Execute damage -25%.

[Darkfriend]

I wonder if they will chance the T14 4piece bonus if the Reck change goes live. 30 sec CD on reck could be fun for a while :P

They are reducing it to a 90 second reduction instead of 150 second.

[sjsctt]

I actually agree with you. Especially since SJ is flat out wrong lol. Numbers, or reasons folks, not this "this is my anecdotal evidence." It's not conducive to a good discussion.

Allow me to present some numbers.

Execute for me...in 500 ilvl gear....CDs popped....1.8million damage.

Post Nerf = 1.8mil - (.25*1.8mil)= 1.35 million damage

Being that my DPs is top 3 going into sub 20, please enlighten me as to what ability (boss or player) hits this hard.

Like I said...I LOVE the CURRENT state of warriors. I just do not buy into the "sky is falling, here we go back to cataclysim" rational that many people seem to be falling into. If we survived ulduar needs and dragon soul, we can certainly do just fine with a 25% execute Nerf. I do hope they make a glyph to take 10% from BT/CD/rb and redistribute it to execute though.

[Kankipappa]

Allow me to present some numbers.

Execute for me...in 500 ilvl gear....CDs popped....1.8million damage.

Post Nerf = 1.8mil - (.25*1.8mil)= 1.35 million damage

Being that my DPs is top 3 going into sub 20, please enlighten me as to what ability (boss or player) hits this hard.

Like I said...I LOVE the CURRENT state of warriors. I just do not buy into the "sky is falling, here we go back to cataclysim" rational that many people seem to be falling into. If we survived ulduar needs and dragon soul, we can certainly do just fine with a 25% execute Nerf. I do hope they make a glyph to take 10% from BT/CD/rb and redistribute it to execute though.

Btw, it's more than -25% due to base damage and scaling nerf. Although probably only few precents more, depending what is the base execute dmg now without any AP scaling, but anyway...

For me Execute crits around 400-500k when trinkets/banners are up, add up colossus+potion there and when stars have aligned I've seen high as +800k executes without any extra damage modifiers. However those are rare and 600-700k's at tops are more common for me. Raging blow already at start of the match with recklessness+prepot does ~300k on main and 175-200k offhand and those are fairly common values for me, so when you add those in and count flat -25% on my execute numbers you might ask yourself, will it be actually that better anymore?

As TG fury at least.

[cFortyfive]

Allow me to present some numbers.

Execute for me...in 500 ilvl gear....CDs popped....1.8million damage.

Not going into how meaningless that number is - so you are critting for 1,8 million just with execute ? Interesting.

[Kankipappa]

Smf crits for around 1,1 million in 507 gear.

Quite a big leap from TG with 501 ilvl here. Too bad I don't have two 1 handers to test if the +35% really is at least flat +30% to it.

So I'm seeing that they're nerfing execute due to SMF and that's too bad, it's just going to make TG's execute less useful.. Arms also takes a hit I'm sure, but +20% passive will still help on that a bit.

Tbh I would have preferred a fix on the SMF's execute scaling due to passives, but Blizzard tends to overlook where the real problem lies...

[sjsctt]

Not going into how meaningless that number is - so you are critting for 1,8 million just with execute ? Interesting.

I wait until relic (2/2) and final orders (2/2) pop, potion/reck/skull banner/profit

Love it. I will run logs this week to show you

Edit:this is SMf. With tg, I cannot touch theSe numbers. I have heroic crescent and Kilrak both upgraded 2/2. With h stars hatter and Shin'ka I only top at around 1 mil crits

[Darkfriend]

I wait until relic (2/2) and final orders (2/2) pop, potion/reck/skull banner/profit

Love it. I will run logs this week to show you

Edit:this is SMf. With tg, I cannot touch theSe numbers. I have heroic crescent and Kilrak both upgraded 2/2. With h stars hatter and Shin'ka I only top at around 1 mil crits

Those numbers are unbelievably useless when actually trying to do any form of real theorcrafting. For one, sampling bias. For another, sample size is way too small, incredibly small. For another, it isn't relevant. Simply because execute is nerfed by 25% doesn't mean you can take the percentage of damage done by execute (between 15-22% very roughly) and reduce that by 25%, and say this is the final number we'll come to. Numerous reasons why. For one, because execute might change it's function in 5.2, meaning execute is used less, resulting in less of a DPS loss (Example, perhaps WS procs are prioritized higher, or something else.)

