Why do we have to wait over a month for the whole LFR to unlock?

[Pann]

What do you mean, "nothing"? There's tons of other stuff in this patch.
Gating is the exact word you said. Which is what Blizzard is doing. Perhaps you misunderstand the concept.

My post was in reply to you saying that if they were manipulating the sub numbers now they must have done in the past which I replied that gating is used to make content last longer and thus in a way manipulate sub numbers it would appear that we are having two different conversations.

They were gated for even longer during 5.0
What gave them the idea that it would be any different?

Gating is not the problem I don't think anyone expected to queuing for LFR tomorrow and clearing the whole raid but, as you can see from this thread, they certainly expected something. I would have no issue with a 3 boss wing being released tomorrow and another the next week, etc to be honest I would not be overly bothered if they had announced their intentions from the start but the day before the patch is poor form on Blizzards part.

[SamR]

Content is gated to make it last longer therefore making players subscribe for longer so yes in a way it was done to manipulate the sub numbers. This is the first time Blizzard has decided to withhold content from a large proportion of the player base.

You mean the first time since the last raid tier?

[Pann]

32% of the player base participates in normal/heroic mode raiding. That's nearly 1/3 of the player base who just received tons of fresh content today. The other 2/3 still has an abundance of content but must wait up to 6 weeks to play with all of the LFR content. It also was like this on MOP release. LFR was not available until after heroic or longer in some cases.

You quickly forget when having fun.

Where do you get these figures from? In tier 14, according to wowprogress.com, 38461 10 man and 3274 25 man guilds killed the first boss in MSV giving us, assuming that it is all different individuals, a total of just 466000 players. By the end of MSV this had dropped to 25031 10 mans and 1833 25 mans, over 170k players had dropped out of raiding by the end of the first part of the tier. Heroic raiding has an even lower participation with just 152k people killing the first boss on heroic.

So unless sub figures have fallen through the floor without anyone noticing your figure of 32% is for want of a better word, nonsense.

[Tharkkun]

Where do you get these figures from? In tier 14, according to wowprogress.com, 38461 10 man and 3274 25 man guilds killed the first boss in MSV giving us, assuming that it is all different individuals, a total of just 466000 players. By the end of MSV this had dropped to 25031 10 mans and 1833 25 mans, over 170k players had dropped out of raiding by the end of the first part of the tier. Heroic raiding has an even lower participation with just 152k people killing the first boss on heroic.

So unless sub figures have fallen through the floor without anyone noticing your figure of 32% is for want of a better word, nonsense.

LOL I pulled the wrong number. Fixing. It's 4.8% which is not in any way a majority of players.

[Deleted]

Blizzard has been gating raids since BC. Sunwell had a 3 week gap between each wing. Icecrown had a month after the first, and two weeks for each subsequent wing.

Remember those expansions, when subs were rising and forum dwellers today think everything was soooo much better? Still gated. Guess that was all done to manipulate the sub numbers too, eh?

If you're going to persist with the conspiracy theories, you could at least put a minimum amount of thought into them.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 10:19 PM ----------


Care to clarify for us at which point in WoW the content wasn't gated? So much revisionist history...

P.S. Onyxia Scale Cloaks. 'Nuff said.

I dont object to gating as such, I object to this particular form.

Surely its backwards, you require people to complete lfr then normal then hc. not hold back LFR.

LFR is the only raid for the majority of people, so Bliz holding it back is essentially saying their subs are worth less than "raiders".

I think normal and LFR should open at the same time. I can honestly see no reason to hold back LFR other than stretching out subs.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 11:13 PM ----------

Oh sorry. I forgot that you make all the rules of the interwebz. I was about ready to slit my wrist but I decided to go play Wow because it's fun. Please continue being miserable on a forum.[COLOR="red"]

awww, did I cauwse you to get all upset? awwww didums.

its a discussion forum, everything posted is opinion only, I make no claims to be right or to speak for anyone but myself, but I'm not posting disclaimers on every post because some reactionary person take insult from it.

gets some perspective and learn to recoignise that people can have opinions differnt to your own and it not be apersonal insult to you.

