Feral Damage Really That OP?

[Faenskap]

Jungle cleaves are dominating the ladders. Hunters and ferals everywhere.

One also only needs to see which class is currently OP by looking at what Reckful is currently playing. He loves playing FOTM classes.

Does he play hunter? I've never seen him play a hunter. I never see him play rogue And yes, hunters everywhere. SO FUN

[corebit]

Does he play hunter? I've never seen him play a hunter. I never see him play rogue And yes, hunters everywhere. SO FUN

I think Reckful has a preference for melee classes. So whichever melee is the most OP at the moment, he will play that. Currently he likes to alternate between his DK and Feral.

[villie]

I find Ferals on my mage far easier to deal with as fire, Dragons Breath is a godsend coupled with priest fear and keeping them clean for spell steals/offensive dispels on the natures swiftness drops their preasure a lot due to having to hardcast cyclone if they want cc, making a quick cs/poly viable. Also bursting them with nova/cs-->deep is the key to damage on them.

That being said a good one with all the uptime is raping my partners mana bar for sure lol

[Kojo]

The best solution is to apply some sort of limitation on power-shifting out of roots and snares. Setting energy at zero when shifting into catform would work for pvp, and would seem to have minimal impact in pve as ferals tend not to have to powershift except when they stepped in something they shouldn't have.

So your 'best solution' is to make the spec completely 100% nonviable. This is why I take none of you seriously.

[kosechi]

So your 'best solution' is to make the spec completely 100% nonviable. This is why I take none of you seriously.

iirc feral didn't have powershifting during cata. they did pretty darn well then.

[Hand Banana]

So your 'best solution' is to make the spec completely 100% nonviable. This is why I take none of you seriously.

Oh let me cry some more. Limiting an ability to never be slowed or stopped ever while having multiple gap closers and multiple sprints and the highest passive movespeed. Ferals clearly need all of that or they will be 100% unplayable!

/sarcasm.

[Snuggli]

iirc feral didn't have powershifting during cata. they did pretty darn well then.

They were strong before that change. I think it was 4.0.6 that completely overnerfed Ferals (hit mastery, bleed damage and powershifting all at the same time), and Ferals completely dropped off the face of the earth above 2.2k. Any mage team completely destroyed them.

Ferals powershifting is iconic, and unique. Arguably there is things that should and could get nerfed, but I don't think Powershifting is one of them. The class is kinda balanced around being able to move around the map fast.

[Flaks]

They were strong before that change. I think it was 4.0.6 that completely overnerfed Ferals (hit mastery, bleed damage and powershifting all at the same time), and Ferals completely dropped off the face of the earth above 2.2k. Any mage team completely destroyed them.

Ferals powershifting is iconic, and unique. Arguably there is things that should and could get nerfed, but I don't think Powershifting is one of them. The class is kinda balanced around being able to move around the map fast.

Powershifting got nerfed. 4.1 gave them 2 new ways to break roots and with those they were replacing rogues in most comps pre 4.3 despite lacking power shifting. There was no overnerfing of mastery and bleed damage because they continued being able to deal massive bleed damage, just not 40k+ crits like they could in 4.0.

[asb]

iirc feral didn't have powershifting during cata. they did pretty darn well then.

So much of their damage was from bleeds that it hardly mattered whether they were actually on their target after rip was applied. Now that a more reasonable portion of their damage is back into active abilities, feral would be pretty trash if it couldn't stick to a target. (Also I don't think ferals were amazing throughout Cataclysm. Decent or playable are probably more accurate words.)

I'm not sure whether being designed for nearly complete uptime is inherently flawed--it's pretty iconic for the class and I'd like to hope it can be balanced--but it seems as of now they simply don't have any major weakness to offset it. If they have a core mechanic that makes them strong against ranged classes, they should have a comparable weakness to melee. They are a low-armor target compared to most melee and do take high physical damage, but glyphed cat form offsets that. Rogues and monks are both weaker against physical classes than ferals are and nowhere near as effective against ranged.

