Rogues are absurd

[Xeikai]

I sit in dueling circles alot and i know these people and they happen to be very skilled at dueling. So i'm confident that my competition knows what they're doing. Of course everything is subjective. I just find that nimble brew lets me go stright on the offensive unless they wanna pop a vanish right away and of course they'll be sitting stealth for 25+ secs waiting for stun dr to go away, I think this puts me in favor fo the fight cause now i can revert back to my 5.1 style of play, waiting for the right moment to trinket. I also like to keep 3 healing orbs out before the duel starts, Helps to just run over them to recover from their burst.

I agree that you dont HAVE to nimble the opener, I've just found that with my damage, i can frontload so much preasure onto them that they'll start blowing more CD's to survive that DR stun period. Or they just vanish and reset the right to 5.1 mentality. But there are ways to deal with rogues. I should rephrase what i said. I havent lost a duel where i didnt screw something up, Of couirse i'm prone to error at times and i trinket things i shoudlnt and lose, we learn from it. But I havent lost much to rogues since 5.2 hit. Nimble brew is an amazing equalizer in that fight

[Verain]

Rogues were not weak in last season, only bad rogues were weak.

You are either biased, bad at math, or both.

Rogues were wretched last season. Top rogues all specced arms on their shiny warriors. Warriors were more represented above 2200 than any class ever has been. Rogues were less represented above 2200 than any class ever has been. It was objectively the least balanced season in the history of WoW.

Rogues were terrible, simply awful. Your statement has no basis in fact, and smells of butthurt player who only had rank because he was on the least balanced class ever, in any season, in the whole game of WoW.

[kleinlax21]

Hpally here. inb4 1v1: I used to giggle (5.0-5.1) when I saw a rogue on me or dueled one; rarely did i ever stress their presence like I would a top damage dealer such as a mage, dk, lock, or a warrior. Rogues indeed were terrible, arguably the most underpowered melee spec around. I could fairly easily keep myself topped off with Holy Shock, Holy Prism, Word of Glory, and casted heals when their cooldowns were up. In a group setting, I don't remember any specific incidence of a rogue being responsible for the damage that caused my death, as their control was nearly the same in 5.1 as it is now. RMP, for instance, really suffered from 4.3 into 5.0 not only because priests ended up relatively underpowered, but IMO mostly because Rogue damage was pitiful when compared to really any other competitive melee spec. All of this should be fairly common knowledge and undebatable; that rogues were markedly UP in S12.

Now, however, I need to be on my toes when a rogue engages me. I've dueled a wide range of rogues ranging from my abysmal friend, to very skilled rogues that had no problems throughputting damage while interweaving cc's effectively. The main difference in a 5.1 rogue and a 5.2 rogue is their damage; this should not be a point of contention even when disregarding your opinion on the state of rogues. I am convinced Rogues are not overpowered in the CC and mobility department, as those areas have not really changed since 5.1 very drastically. However, I think we are seeing Rogue damage back at 4.3 levels when comparing two full PvP only geared Rogues in full Malev at 90 and full Cata at 85.

Of course, this entire discussion is discussing Rogues with, at best, T2 Double upgraded weapons and 491 Malev gear. However, I think it is a safe assumption to make that most rogues in the competitive scene do not have T2, but rather T1 with 2 upgrades. What I am getting at is the assertion that we really do not know how well Rogues will fair in the PvP scene when everyone is geared in full T2 Tyrannical gear. It is quite probable that healer output will scale more effectively than Rogue damage, decreasing Rogues marginal competitiveness from current gear levels. The opposite is equally possible as well.

Really, what I am saying is that, while it can be argued that T1 Malev Rogues are overpowered against fellow T1 Malev opponents, nobody outside of those who PvP'ed extensively on the PTR have any experience dealing wtih T2 Tyrannical Rogues while wearing full T2 Tyrannical themselves.

I think it is absolutely too early to make as broad of a judgement call regarding the overall state of Rogues in the PvP metagame this early into a season, when everyone has (realistically) at most one or two pieces of T1 Tyrannical gear. I think Rogue damage is potentially too high now, and as such this has a decent probability of holding true well into the season, but really we have no fucking clue what Rogues will be like when everyone is geared.

[Durenek]

This happens every time large-scale buffs or nerfs get rolled out on certain classes. In this case from what I've seen, Rogues in the hands of mediocre players are able to move comfortably into the middle of the pack again, both in PVP and PVE, while rogues played by exceptional players are causing the kind of butt-hurt seen here on the internet. It's possible that rogues might need some minor tweaks to a few of their abilities, or at least the cooldowns of those abilities, but they were in a terrible place last patch, both in terms of potential output and also representation. You know it was bad when you couldn't find a rogue to open lock-boxes, and had to rely on blacksmiths instead.

Just my 2cents anyway.

[Googolplex]

I actually got raped in 3 fucking seconds before the stun even wore off.

Since when is Cheap Shot 3 seconds ? Please, it you want people to take your whining threads seriously, stop lying.

Oh, and btw, you gotta trinket the opener...

[Deleted]

Forget about complaining about the damage because it is fine and in line with mages, locks and hunters at least. The main reason for Rogues being a bit over the top is Subterfuge. This talent is confusing people who do not play rogues right now, But like everything else they will get used to it and be able to recognise it and act accordingly. Deadly Throw silence is a little bit over the top, Maybe they should make it only silence with 5 combo points again to balance us out a bit.