[PPP]

I'm really bummed especially for PVP. We've been nerfed to the ground for 5.2 :/

[sjsctt]

Those numbers are unbelievably useless when actually trying to do any form of real theorcrafting. For one, sampling bias. For another, sample size is way too small, incredibly small. For another, it isn't relevant. Simply because execute is nerfed by 25% doesn't mean you can take the percentage of damage done by execute (between 15-22% very roughly) and reduce that by 25%, and say this is the final number we'll come to. Numerous reasons why. For one, because execute might change it's function in 5.2, meaning execute is used less, resulting in less of a DPS loss (Example, perhaps WS procs are prioritized higher, or something else.)

Wow...,didn't mean to get in an internet pissing contest.

My napkin math may be unreliable, but it gives a ballpark. Your sample size is much smaller than mine as you have 0 numbers other than restating the nerf. The only point I am trying to make is we shouldn't panic. Napkin math can give an approximation and in no way did i try to challenge you. You only seem to try to tear me down. I guess there isn't much better to do in wisconson than sit around and find faults in every post someone makes.

Tell me, are you worried that this nerf will earn you a spot on the bench? Please provide an adequate sampling size.

[Darkfriend]

Wow...,didn't mean to get in an internet pissing contest.

My napkin math may be unreliable, but it gives a ballpark. Your sample size is much smaller than mine as you have 0 numbers other than restating the nerf. The only point I am trying to make is we shouldn't panic. Napkin math can give an approximation and in no way did i try to challenge you. You only seem to try to tear me down. I guess there isn't much better to do in wisconson than sit around and find faults in every post someone makes.

Tell me, are you worried that this nerf will earn you a spot on the bench? Please provide an adequate sampling size.

I never attacked you, I simply said that your arguments were bad. If you wish to take that personally, that is your prerogative.

Your napkin math is non-existent. All you did was give circumstantial numbers.

For better math, the most DPS loss this could be is around 5%. Realistically, with WS buff and changes in rotation in execute phase, it's more like 3.5%-4%, which is about the same as the nerf to BT/CS/RB was. Granted, this is slightly more of a nerf to SMF too, for this reason (Which I posted before.)

k, let me explain why SMF is hit harder by an execute nerf. SMF and TG have fairly similar AP numbers, since the only real difference in gearing is weapons (generally.) Here is an example. A person who overgears me and is SMF (Jalopy) has 33.5k AP as SMF. I have 37.1k as TG. He has 9 item levels on me, so just say 33.5k v 40k AP. Execute is an AP scaling ability. Meaning that, if everything else were equal, my execute would hit harder. HOWEVER, he has a 35% damage boost due to SMF. So his executes will hit harder, and be a correspondingly greater amount of his DPS over a fight. As a result, a nerf to execute will hit him harder than it will me as TG.

This is also because a greater percentage of my damage comes from weapon damage based attacks, such as RB. Even with the 35% bonus damage, the difference between TG and SMF weapon damage is MUCH LARGER than the difference between the two's AP difference.

Essentially, this means any AP based attack nerf will hit both specs, but will hit SMF harder. Any weapon damage based attacks will hit both specs, but will hit TG harder. Execute and glyph of heroic leap nerf will both hit SMF harder than they will hit TG.

TL;DR, since there is a larger gap between the AP differences of SMF/TG and the weapon damage differences of SMF/TG, AP based attack nerfs hurt SMF more. If the difference were the same as the damage bonus that SMF got (If TG had 35% more AP) it would be closer (Although not the same) of a nerf to both SMF and TG.

As for numbers, I've been posting with numbers and math and the like on literally every 5.2 PVE patch in this thread, feel free to look around.