And that's to say nothing of polymorph immunity, their healing, and uncommon DR instant ranged CCs (Ranged stuns? ) which also seem to cost them very few balance points. I don't think gutting feral mobility is really necessary, it's just that something has to be nerfed. Top points in mobility should be cool if they have a couple low scores in other categories, but that isn't the case. Ferals are just decent to strong at everything right now.

[Kojo]

iirc feral didn't have powershifting during cata. they did pretty darn well then.

No they did pretty darn mediocre, after they fixed the rake bug and then put a nerf on top of it bleeds were shit, despite what the warrior here thinks (I mean seriously, replacing rogues at a point in time when they were literally one of the worst classes in the game is meaningful? What's really funny, who -really- replaced rogues then, warriors.). And perhaps you should read what I quoted. Or be like this tard:

Oh let me cry some more. Limiting an ability to never be slowed or stopped ever while having multiple gap closers and multiple sprints and the highest passive movespeed. Ferals clearly need all of that or they will be 100% unplayable!

/sarcasm.

You think zero energy after every shift as suggested is merely "limiting"? Really?

[Hand Banana]

You think zero energy after every shift as suggested is merely "limiting"? Really?

No I think limiting their powershifting is the "best solution" as he said, but I didnt say that what he said afterword was any good.

Ferals are OP. Removing power-shifting or at least some of their mobility would make them more balanced. They have the best mobility/uptime of any melee, good instant cc, strong heals (FAR too strong under HotW), and the best defensives of any melee. They cant have everything.

[asb]

No they did pretty darn mediocre, after they fixed the rake bug and then put a nerf on top of it bleeds were shit, despite what the warrior here thinks (I mean seriously, replacing rogues at a point in time when they were literally one of the worst classes in the game is meaningful? What's really funny, who -really- replaced rogues then, warriors.). And perhaps you should read what I quoted. Or be like this tard:

Haven't played a warrior at all in years--mine is actually still level 80--but I do appreciate your assumption that I'm incapable of seeing around class biases whatsoever. I think I have a pretty fair view of the game as a whole regardless of what I'm playing. I apologize if I'm slightly off regarding ferals' damage allocations, but I didn't really play much during Cataclysm. As I said ferals were mediocre so I really didn't run into a ton of them, but from what I saw it seemed that bleeds were the lion's share of feral damage. You make it sound like I'm just crying about bleed damage which isn't the case at all.

Ferals had stronger defenses than rogues this entire expansion so far. Rogues were briefly competitive last patch and still died like nothing in a stun. I don't see what your point is except to blindly justify ferals as nearly balanced. Ferals aren't anywhere near the imbalance levels of discipline and bm, but they're probably sitting clearly between that tier and the rest of the pack right now. That said, I'd be pretty happy with some fairly minor nerfs. It's just that no other melee really competes with a feral as such a well-rounded class right now.

[kosechi]

They were strong before that change. I think it was 4.0.6 that completely overnerfed Ferals (hit mastery, bleed damage and powershifting all at the same time), and Ferals completely dropped off the face of the earth above 2.2k. Any mage team completely destroyed them.

Ferals powershifting is iconic, and unique. Arguably there is things that should and could get nerfed, but I don't think Powershifting is one of them. The class is kinda balanced around being able to move around the map fast.

i remember feral representation being good throughout cata, i remember them literally replacing warriors in most traditional warr comps in s10/s11. there was also the issue of their absurd survivability.

feral/spriest/shaman was a great comp, so was jungle, and while balance was probably stronger due to pve gear, feral was certainly second only to rogues in terms of versatility and strength in melee.

most people in this thread are agreeing that the primary problem with feral is it's unpeelability, the damage and control are both very good, but that combined with the fact that ferals are nearly impossible to control is whats making it so strong.

