 100 pieces of crap? ACHIEVEMENT! You died to fire twice in the same boss fight? ACHIEVEMENT!
Neither of your examples are achievements. And also, Achievements were only in TBC a month before Wrath. It was meant for Wrath but came in the pre-patch.
One other thing, Blizzard brought in many quest achievements that bring people into the world. Isn't that something you want?

Mount farming, BORING and OLD NEWS That's your opinion and I respect that, but most people love mount farming. *most as in from what I seen*

And I'm probably missing some.

My points are in red.