[Holy] Patch 5.4 PTR - Changes Discussion

[raderack]

Greetings...there is any chance..even 0,00001% that holy paladin would get any love..instead of reworking..and taking things from us...
So now,that the hot(healing over time...if i guessed it right) is nerfed..i will depend only of direct heals,and aoe heals(witch isnt exactly great..comparing to the other healers)...is that?

Sorry for the bad english..that isnt my mother language..

[dragconus]

It seams they don't know the overall problem....If you don't want mp5 generated through melee then fine...you don't want mastery proc's from hots then fine. The new
GotAK buff is a haste NERF by the way to pali's that knew how to use it..The DP buff that doesn't take away 50% of healing is also NOT a buff to pali's that
know how to use it and last...giving our free heals a 10% increase while destroying at least one of the mechanics of the two is also...NOT A BUFF! Well...that last one maybe to LoD is ,but really, whats 10% going to do for that spell?


Here is some of the REAL problems...our only quick cast spell is one of our most expensive...but tied with shock and free spells it's the only cast spell that can
compete with the speed of other healers except disc priest , who dps all the time in which case ,they heal all the time. as mentioned as one of the only viable speed spells HS has a 6 second GCD (ouch) and of coarse the overall killer...stats. I know , why the stats .Well that's simple , while other healers stack mastery as we do. They get a
straight healing buff for it that grows as there ilvl (gear) gets better while ours is a static 5% as long as SoI is active. This is becoming an apparent problem.


Here is the simple fix. Reduces cast speed of HL by 0.7 seconds . Reduce the GCD of SH by 3 seconds . Redesign HR . Add a Healing output boost through our mastery so
when gear gets better ...so do we.

All joking aside . ... I've been a holy pali since BC... I even lvled as it...which was not easy in BC. And as a class we've been through a lot, and I mean a lot .If Blizz can't get this right..if they fail this class again in mid expac. As much as they want to blow off the fail on "Holy pali's have survived before " then i'm done.

It's not that I don't still find this fun after all these years or a lil " change " is going to break my class. I've had to constantly relearn from scratch every time and while the other healers are doing there job...i'm falling more behind on mine. I will not hold back my guildies because someone got lazy on this build.

[Freia]

Pretty much everything GC says is a joke. I really don't think he pays attention to the game and just waits for someone else on the development team to tell him that a class needs buffs (proof:how he will state a class is fine until the day they receive big buffs). Using past expansions as proof that the EF change won't break us, stating that all of disc's strength's just makes them versatile over OP, etc.; everything he posts shows how clueless he is.

[Deleted]

Has anybody had a chance to test the new GOAK on ptr yet, and if so how much output is it providing?

[Deleted]

It's NYI on the ptr, and to be honest even if it did infinity healing for those 15 seconds every 5 min we would still be subpar compared to every other healer in 5.4. Our toolkit is so limited that I just cannot see a place for Hpaladins next patch without some major changes. Their insistence on making SH and SS viable for holy is extremely frustrating because anyone here knows they will not go far enough with the buffs to make us take them over EF.

These are the changes we need to stay competitive next tier IMO:
-HS on 4 sec CD
-EF once again applies IH.
-SH gives judgment 15 sec CD and makes it generate 3 HP. Using it now applies 10k IH to everyone in the raid.
-SS no longer limited to 1 target, make it 3-4 target cap.

[Taygete]

These are the changes we need to stay competitive next tier IMO:
-HS on 4 sec CD
-EF once again applies IH.
-SH gives judgment 15 sec CD and makes it generate 3 HP. Using it now applies 10k IH to everyone in the raid.
-SS no longer limited to 1 target, make it 3-4 target cap.

I don't even know what to say to that, lol. I would be pretty happy with judgment giving us a charge of HP, but I don't see why they would go and do that and leave it at that after effectively going out of their way to make it not worth using CS for HP generation... I would love it if they made it so that we get HP and some mana back, since we're sortof going backwards by making plea stack with spirit blahblahblah.

Honestly, I liked having a niche as a healer. I wouldn't mind if they made us stronger burst single target healing again. I know that it's been brought up and shot down recently, but I really enjoyed those haste stacked bomb heals as compared to the slower mastery stacked ones. I honestly wouldn't mind going back in that direction. Seeing IH as your top heal all of the time is boring. Spamming HR is boring. Having played alongside a mistweaver and a rdruid, before (though not currently)... EF is fun, but until recently we never had hots as a substantial part of our healing. If I wanted to play a hot class, I would reroll. Give me my big fat heals and my utility and I will be a happy paladin.