[Senathor]

They were strong before that change. I think it was 4.0.6 that completely overnerfed Ferals (hit mastery, bleed damage and powershifting all at the same time), and Ferals completely dropped off the face of the earth above 2.2k. Any mage team completely destroyed them.

Ferals powershifting is iconic, and unique. Arguably there is things that should and could get nerfed, but I don't think Powershifting is one of them. The class is kinda balanced around being able to move around the map fast.

Well put a CD on the shifting or something. They have so much mobility right now that they cannot be kited unless stunned and that's dumb.

---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 06:29 AM ----------

Jungle cleaves are dominating the ladders. Hunters and ferals everywhere.

One also only needs to see which class is currently OP by looking at what Reckful is currently playing. He loves playing FOTM classes.

Word. 10 chars

---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 06:30 AM ----------

i see people get killed under 1 stun by ferals and they are fucking impossible to kite compared to other melee classes.
Nerf the fuck outa em.

+1 I'd love this

[JDM]

Ferals are not overpowered, they are strong but not OP, the majority of people that die to them get outplayed...then come to forums and complain. Unless you are a 2000+ rated player, don't open your mouth. (And even then, instead of complaining, figure out what you did wrong and fix it, blame yourself)

There are other classes that should be focused on long before ferals, but that's a story for another day.

[gestapo]

They're definitely not going to nerf damage because the only just buffed it for PVE reasons (that being superior to PVP in Blizzard's eyes). They're also not going to do something as ridiculous as remove root-shifting again or put them at zero energy on shifting (this was made baseline with the new talent system since all ferals took it anyway). Survivability will be untouched, again for pve reasons.

I doubt they'd make any immediate changes to feral until they identify problems with other classes, but if they were to they'd look at the CC again since they won't touch damage and mobility. Though cyclone was nerfed for feral i suspect they'd go that route again. I'm thinking they'll increase the cooldown to around 30 seconds while leaving the range at 20 yards (which is low).

What they could additionally do is tone down the Ravage! damage inside of incarnation + zerk. I'm not sure how that should be approached, but then again seeing Enhance, Ele burst I don't think feral is first in line for a toning down in that area.

[TJ]

Ferals are not overpowered, they are strong but not OP, the majority of people that die to them get outplayed...then come to forums and complain. Unless you are a 2000+ rated player, don't open your mouth. (And even then, instead of complaining, figure out what you did wrong and fix it, blame yourself)

There are other classes that should be focused on long before ferals, but that's a story for another day.

Some might get outplayed, but to say everyone that is killed by a Feral was outplayed is beyond ridiculous. They have so many defensives, insane uptime, and good damage which goes through the roof with cd's. They are a very strong class, a little too strong. It's almost guaranteed that you play a Feral and don't want them nerfed.

[rcgn]

It's probably been said before but the thing that I feel makes ferals so damn op is the fact that theyre almost impossible to peel. They have insane uptime for the amount of damage they can dish out. Especially with the fact that with bleeds up, even in the few seconds they aren't on their target, theyre doing a lot of damage.

I'm not sure if mobility is what needs to be nerfed and I feel if damage is nerfed then the lower rated ferals (majority) who have harder times getting target uptime would complain (not to mention PVE). I want to believe in Blizz but they're either going to be too weak (lower rate) or too strong (higher rate).

edit; and HOTW could do a bit of changing for ferals and boomkins. Maybe if HT benefit from HOTW was reduced by 50% but keep the rejuv buff from it would make it look less OP. But I don't play DPS druid so I'm not sure how that much it's needed.

[Deleted]

Ferals are the only dps I can't handle as a resto shaman. Every other melee is fine, even rogues, but Feral have way too much cc, and are immune to mostly everything. >>
In 2v2, feral + heal is the only team we have no chance against...

[apepi]

I do not really have that much of a problem with feral druids as a mistweaver, sure they are a little harder to kite, but nothing that I can not handle.