[Fagatronics]

Where do you get these figures from? In tier 14, according to wowprogress.com, 38461 10 man and 3274 25 man guilds killed the first boss in MSV giving us, assuming that it is all different individuals, a total of just 466000 players. By the end of MSV this had dropped to 25031 10 mans and 1833 25 mans, over 170k players had dropped out of raiding by the end of the first part of the tier. Heroic raiding has an even lower participation with just 152k people killing the first boss on heroic.

So unless sub figures have fallen through the floor without anyone noticing your figure of 32% is for want of a better word, nonsense.

Can we all just agree that none of us have the sub/raider numbers? And please stop trying to guess the numbers with little to no real information, only Blizzard knows the real numbers. This assumption on top of guess work needs to stop being trotted as facts or "potential, maybe facts."

But I guess where's the fun in that...

[Dukenukem]

Where do you get these figures from? In tier 14, according to wowprogress.com, 38461 10 man and 3274 25 man guilds killed the first boss in MSV giving us, assuming that it is all different individuals, a total of just 466000 players. By the end of MSV this had dropped to 25031 10 mans and 1833 25 mans, over 170k players had dropped out of raiding by the end of the first part of the tier. Heroic raiding has an even lower participation with just 152k people killing the first boss on heroic.

So unless sub figures have fallen through the floor without anyone noticing your figure of 32% is for want of a better word, nonsense.

He is thinking Raiding playerbase (any guild listed on WoWProgress that kill at least one boss is listed) so the 32% is from that 466000 players which give about that 152000 you mentioned

[spectrefax]

LFR is the only raid for the majority of people, so Bliz holding it back is essentially saying their subs are worth less than "raiders".

By not opening even 1 LFR wing upon release of 5.2 (even if the rest are gated a month at a time) that's exactly what they are saying. "You LFR people need to wait until our valued customers get their content done." Sad but true.

[SamR]

By not opening even 1 LFR wing upon release of 5.2 (even if the rest are gated a month at a time) that's exactly what they are saying. "You LFR people need to wait until our valued customers get their content done." Sad but true.

LFR MV opened one week after normal MV in 5.0. It's not like this is a new thing or 5.0 was that long ago...

[Wondercrab]

I like the staggered release of LFR, but I agree the schedule for 5.2 does seem a little excessive. Ideally I'd like to see one new wing consistently every week.

[SamR]

LFR is the only raid for the majority of people, so Bliz holding it back is essentially saying their subs are worth less than "raiders".

I think normal and LFR should open at the same time. I can honestly see no reason to hold back LFR other than stretching out subs.

Did you make complaint posts when 5.0 LFR launched, too? Or is this a new point of contention you've latched onto for this particular patch?

[Pann]

LFR MV opened one week after normal MV in 5.0. It's not like this is a new thing or 5.0 was that long ago...

I must admit I had forgotten about that and with levelling I do not think it was an issue at the time but I do not think it is unreasonable that after this tier that has seen raiding fall to an new low that LFR players are treated as equals in terms of when they receive content.

[BrerBear]

LFR is the only raid for the majority of people, so Bliz holding it back is essentially saying their subs are worth less than "raiders".

I think normal and LFR should open at the same time. I can honestly see no reason to hold back LFR other than stretching out subs..

It's because LFR is easy. So damn easy that it's a rarity to NOT complete it. It's like upside-down raiding.

Normal and Heroic are gated by their difficulty. Most people will not be clearing them in the first few weeks. If they did, it would be widely acknowledged that the tier was vastly undertuned. Tiers are expected to last for a few months.

In the absence of difficulty, LFR is gated by time. It should last a few months, too. Which is exactly what this system does.

