Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Valeron]

Is Vashjir world of warcraft? I think that is when I stopped playing.

I remember I liked that area.

[Fencers]

Doozerjun, you are a long time poster. One of the few I recognize by name on the forums. Because really, I take no notice of names whatsoever usually.

Understand I say this with equal parts sass and good humor.

However, this.

This is the worst thing I read on the forums all day.

They need to make a solely underwater zone.

And there is a lot of bad on these forums. /FYI/.

[Valeron]

Haha!

Yeah, I know my opinion would be unpopular for this particular topic.

I'll add this in though as it may show people why I like underwater stuff. I have over 500 logged scuba dives (and many more undocumented). I love it.

[Lane]

Yeah, Vashj'ir was one of the two level 80 'starter' zones for WoW: Cataclysm. I didn't dislike the zone, but it's another "been there, done that" feeling for me. GW2 would have to design something that didn't remind me of it at all and considering how much of GW2 strongly reminds me of WoW already I just don't see that happening.

[Valeron]

hmm, never got that wow impression at all from gw2

[rhandric]

I'd argue that any WoW impressions are solely because people are using it as a point of comparison...which is why I always find it funny when "love/hate" threads can be summed to be: love: it's not like wow in X, Y, Z. Hate: It's not like WoW in Q, R, S.

[Lane]

Previous times I've mentioned it I'm told it's simply because both games are "standard fantasy fare". Well, whatever it is (as an example) I cannot look at GW2 bandits and not see Defias. They look practically identical to me. I've had that feeling with a lot of things in GW2. There hasn't been much that's felt fresh or new to me and thus I imagine any underwater zone would hold the same feeling.

[rhandric]

But Lane, that's like saying, "It has dragons, it's just like WoW!"

[Valeron]

Do you get the same feeling when reading fantasy books? That they all seem the same?

does Lord of the Rings seem the same as A Song of Ice and Fire?

[Fencers]

The last game to pull off an underwater zone okay-ish was Super Mario World. Okay-ish.

Look, you are not Miyamoto. Stop trying, game makers.

Don't even make me bring up Jaws on NES. Because I will.

[rhandric]

Underwater zones can be decent, if done properly, but they're hard to do. And since an underwater zone would most likely be most fitting when we go to fight Bubbles, I'd rather that fight be something more along the lines of us on a ship sailing (south, to Cantha, until intercepted by Bubbles? idk) and then swallowed by Bubbles, and defeating him from the inside out...though logistically that might prove problematic

[Lane]

Well, come on, you can have bandits and not have them look exactly like Defias and coincidentally be one of the main points of conflict in the human zones. :P

It's not all WoW though, it's Rift too. As far as I'm concerned Zhaitan = Arthas + Regulos. I know there's an argument for which came first, but the story arcs for GW2's dragons and Rift's dragons are so similar one may as well just be a retelling of the other. It's not just that the game "has X" it's that it has X and they're presented in almost the exact same manner. (If MMOs were books I'd wonder why some of the authors weren't suing each other.)

[Valeron]

Well I have no clue on Rift's lore so I can't comment on that.

Zhaitan and Arthas? I can't think of anything more dissimilar. Maybe if you said the big bad dragon of wow, deathwing I think the name is, then I could perhaps see that.

[Fencers]

How are Rift's dragons even close to GW2?

In GW2 the dragons are like cylindrical primal forces of nature. In Rift they are entities from another reality that slipped through a tear between worlds. Not to mention the numerous minor details such as Ascended, souls, the soul stream, the veil, the ward, time travel and the complacency of Telerans in their own apocalypse.

That's like not similar at all.

[rhandric]

There's a saying that there are no new stories, just retellings of old ones (blah blah blah, lawsuit would be dismissed, and +1 to anyone who knows the show). Not knowing pretty much anything about Rift (I played the trial through, I dunno, lvl 15 or something?), I don't know how the story arc you reference goes...but, oft times it's the differences that make the story "unique", even though people tend to only see the similarities when comparing things.

---------- Post added 2013-03-27 at 03:14 PM ----------

Well I have no clue on Rift's lore so I can't comment on that.

Zhaitan and Arthas? I can't think of anything more dissimilar. Maybe if you said the big bad dragon of wow, deathwing I think the name is, then I could perhaps see that.

Only thing I can think of that's similar between Zhaitan and Arthas is that they both control hordes of undead.

[Lane]

In Rift they are entities from another reality that slipped through a tear between worlds.

I actually had to double check I was remembering Rift's lore correctly because your version did not sound familiar at all. O_o

The Blood Storm move from world to world and consume/destroy it. This is not dissimilar to GW2's dragons who are repeatedly stated to be "destruction" and not satisfied until all life on Tyria is consumed.

The dragons also share an elemental background, "primal forces of nature" vs. "six essential forces" is not all that different either. Regulos/Zhaitan = death, Maelforge/Primordus = fire, etc. They all have their cultists/minions who usually share in whatever element they represent.

There's a saying that there are no new stories, just retellings of old ones

Which is true to some extent.

Only thing I can think of that's similar between Zhaitan and Arthas is that they both control hordes of undead.

Well, that was enough for me. I'm not talking about taking in a character's entire backstory as a whole. Obviously I know the origins of Zhaitan and Arthas are nothing alike. However, their function and representation are extremely similar. Definitely more than enough for me to get that "been there, done that" feeling.

Much of GW2 seems almost carbon-copied (even if only superficially) from other MMO experiences I've already had just within the past 5 years or so, not even that long a period of time to go from one striking similarity to another. Not all of GW2 is like that for me, it's probably why I tend to favor certain races/zones than others because they feel the most fresh and new. I mean, if you don't have that issue then that's great. However, it doesn't change that quite a bit of it feels "old hat" to me, personally.

[rhandric]

So...there are dragons, there are antagonists who control vast hordes of undead, so of course it's a carbon copy!

Again...you're seeing the similarities and focusing on those, rather than seeing the entirety and comparing. I mean really, Zhaitain and Arthas are carbon copies because they both command legions of undead? Seriously?

Of course there are going to be similar themes, some (most?) of which are trope-worthy. You're in a fantasy world, there are going to be similarities. But when you get stuck on "two leaders of hordes of undead == carbon copy!" (despite one being human and one being a dragon, nevermind the rest of the differences), ultimately you're seeing what you expect to see.

I mean, you even admit that a) you dismiss their backstories and b) know said backstories are different! And yet, you claim carbon copy

[Valeron]

Well to each their own perception I guess. I find the guild wars world pretty distinctive in the fantasy genre. But then I may be a bit biased due to playing GW1 since it released as well.

[rhandric]

Perhaps that's the issue, Doozer...by playing GW1 since release, and knowing the history of the world (including the history of the appearance of these dragons), the differences are obvious. Since I can't ignore everything I know and focus solely on what's presented in-game in GW2, and without having knowledge of certain points of comparison, it's harder to get a different perspective

[zito]

I want a full underwater zone :/

I think the underwater combat is ok, better then other games i've played it needs tweaking imo. Like mesmer bleeds underwater need to change, they made it OP (with my build I can get a 25 stack of bleed by myself underwater).