if our justice system was perfected would you support capital punishment?

[Wells]

Well, I'd say there's evidence suggesting that death penalty deters crime,

Can you provide it?

[Deleted]

Can you provide it?

At the very least, they are unlikely to be repeat offenders....

[Deadvolcanoes]

Can you provide it?

Of course he can't prove it, because almost all the evidence shows otherwise.

States with the death penalty have a higher murder rate than states without the death penalty.

[Solzan Nemesis]

I guess I'll help him out: http://www.wired.com/politics/law/ma...urrentPage=all

But as has been noted, these aren't terrorists or high profile criminals.

Ty. Also that maybe be. But I consider them just a dangerous.

[Kasierith]

Of course he can't prove it, because almost all the evidence shows otherwise.

States with the death penalty have a higher murder rate than states without the death penalty.

And there's no chance that you are confusing correlation with causation?

[Tradewind]

And there's no chance that you are confusing correlation with causation?

How does that make sense? It's a chart showing states with the death penalty have a higher murder rate...there's really no objectivity involved.

[Tinykong]

How does that make sense? It's a chart showing states with the death penalty have a higher murder rate...there's really no objectivity involved.

Could it be, that the death penalty is the only factor in murder rates......

[Tradewind]

Could it be, that the death penalty is the only factor in murder rates......

But it's not an argument as to what is causing the murders, only that if it was any kind of deterrent you'd expect there to be a noticeable reduction versus states without the death penalty. Can also compare it to the states themselves. States without the death penalty include, NY, Michigan, New Jersey, Illinois...yet even with those (so called criminal havens...) included still have a lower overall murder rate than States with the death penalty. I'd say that's telling.

[Linkedblade]

In the US there is only one constitutional reason for someone to be killed and that is Treason. Other than that, capital punishment is "cruel and unusual" as all humans have the right to live, that is unless they commit treason.

[Uvwaex]

No this is a common misconception, you cannot get the death penalty for rape no matter how horrific your crimes. ONLY murder.

Not really the point, I said rape and murder since it seemed to me a lot of posters were throwing them in together as death penalty punishable crimes.

[Tyrianth]

But it's not an argument as to what is causing the murders, only that if it was any kind of deterrent you'd expect there to be a noticeable reduction versus states without the death penalty. Can also compare it to the states themselves. States without the death penalty include, NY, Michigan, New Jersey, Illinois...yet even with those (so called criminal havens...) included still have a lower overall murder rate than States with the death penalty. I'd say that's telling.

That chart doesn't disprove that Capital Punishment is a deterrent. In order to prove that you would have to compare a single State with and without capital punishment.

[Grizzly Willy]

How does that make sense? It's a chart showing states with the death penalty have a higher murder rate...there's really no objectivity involved.

Flip the statement around: states have the death penalty as a result of higher murder rates.

[Fahrenheit]

If we had a 100% fool proof way of knowing that a person A) did the crime and B) was of sound mind when they did it. Then sure. It'd save us all alot of money.

[Tradewind]

Flip the statement around: states have the death penalty as a result of higher murder rates.

Sure, which would be an absurdity.

[Deadvolcanoes]

That chart doesn't disprove that Capital Punishment is a deterrent. In order to prove that you would have to compare a single State with and without capital punishment.

You really can't prove, in a scientific sense, whether or not the death penalty is a deterence. You can only gather evidence to support the claim.

Kind of like how you can't prove the big bang theory to be true. But if it were true, you'd expect to observe redshift. And if the death penalty was a deterence, you'd expect murder rates to be lower in states where its implemented.

I hope I didn't slaughter that analogy.

[Lethey Alexandros]

Reinstitute the gallows and suddenly houseing for life is greater than the exacution becuse the gallows can be used over and over and over with relatively 0 upkeep/preperation/cleaning.

From the price stand point, people who argue exacution is more expencive than houseing them, initialy yes but as you house more and more criminals, the cost adds up, then you have to build new facilities which can be several million, staff and pay more employees to manage the facility. In the long run, houseing prisoners is more costly.

The one gotch though to exactuion would have to be makeing sure they are 100% guilty, that everything adds up and fits. Establish that then expadite the sentence. This is why I feel people als belive that the death sentence is not a deturance to murders, becuse it takes a long time for the sentence to be carried out. If from the time you where sentenced to death, they walked you out and exacuted you the following day, it would probly have a larger impact.

[Templar 331]

In the US there is only one constitutional reason for someone to be killed and that is Treason. Other than that, capital punishment is "cruel and unusual" as all humans have the right to live, that is unless they commit treason.

Can you show where in the constitution it says it's ok to execute someone for treason, because this is the first I've ever heard of it. "If your not with us, your against us" kind of comes to mind here.

[Tinykong]

Sure, which would be an absurdity.

If the death penalty is about getting revenge/even, how absurd is it?

[Ebildays]

It is also proven that the death penalty does not deter crime. So what is it? It's a vengeance machine, nothing else.

Any punishment by nature is part of the vengeance machine, not just the death penalty. Our justice system is a form of controlled vengeance in order to keep people from taking out their own form of "justice". We can also say that it is proven that jail and rehabilitation does not deter crime as well by just looking at the crime rates.
I have not read on objective reason why the death penalty is wrong. What people are listing is that they find it morally wrong on some level, that they believe that jail is worst than death, or that everyone can be rehabilitated if given the chance. Objectively the death penalty is akin to putting down a rabid animal, which no one thinks twice about.

[Rennadrel]

it IS cheaper, keeping someone alive at the bare minimum of food/water in solitary confinement vs someone who gets basicly hotel treatment with complete healthcare and entertainment till their "time up" hits with someone that gets paid to watch them along the way if they ever complete the death penalty, not to mention the cost of the forced "humane" death the public wants them to have

it is WAY CHEAPER

And yet so many prisons are of such conditions that the inmates live better then the homeless. It must be nice getting 3 square meals a day, a bed to sleep on, a TV to watch or access to a computer in some prisons and most of them have exercise equipment. Sorry but I don't believe that someone locked up for the rest of their natural life should live in such comfort while we have people sleeping on the streets and the rich get richer and the poor get constantly fucked by the government.