[Fagatronics]

In the absence of difficulty, LFR is gated by time. It should last a few months, too. Which is exactly what this system does.

^ this

Though I have some cynical sub lengthening hypotheses as well. Your quote is spot on.

[Tharkkun]

awww, did I cauwse you to get all upset? awwww didums.

its a discussion forum, everything posted is opinion only, I make no claims to be right or to speak for anyone but myself, but I'm not posting disclaimers on every post because some reactionary person take insult from it.

gets some perspective and learn to recoignise that people can have opinions differnt to your own and it not be apersonal insult to you.

um no, its just Bliz being Bliz and fucking over the customer in order to make more money, they've been doing it for years. Which is a shame as they used to be a really great company making great games and treating players well.

Sorry I thought that statement was being constructive in a discussion forum. This is exactly what I would say to a member of Blizzard if I were face to face. You're the one freaking out. I'm just calling you out on being irrational over the LFR gating when this is nothing new to the game.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 06:15 PM ----------

He is thinking Raiding playerbase (any guild listed on WoWProgress that kill at least one boss is listed) so the 32% is from that 466000 players which give about that 152000 you mentioned

Nah, 32% is the number of raiders that have killed Sha who have also killed the Stone Guard in Tier 14. 4.8% of the player base have killed the first boss which doesn't account for LFR or players who have joined new guilds. We have no data for that. Raiders in general are the minority.

[Leonard McCoy]

The "Minority" of players do not get it "all" on the first day. They spend weeks, some even spends months trying to get through Normal modes. If you really do not understand that these people come to work hard at something and they might feel like their effort was for nothing when JobBobRogue and TerryPaladinface clear the raid in 30 minutes on day one, then you have a major problem and are pretty much the reason we get crap like yearly numbered titles in franchises and the rest of that real trash.

As for your being more likely to stick around after clearing a raid and having it on farm? Please don't assume that, because this is the internet, that any percentage of us are that stupid. Someone who is whining about only wanting to sub for a month at a time is whining because they want to get in, clear the content and unsub.

That isn't wrong, it's not even bad. That is why LFR exists. Don't belittle the game for the MANY people who DO 10 man content and 25 man content simply because you are lazy. And don't pull some magic numbers out of your butt either. LFR is popular, Normal Mode raiding is not, by any stretch of the imagination, an insignificant portion of the games population. Both of these statements are fact. Your statement that "Blizzard won't give me what I want, which I demand because I play the more popular version of the game" is opinion. It's your opinion and you are welcome to it, but stop preaching it at us.

Furthermore, you had almost a months notice to the fact that LFR would be delayed. It was delayed in the first tier of this expansion as well. To me, this sort of indicates that your just complaining to complain, there is really no excuse for why you would assume that the fact that it would be delayed didn't apply to you somehow.

Wait what? Why does JimBoBRogue and TerryPaladinface clearing content on LFR FOR SUB PAR GEAR WITH SUB PAR CHALLENGE invalidate the effort of other players? That argument is ludicrous and insane. It's basically saying that the majority of people raiding normals and heroics are crazy enough to actually give a shit what everybody else is doing around them. Who cares? Are you that obsessive compulsive with this game that Terrypaladinface rolling LFR content fir crappy epics invalidates your effort in this game? Do you get that much out of raiding these bosses? Is your entire self worth tied up in this game? So much so that someone running content ahead of you upsets you? You must have a REAL low opinion of these Lfr raiders then. Like I cannot describe the amount of psychosis that would entail. Will you now take your ball home if LFR gets out a week earlier for lfr people? Why are YOU so consumed with what I can and can't do in the first week? I don't give a shit if you can finish your normals in the first week or in the 10th fucking week. I just want something fun to raid on patch day.

I don't have a major problem, quite the oppposite. The players who are constantly looking at whats on someone elses plate do. I'm just asking that the majority of people who raid in this game get something out of a new patch in the first week. I don't care about normals or heroics. I mean I could just as easily say real progression guys feel awful bad when scrub guild clears normal invalidating their work on heroic but we both know that most heroic guilds don't give a fuck what else is happening. Paragon doesn't give a shit that you TerryPaladinface cleared LFR and I'm not sure why you do.

