Sinister Primal Diamond (hotfixed?)

[ZakAtack]

Just so you know, i still believe that the nerf for corruption/Doom was made because UVoLS trinket, and they made that lame aoe excuse ...

While I like trinkets with cool, fun procs, I don't like this if it's true. A class should not have its abilities flat-out nerfed because a player might get their hands on a trinket. Should the rest of us without it suffer?

I believe they made it this way for destro because destro doesn't need it, to be fair. Nor need buffs..

I also don't agree with this. It's a legendary item, it should give a relatively strong boost to every class that gets it. I know it's impossible to balance something for every class and spec, but making it bad for one on purpose would just be silly.

[ikkesant]

i cant belive it when we get something thats good for us, they nerf it. it was fun for a week, like the sac nerf.. and the corruption nerf.. whats next ?

Affi has been nerfed to much, i mean wtf.....

[Hellfury]

Moonkins and especially elementals been lobbying this for this fix for too long...

Moonkins are great multidotters, I think with 2x proc on the gem for them will catapult them too much since everyone else getting nerfed aswell

Elementals/Moonkins reporting 40-50% uptime thats freeking insane, our previous uptime was arround 20-25% now should be 10-15%?

Elementals I understand they are fixing class DPS via metagem wich is already pathetic by blizzard but imo moonkins dont need such high uptime

[Deleted]

Moonkins and especially elementals been lobbying this for this fix for too long...

Moonkins are great multidotters, I think with 2x proc on the gem for them will catapult them too much since everyone else getting nerfed aswell

Elementals/Moonkins reporting 40-50% uptime thats freeking insane, our previous uptime was arround 20-25% now should be 10-15%?

Elementals I understand they are fixing class DPS via metagem wich is already pathetic by blizzard but imo moonkins dont need such high uptime

Well.. the other (very reasonable) explanation would be, that blizzard gives spec like frost(mage), elemental and moonkin high uptimes so that the gem doesn't just suck for them due to gcd-capping. Then again I totally don't get the low coefficient for destruction.

But I guess it's just a class balance thing, like some of you suggest. I read all the heavy mage-tears on the mage forum about how unfair the low coefficient for fire is (and that some of them want to delete their caracters now if somebody doesn't bring this up on the official forums because most of them seem to be permabanned there.. ) ... and the thing is: The hotfixed metagem seems to be just about a 3% upgrade from the blue metagem which is not much better than it is for destruction. So destruction is not to be the only spec where the gem seems to be intended not to be very special.

[Spoiledkid]

Only Mage Fires and Warlock will be screwed with the hotfix, everyone else gets a "buff". Ele and Bookin will have around 2x more procs. Kinda 3x more procs than us.

Thats kinda sad for us

Well, they gave intended coefficient values way before the hotfix and now the gem is fixed. I don't understand how this screws locks. It isn't a nerf, it is just a fix.

[ZakAtack]

i cant belive it when we get something thats good for us, they nerf it. it was fun for a week, like the sac nerf.. and the corruption nerf.. whats next ?

Affi has been nerfed to much, i mean wtf.....

A class shouldn't be allowed to be OP so it can have fun, as it's no fun for other classes to pale in comparison and get benched. Sac was too strong and didn't fit the design intent of the talent system. Multidotting probably was too strong, although I think it was pathetic that they simultaneously buffed Mage multidot. The proc is very strong for Aff as it's a 10s DS.

But that doesn't mean the proc should be OP for other classes either. Or other specs. We should be aiming for general balance, at least as far as single target goes, it's harder for other scenarios obviously.

[Hellfury]

They are clearly "fixing" some classes thou the metagem.

Thing is procs such as the metagem are fun when it happens makes the game and rotations more dynamic and I dont understand why some classes deserve more uptime than others.

Its the same as saying that Legendary Metagem is more Legendary for Moonkins/Elemental/Frost mage. It should be legendary and fun for everyone.

For those classes also creates a big gap of those that have metagem and those that dont.

Blizzard should "fix" classes thou spell coefficients and mechanics not by the metagem

[Ailerist]

this is why we cant have nice things

[raleeveet]

They are clearly "fixing" some classes thou the metagem.

Thing is procs such as the metagem are fun when it happens makes the game and rotations more dynamic and I dont understand why some classes deserve more uptime than others.

Its the same as saying that Legendary Metagem is more Legendary for Moonkins/Elemental/Frost mage. It should be legendary and fun for everyone.

For those classes also creates a big gap of those that have metagem and those that dont.

Blizzard should "fix" classes thou spell coefficients and mechanics not by the metagem

I get what you're saying, and I agree, but I don't think you're seeing the entire picture. If some classes did not have better proc chances, the gem would actually be less legendary for them. Certain mechanics for different specs severely impact the value of haste, and if they did not have better uptime it would be much less effective for them. I don't understand why that same consideration isn't given to destruction, though.

[Banawani]

I get what you're saying, and I agree, but I don't think you're seeing the entire picture. If some classes did not have better proc chances, the gem would actually be less legendary for them. Certain mechanics for different specs severely impact the value of haste, and if they did not have better uptime it would be much less effective for them. I don't understand why that same consideration isn't given to destruction, though.

It is.

Destro, Demo and Aff all have different coefficients.

0.625 Affliction
0.598 Demonology
0.509 Destruction

[raleeveet]

What you just linked shows that it isn't.

Destro is similar to balance and elemental in that haste isn't as valuable for the spec as it is for a spec like affliction or shadow, yet for some reason it has the lowest proc chance of any of the warlock specs (and of all dps specs, save for fire mages if memory serves). Logically speaking, it should have a higher coefficient in the same way balance and elemental do.

