Verdict on Guild Wars 2's innovations

[Sorrior]

I can't help but think Tera's combat is a little overrated. Simply because it's one of the better action based systems out there doesn't mean it was perfect. Animation locks weren't like casting times at all. At least you can cancel a cast, in Tera once you start up your 3-4 second ability (this was particularly bad on warrior) you were stuck. No canceling, no dodging out of it, no moving when your enemy conveniently just side steps out of it causing you to have wasted a cooldown and made yourself a sitting duck.

Tera's method of adding "difficulty" was also the same thing GW2 was trying to do with Orr. Let's just give all the mobs stuns and knockdowns so the difficulty comes in managing to not be incapacitated for 3/4 of any given fight. That's a huge pet peeve of mine. I haven't quite figured out yet how I personally would introduce difficulty into an MMO combat system, but essentially making your character unplayable by enemy actions is not one of them. -_-

Hit rating is a stat I hope I never see again, same with balance.

At least we had tanks and could block on some classes not just dodge and all that. Plus the classes were genuinely distinct/different.

Again one up on GW2

[Meledelion]

At least we had tanks and could block on some classes not just dodge and all that. Plus the classes were genuinely distinct/different.

Again one up on GW2

Only if you think a trinity is better...

[Valeron]

At least we had tanks and could block on some classes not just dodge and all that. Plus the classes were genuinely distinct/different.

Again one up on GW2

depends on your preference and opinion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

[rhandric]

At least we had tanks and could block on some classes not just dodge and all that. Plus the classes were genuinely distinct/different.

Again one up on GW2

My ele blocks attacks quite often when I tell him to, what's your point?

[Kelesti]

At least we had tanks and could block on some classes not just dodge and all that. Plus the classes were genuinely distinct/different.

Again one up on GW2

My Mesmer can both block and parry, as well as stun/interrupt regularily, doing each of these more often than dodge rolling. So I'm not sure where you're getting this false info from.

[Sorrior]

My Mesmer can both block and parry, as well as stun/interrupt regularily, doing each of these more often than dodge rolling. So I'm not sure where you're getting this false info from.

Been awhile and i am stubborn about weapon choices. But my point about having more complex instances and fights still stands.

The trinity fir all it's flaws is a good thing mechanics wise.

[rhandric]

Been awhile and i am stubborn about weapon choices. But my point about having more complex instances and fights still stands.

The trinity fir all it's flaws is a good thing mechanics wise.

Just stating it doesn't make it so.

[Rukh]

No it's not.

I don't mind classes specializing in roles, but the trinity system is based on utterly arbitrary unrealistic threat systems that are long overdue to die.

[Kelesti]

Been awhile and i am stubborn about weapon choices. But my point about having more complex instances and fights still stands.

The trinity fir all it's flaws is a good thing mechanics wise.

Not really. Most fights from a tank's point of view are "Pick up adds (if relevant). Interrupt this thing. Move out of things. Said things will either Cleave or they will Saber Lash, and sometimes you have to kite".

Cool. Now pick a DPS. Do your full damage rotation. You will either be doing it to a single target or occasionally groups. Also occasionally you will swap targets. Continue doing full damage rotation, when required incorporating movement to either avoid damage mechanics or occasionally pick up a rare beneficial element. Repeat.


Go ahead and try to describe fights to me with elements outside of this. Occasionally you'll get a cool one, like Atramedes, but that's the exception, not the rule. And even then that mechanic is "avoid the things, kite the damaging effects both while target is on ground and in air, when necessary interact with <doodad> placed in environment".

With the exceptions of some fights getting amg super buttons for whatever reason, really, the trinity doesn't enable complex fights because of it's design. The design itself is boring as fuck, so people insistent on using it have to try harder to entertain you than without it. ArenaNet failed not because of lack of trinity, but because even if a trinity was implemented their fights just plain suck. Zero focus on QA in a lot of areas, this is readily apparent in some parts of their game.

So don't blame the lack of trinity for ArenaNet not being able to organize crap for actual fights. Because that's not it, at all.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 05:14 PM ----------

No it's not.

I don't mind classes specializing in roles, but the trinity system is based on utterly arbitrary unrealistic threat systems that are long overdue to die.

I actually liked threat when it mattered. Not because it was a realistic approach (Nef: HIT THE ONE IN THE DRESS!), but because it actually placed a limiter on damage dealing classes.

One of the things that grabbed me about Guild Wars was a harkening back to oldschool WarCraft when threat mattered back in BC. Damage dealers could not go completely all out, 100%, right from the beginning. Hell even late into the fight you had to pace yourself, a few unlucky crits meant you either went to a lower dps rotation for a few seconds or just plain outright stopped casting so that you wouldn't pull aggro. It gave a mechanic of self-governing that you yourself were always tweaking differently, especially when trying out new tanks, and when those few fights that actually let you go all out right from the getgo, it felt fun comparatively.

Now? Now 100% is the norm, or worse, the expectation. Any fight that a damage dealer has to limit their output, for any reason at all, is reason to complain to a game designer that this automatically isn't as fun as if they could stand there and deal with Patchwerk again and again.

This is one of the reasons that I liked Guild Wars 2's intended design, with a lot of buttons being either survival focused, or secondary functionality being important so that you could push it on cooldown but it really wasn't what you wanted to do. Not that it lived up to that, but that's why I wanted to be here.

[Deleted]

I take it you haven't done heroic modes I guess Kelesti.

[Kelesti]

I take it you haven't done heroic modes I guess Kelesti.