[Foomy]

Rogues always have been and always will be the lamest class ever.
The last patches were like taking a vacation, to relax and recover a bit from the utter lameness that one suffered from rogues ever since the beginning of WoW. Although warrors were OP as heck, that class doesn't have that full load of lameness. So all in all, last season was a good season.

[Saegno]

So you didn't trinket the cheapshot and are complaining about being bursted down.

You are the kind of person I love to catch in BG's on my rogue.

[Lulbalance]

So you didn't trinket the cheapshot and are complaining about being bursted down.

You are the kind of person I love to catch in BG's on my rogue.

alot of people beat you trinking cheap shot now?

this is mop wow.. and the people who play it. :/

[Deleted]

I mean seriously i would rather get stomped by a freaking prenerf BM hunter than fighting a rogue. I especially dislike undead male rogues, and they should stay crap because in that way i can actually ENJOY playing this game.

I cant play this game while rogues are over the top, i seriously cant do. Seeing undead male rogues chainccing you, jumping around and strafing behind you to act skilled just jarates me off. I dont care if they win or not, just seeing them appear again in mass is enough for me to hate this game.

But i have hopes, as Blizzard is known to either make specs underpowered or overpowered, i cross my finger to see Blizzard totally ruin the rogue class in pvp again in a hotfix.

[Coraulten]

So you didn't trinket the cheapshot and are complaining about being bursted down.

You are the kind of person I love to catch in BG's on my rogue.

Yeah, trinket that cheapshot only to be blinded and have the fight reset.

[odiasuda]

I mean seriously i would rather get stomped by a freaking prenerf BM hunter than fighting a rogue. I especially dislike undead male rogues, and they should stay crap because in that way i can actually ENJOY playing this game.

I cant play this game while rogues are over the top, i seriously cant do. Seeing undead male rogues chainccing you, jumping around and strafing behind you to act skilled just jarates me off. I dont care if they win or not, just seeing them appear again in mass is enough for me to hate this game.

But i have hopes, as Blizzard is known to either make specs underpowered or overpowered, i cross my finger to see Blizzard totally ruin the rogue class in pvp again in a hotfix.

/narrows eyes Not sure if sarcasm, or if this is how the typical wow pvper thinks.

[Theodoxus]

It's the primary reason I don't pvp unless forced to (thanks Wrathion). PvP is so twitch and overtuned that it's practically a different game. I suppose that's the appeal - but I'd rather fights offer a chance of survival and not waiting there completely incapacitated until my health is zero.

Trinkets are great, but they're not available 100% of the time. And being dependent on them doesn't make you a better player.

Meh.

[willtron]

I haven't lost to a rogue yet, and i've dueled some seriously geared rogues, If your fighting a rogue, just outright nimble brew their opener and paralyze them, It effectively takes away all their frontload damage and forces them to go evasive . Fists of fury them with trinket up and tiger out, and put lots of pressure on them. Make them start blowing cd's to survive, If they play right they will get another opener, you need to make sure you've put enough pressure out onto them and not panic and use your trinket BEFORE they use their cd's, many rogues will try to bait you with a blind, If you trinket that blind, it's vanish, pop cd's you lose. Always wait for them to burn their cd's, or wait till you're sure you can finish them and you put their stuns on DR by trinketing.

That's incredibly situational and most of the time, it doesn't play out like that. Seriously geared =/= skill.

[ripponesan]

Actually warriors could rop you in 5.0 in WAY less than 3 seconds. just for the record.

[Deleted]

killing spree

lol

[slime]

The reflections and sparkling in all of the tears in this thread make me want to re-sub wow and get back to some pvping. But like most said this is short-lived and blizz will once again nerf the rogue to nothing more than a splinter in most classes sides.

[pkm]

The reflections and sparkling in all of the tears in this thread make me want to re-sub wow and get back to some pvping. But like most said this is short-lived and blizz will once again nerf the rogue to nothing more than a splinter in most classes sides.

I dunno, i got a feeling that rogues are going to stay like this. Just seems like it to me...

[Deleted]

Get some damage log
go to battleground
check rogue damage

they deal with ambush when critting MAX 60k, average is 40k for a crit, crit is ~30% , noncrit is lousy 20k damage wich is pathetic
this means you will never see a shadowdance take more than half your health even if stars align

people are exaggerating way to much about rogues

[Flaks]

100k Eviscerates are not OK.

100k anythings are not OK. This is an issue with BURST not with any specific class.

The problems with rogues are numerous, but I wouldn't specify burst because of how universal that issue is.

---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 03:16 PM ----------

Since when is Cheap Shot 3 seconds ? Please, it you want people to take your whining threads seriously, stop lying.

Oh, and btw, you gotta trinket the opener...

Loljk reset 4 different times.

And he didn't say the cheap shot was 3 seconds. He said he died before the stun ended. And I'm not even sure if he's talking only about the cheap shot. He might have gotten CHS- KS - Paralytic and before the paralytic was done he was dead. Which is something that happens in 99% of cases even when the rogue hasn't popped shadow blades.