Belittling the game? You have to be kidding me with this. This is the most insane behavior I can think of. I don't actually think that the majority of people raiding normal CARE but again a hardcore vocal minority probably do in fact care and they are exactly what is wrong with this game and they are exactly being catered to in this again.

I honestly didn't know that it would be delayed for the life of me, I will not make that mistake again. I knew some delay would happen just as it did at lunach but throne is one raid and they've stretched it out to 6 weeks. ONE RAID.

I can't believe I read this tripe. It boggles my mind that apparent "grown ups" would behave in the manor of children and think this not only healthy but perfectly rational and reasonable behavior. I don't think it's accurate because frankly I don't think the majority of normal raiders are insane like that. If it's true than the game has real problems and I feel bad for the developers. In the end if this is the case then the people running normals are the ones who "want it all" and don't want anyone else to have their toys for as long as possible. If Blizzard gives people running lfr just a little bit of a taste in the first week well then those normal people take their balls home with them and won't play. I honest can't believe that the majority of these people running normals are children. That is exactly the behavior you are suggesting though. I swear if your kids behaved like this.. Christ I know children better behaved than that.

[Florena]

Is it really the end of the world that you have to wait six weeks instead of four to get it all? It's meant to mimic normal progression, two more weeks to see the end of Lei Shen isn't going to kill you.

[Leonard McCoy]

Really it's just another part of their slow everything down to an unenjoyable crawl plan as part of their goal to break the bulk of players into accepting whatever little dollops of progression they dole out so they can string more and more people along on less content.

That's the only reason I can think of it. It's horse shit dude, I'm so tired of this go slow crap. YOu hear it from the developers, you hear it from the fucking pandas themselves. When will they get past this idea? Like at one point will it be okay to get rewarded again for my play time as limited as it might be some days?

---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 12:29 AM ----------

Is it really the end of the world that you have to wait six weeks instead of four to get it all? It's meant to mimic normal progression, two more weeks to see the end of Lei Shen isn't going to kill you.

Would it really be the end of the world if I got the lfr raid in the first week? Or if I got ONE boss on patch day? or if it took 4 weeks overall? It's not going to kill you if I can see one boss on patch day.

[SamR]

Would it really be the end of the world if I got the lfr raid in the first week? Or if I got ONE boss on patch day? or if it took 4 weeks overall? It's not going to kill you if I can see one boss on patch day.

I don't think Florena is in charge of the LFR release schedule.

Blizzard doesn't want you to enter LFR until a week after the patch. Doesn't make a huge amount of difference to me and I do LFR exclusively. But you seem to be taking it pretty hard.

[Jtbrig7390]

-snip-

I agree with that you said 100%.

But personally your words fall on def ears on these forums.

I would have been ok with the first wing open today fallowed by each week opening another wing. people can come up with anything they wish but in the end this is to keep subs as high as they can nothing more and nothing less.

The major difference in Normal/Heroic Mode progression is that its gated by the ability of you and your group. You can make your gate shorter by playing better/harder.

For LFR this is gated due to the choice of blizzard and the small few who bitch about LFR being required to do for normal mode raiding when there is even a high chance you out gear it due to heroic loot and that it kills there enjoyment of a boss kill.

Here is a question.

How dose killing a boss on a easy'er mode kill your enjoyment now when back in WOTLK and Cata before LFR it didn't kill your enjoyment of killing a heroic mode boss after you done farmed normal mode.

Because that is what this is your kill it on LFR then go to Normal then Heroic and you get happy you killed the boss on a harder setting.

LFR dose not effect your enjoyment in anyway if it did you would have been asking for normal mode raids to be removed at the start of WOTLK and make everything as hard as heroic mode.