Which ones? BC heroic dungeons (Heroic Arcatraz in blues with that double sentinel pull was harder than anything in game now, I can promise you). Sunwell pre 30% nerf? Wrath heroic dungeons? Wrath heroic raids (which didn't start until ToGC)? ICC? Ruby Sanctum?

Tier 11, 12, 13?


I asked for someone to describe to me fight mechanics, where it differs from the points made above except in minutiae (and it's all about the minutiae when looking for top performers, that's what seperates wheat/chaff, casual/pro) what you do that makes it more complicated. Your response is "you haven't done them". I fail to see your relevance to the point at hand here.

[Karizee]

I take it you haven't done heroic modes I guess Kelesti.

I have. Most recently I was a Savior of Azeroth during Dragon Soul. I played a warlock and I can tell you that Kelesti is spot on, HM raiding is infinitely easier because of the trinity.

[Kelesti]

I have. Most recently I was a Savior of Azeroth during Dragon Soul. I played a warlock and I can tell you that Kelesti is spot on, HM raiding is infinitely easier because of the trinity.

On the contrary. That's not what I said at all. I'm saying that because the trinity is boring as hell (it is) and its mechanics are not truly inviting greater challenge or input from its participants on its own (they aren't), that Blizzard/Riot/TERA/whoever else has to work harder on encounter design to make things that are challenging and memorable in their own regards, beyond standing behind the boss to shoot <insert your chosen section of rainbow-colored-magic here>.

Those currently are more difficult than almost any encounter ArenaNet has onboard right now, but not because of Trinity, but because of actual interesting mechanics above and beyond them that ArenaNet didn't have the foresight to put in, and a reasonable QA team to actually polish a lot of what they put in as well.




Trinity does not make fights harder, but its inclusion is not an automatic "fight is easy" either. And don't use my words to say I'm "spot on" when you're putting words in my mouth that I have never ever said.

[Karizee]

Sorry Kelesti, I worded it incorrectly.

[Valeron]

this conversation bores me, talk about something else besides trinity and raiding

[Kelesti]

this conversation bores me, talk about something else besides trinity and raiding

MegaMan X was on sale last week on iOS and I bought it for $0.99, felt like it was a really solid purchase. Fatburger was my first meal getting out of the hospital today. Also felt like a really good purchase.


But before I get infracted and smacked upside the head, how was the last state of the Razing? I missed it. Any more news of the wonderful mega updates to be sparkled with confetti for April and other uninspiring"months to come" yet?

[Valeron]

But before I get infracted and smacked upside the head, how was the last state of the Razing? I missed it. Any more news of the wonderful mega updates to be sparkled with confetti for April and other uninspiring"months to come" yet?

It really depends on what you are looking for I suppose. I see a lot of people disappointed with it. Personally I love the idea of it. Right now it isn't really all that great but I do think it's a good base to build on and for the devs to learn with. I believe a lot of folks are wanting a huge patch at once rather than it being all sprinkled about small doses at a time. I suppose that didn't really answer your question but I'll just say that you might as well just play through the content as it is now just to see it. What I'm hoping they do is spread it beyond just the two areas that it is in.

[Porimlys]

I have. Most recently I was a Savior of Azeroth during Dragon Soul. I played a warlock and I can tell you that Kelesti is spot on, HM raiding is infinitely easier because of the trinity.

???

It's designed around a trinity!

[Kelesti]

Sorry Kelesti, I worded it incorrectly.

Also, thank you for addressing my point. I do respect this.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 06:35 PM ----------

Hey you, yes you:

???

It's designed around a trinity!

Answer this:

Not really. Most fights from a tank's point of view are "Pick up adds (if relevant). Interrupt this thing. Move out of things. Said things will either Cleave or they will Saber Lash, and sometimes you have to kite".

Cool. Now pick a DPS. Do your full damage rotation. You will either be doing it to a single target or occasionally groups. Also occasionally you will swap targets. Continue doing full damage rotation, when required incorporating movement to either avoid damage mechanics or occasionally pick up a rare beneficial element. Repeat.


Go ahead and try to describe fights to me with elements outside of this.

[Gereorth666]

My opinion about GW2.. I have a few things I'd like to adress.

The leveling process
It gets a bit too boring for me. Most of the time I spend looking for places where I should go, or just end up doing some WvWvW to get to the correct level for my personal story. As that is the only thing I keep working towards (I dislike the same thing in SWTOR aswell, I just want to keep doing my personal story).
The Dynamic 'Events' are entertaining to say the least. But get repetetive aswell. I adapted myself to being more of a multitasker on the new characters I have.

The combat-style
Oh boy, I live the action-combat. It looks more like an actual fight, instead of the "I stand on the same place, pressing numbers". On my mesmer, for example, I never get hit by regular mobs. Always on the move.
Another part of the combat is the weapons. Each class can use a certain type of weapons and each weapon has its own unique abilities, just like The Secret World did. I enjoy that in both games. That having a certain weapon comes down to certain abilities. I guess you could say SWTOR has that aswell, to limiting each class to basicly only 1 weapon, some 2 (not counting dual-wielding).

Dungeons
I like and dislike the way dungeons work. I like the part of having a story-mode and an exploration-mode. It keeps it interesting to revisit an old dungeon.
The part of not having a dedicated tank and healer sometimes work. But when it's just a repetetive burst-Boss.. I'd like to have a simple tank and healer. Although it's mostly just "Kill the boss as fast as you can while keeping yourself alive".

Overall, I enjoy the game and walking through it. RP is also quite enjoyable thanks to the locations. The cities provide enough place and houses to enter. It's a HUGE world, which I enjoy. Sadly enough, it is something I can't play for too long. I expected the game to be more like how we expect TESO to be now (so, let's hope that game won't let us down!).