[Banawani]

What...? What I just showed you is exactly what it says.. that there are different coefficients for each spec, not just each class.

Destro is not similar to Balance or Ele. And no, it would not necessarily have a higher coefficient, just because it looks that way on paper.

[sickestnerdchills]

What you just linked shows that it isn't.

Destro is similar to balance and elemental in that haste isn't as valuable for the spec as it is for a spec like affliction or shadow, yet for some reason it has the lowest proc chance of any of the warlock specs (and of all dps specs, save for fire mages if memory serves). Logically speaking, it should have a higher coefficient in the same way balance and elemental do.

You are forgetting that Destro has its place in Raids already, at lower gear levels it is almost impossible to compare to Affliction and Demo. Destro will continue to dominate on fights like Horridon/Tortos/Mag/Primo. Destruction especially early on doesn't need a buff it serves a purpose. The legendary helps to bring Affliction and Demo back to competitive later on. Destro had it's time early on this tier to shine is it so bad that other specs get some lime light later on?

The other classes don't have the option of switching DPS specs (except to go melee), therefore the legendary has to be buffed accordingly. If you want more out of your Legendary Meta Gem stack haste and play Affliction. If you're already good at Destruction you will continue to be fine.

[Delvaz]

This is flawed logic. If they would not have over nerfed affliction then the classes would have been more balanced. Buffing the gem for certain specs cannot be justified to reverse an imbalance earlier in the tier. How about just balance the specs.

[Gohzerlock]

You are forgetting that Destro has its place in Raids already, at lower gear levels it is almost impossible to compare to Affliction and Demo. Destro will continue to dominate on fights like Horridon/Tortos/Mag/Primo. Destruction especially early on doesn't need a buff it serves a purpose. The legendary helps to bring Affliction and Demo back to competitive later on. Destro had it's time early on this tier to shine is it so bad that other specs get some lime light later on?

The other classes don't have the option of switching DPS specs (except to go melee), therefore the legendary has to be buffed accordingly. If you want more out of your Legendary Meta Gem stack haste and play Affliction. If you're already good at Destruction you will continue to be fine.

So.... because a spec is strong on 4 fights, they should make a legendary gem useless unless we switch out a spec some of us happen to enjoy? Makes sense, sounds legendary.

The sad part is I can see this as blizz's logic, we've failed to balance the specs so we'll either make legendary things people aspire to garbage for a powerful spec. Or we'll nerf other specs because we put in a trinket that makes multi dotting insane..

[ZakAtack]

What...? What I just showed you is exactly what it says.. that there are different coefficients for each spec, not just each class.

Destro is not similar to Balance or Ele. And no, it would not necessarily have a higher coefficient, just because it looks that way on paper.

If Destro gains relatively little from the proc itself, for it to feel like a Legendary upgrade, the argument would follow that it should proc more often, compared to Aff which gains a lot from the proc and thus should have a lower proc rate to prevent it from being too powerful. I don't know the theorycrafting of RPPM extremely well but as it's been presented to me, more haste generally means more procs, and because of GCD capping on Backdrafted Incins, you don't want to go too high on Haste for Destro, but you want tons and tons for Aff. So by that logic, Destro, I believe, should have a higher coefficient than Aff.

But then again, Fire has an incredibly low coefficient too I believe so perhaps there's something we are missing, or they're just satisfied leaving certain specs to their niche fights and then trying to balance the specs that will benefit the most from the legendary with each other. Like with PVP, it would be easier to balance if you only have 10 specs constituting the majority of DPS roles, as opposed to 20 (didn't count, just random example numbers for illustrating the point).

[Deleted]

they just need to change the proc, so that when it procs its actually something usefull, it could easily be like how dark soul is for each spec, and basically proc the same stat, so that it is a 10 sec dark soul proccing.

[raleeveet]

What...? What I just showed you is exactly what it says.. that there are different coefficients for each spec, not just each class.

Destro is not similar to Balance or Ele. And no, it would not necessarily have a higher coefficient, just because it looks that way on paper.

I don't think anyone ever disputed that? Certainly not me. If anything, I acknowledged it specifically by mentioning destro and not warlocks in general.

As for destro, it is like the other two specs in that it does not benefit nearly as much from the haste proc as a spec like affliction or shadow might- just like balance and elemental don't. Unless you're going to try to suggest that the proc is somehow just as good for destro as it is for affliction?

[Gohzerlock]

they just need to change the proc, so that when it procs its actually something usefull, it could easily be like how dark soul is for each spec, and basically proc the same stat, so that it is a 10 sec dark soul proccing.

Or just make it an primary stat proc or x damage increase so they can make it idiot proof for balancing.

[sickestnerdchills]

So.... because a spec is strong on 4 fights, they should make a legendary gem useless unless we switch out a spec some of us happen to enjoy? Makes sense, sounds legendary.

The sad part is I can see this as blizz's logic, we've failed to balance the specs so we'll either make legendary things people aspire to garbage for a powerful spec. Or we'll nerf other specs because we put in a trinket that makes multi dotting insane..

It's not just strong it's pretty OP to just spam Chaos Bolt every cast. Spec imbalance has always been in the game I don't know where you you have been for the past 6 years. Some specs scale better than others and as I said Destruction doesn't need a buff. It will continue to be good if you are a decent player. Affliction/Demo on the other hand just cannot get the results Destro can at lower gear levels. The Meta helps them scale. "We need it to feel Legendary" isn't an excuse to buff an already very strong spec.

There is a reason it has coefficients for each spec and not a static increase, It helps them balance the classes better. Think about it.