[Recke]

I don't understand this "run for the hills" mentality. It sucks execute is getting nerfed. Fact is, if you are getting sat because your numbers are low, you may have other problems. Fact is, currently...if the buffs/nerfs went live today, warriors would end up middle of the pack in current gear. If being benches for being mid pack, I have to question either you ability to obey mechanics or your group's inability to make berserk times(the only reason to bench someone for numbers.).

I'm looking at the case of walking into heroics the week they are made available. With the damage differences between rogues/dks/warriors and how two of the classes are capable of ignoring several mechanics of fights in the upcoming tier, in an attempt to go for anything in terms of progression, then why would you bring a warrior?

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 07:57 PM ----------

Allow me to present some numbers.

Execute for me...in 500 ilvl gear....CDs popped....1.8million damage.

Post Nerf = 1.8mil - (.25*1.8mil)= 1.35 million damage

Being that my DPs is top 3 going into sub 20, please enlighten me as to what ability (boss or player) hits this hard.

Like I said...I LOVE the CURRENT state of warriors. I just do not buy into the "sky is falling, here we go back to cataclysim" rational that many people seem to be falling into. If we survived ulduar needs and dragon soul, we can certainly do just fine with a 25% execute Nerf. I do hope they make a glyph to take 10% from BT/CD/rb and redistribute it to execute though.

If you could provde some logs, it'd be very helpful. Being top 3 as a warrior who isn't fully geared isn't easy (unless it's Garalon) so, I'm curious at what you are working with. I know in my raids, I have to fight to even make it top 5, since I'm 504 ilvl (just got my 2hander, so now 505), unless the boss is being bursted at such speed we get to execute phase rather quickly (spirit kings, as example).

[sjsctt]

I'm looking at the case of walking into heroics the week they are made available. With the damage differences between rogues/dks/warriors and how two of the classes are capable of ignoring several mechanics of fights in the upcoming tier, in an attempt to go for anything in terms of progression, then why would you bring a warrior?

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 07:57 PM ----------



If you could provde some logs, it'd be very helpful. Being top 3 as a warrior who isn't fully geared isn't easy (unless it's Garalon) so, I'm curious at what you are working with. I know in my raids, I have to fight to even make it top 5, since I'm 504 ilvl (just got my 2hander, so now 505), unless the boss is being bursted at such speed we get to execute phase rather quickly (spirit kings, as example).

You tried SMF? Anyways, I will post logs after this weeks raids. Not sure how it will help you since the only thing I did with numbers was ballpark them. I would quickly post them now but I do not usually run logs unless we are having DPs issues.

There are many reasons to bring a warrior. Our raid buffs are legit between our banners, shouts and sunders. Our burst is solid, and our mobility extremely high. Then again, I do feel for people who are in groups who bring the class and not the player.

[Kankipappa]

Okay so, I tried the PTR patch today on my character. Execute tooltip now shows around 96k with flask+battleshout. Highest execute on 80 lvl dummy at Argent tournament with all aligned was 550k (what I couldn't reproduce. second highest was 522k on later attempts). So it feels rather weak now, average crit howering around 300k. With 80lvl dummy I could barely maintain 110k dps even when trying to prio execute just for the colossus.

On live the on the same target the top crit was 801K, and my "sustained execute damage" stayed around 135k dps.

Where is the compensation?

[Kalmah]

Dummy dps? Really?

[Sithix]

Fury really needs a small buff. Execute was the only thing that kept us afloat. Now with an execute nerf we're probably gonna go even further into the barrel.

---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 11:52 AM ----------

Highest execute on 80 lvl dummy at Argent tournament with all aligned was 550k (what I couldn't reproduce. second highest was 522k on later attempts).

You can't execute on dummys......

[Taik]

Nothing else to say really

[Delath]

You can't execute on dummys......

You can execute some dummies at Argent tournament.

[slondon]

You can execute the dummies at the argent tournament.

EDIT: dammit beat me to it.

[broggernaut]

Via Blue:

- Partially reverted the -25% nerf to Execute. It's now -15%. (As mentioned previously, we adjust the meta-gem.)

I may have missed it in the notes, but I didn't see how much the Meta was affected.

[Jalopy]

15% to go.