But I agree with the other posters in that the whole jack of all/master of none thing is a load of crap. If they are going to push us into a niche again, no reason to do it half heartedly.

[mcbubble]

Does anyone know if they're finished with H Pallies in the PTR?
I haven't seen if they plan on implementing any new changes.

[Hypasonic]

Does anyone know if they're finished with H Pallies in the PTR?
I haven't seen if they plan on implementing any new changes.

Not finished yet, some of the changes they have been saying haven't even been implemented on the PTR yet, they even said they might try judgment giving holy power for holy (with the SH talent) but they weren't too keen on it.

They want to buff LoD more but without it becoming better than EF/WoG use. Why don't they just look at our core spell, holy shock....and do something about that instead.

[Deleted]

It's NYI on the ptr, and to be honest even if it did infinity healing for those 15 seconds every 5 min

Right now, I'd bite their hand off at 15 seconds of invincibility! Would at least give us some very unique utility and very likely earn us raidspots.

[Absintheminded]

They're not done, they have also been talking about making SS better in addition to the changes that have not yet been implemented and the things that may or may not be changes like HP for Judgment when specced SH.

[Deleted]

I don't even know what to say to that, lol. I would be pretty happy with judgment giving us a charge of HP, but I don't see why they would go and do that and leave it at that after effectively going out of their way to make it not worth using CS for HP generation... I would love it if they made it so that we get HP and some mana back, since we're sortof going backwards by making plea stack with spirit blahblahblah.

I don't see how judgment giving 1 charge of HP would fix our problems, I don't know if you did any PTR testing but so far we get wrecked by every other class. On ptr EF has lost ~25% of it's raw healing compared to live(and lost much more of it's effective healing because the loss was IH) and LoD is much weaker compared to what other classes bring to the table in terms of aoe healing. Also you need to remember that Judgment is a gcd so it needs to do alot more than generate 1 HP for it to be worth taking over EF.

Also this "we should be best burst healers" nonsense is driving me crazy...druids have genesis and mushrooms, monks have uplift, SCK and torpedo, priests will have SS on a 43 sec CD with the trinket(thats 35% uptime). I fail to see how paladins can become the best burst healers.

[dragconus]

Pretty much everything GC says is a joke. I really don't think he pays attention to the game and just waits for someone else on the development team to tell him that a class needs buffs (proof:how he will state a class is fine until the day they receive big buffs). Using past expansions as proof that the EF change won't break us, stating that all of disc's strength's just makes them versatile over OP, etc.; everything he posts shows how clueless he is.

Exactly how I felt when I wrote the end of the post just above yours. In the end if using past expansions is a viable excuse then the bosses and every other class need to be rerouted to those difficulty's . But we all know the past holy pali won't work in this expac.

[Gilthresa]

Sanctity of Battle (Holy) Melee haste effects lower the cooldown and global cooldown of your Holy Shock, Judgment, Crusader Strike, and Hammer of Wrath.

Holy shock guize!

Still no change to DP glyph though

[xStrike]

Sanctity of Battle (Holy) Melee haste effects lower the cooldown and global cooldown of your Holy Shock, Judgment, Crusader Strike, and Hammer of Wrath.

Holy shock guize!

This makes me extremely happy.

And I see Selfless Healer for holy will generate holy power now when you use Judgment.

[Gilthresa]

This makes me extremely happy.

And I see Selfless Healer for holy will generate holy power now when you use Judgment.

I still don't think it will be enough for us to use SH.. we will see though

[Freia]

I really feel like SH would just make our whole rotation clunky.

[Floopa]

Is the holy shock change enough to make Paladins gem spirit/haste instead of spirit/mastery? Just curious because without gearing/gemming around haste most Paladins aren't going to have a lot of haste rating. Especially not at the levels where it would impact your HP generation by a significant value.

Also I imagine this is the new GoAK (holy): Light of the Ancient Kings Heals the target and allies within 10 yards of the target. Every time the Guardian heals, it increases your haste by 10%. 100 yd range. Instant. 100 yd range. Instant.

Interesting that it increases by 10% every time it heals.

[xStrike]

I still don't think it will be enough for us to use SH.. we will see though

Well, on a majority of fights, I find myself in a dilemma that I can't use CS to generate extra HP because I don't want to drop anything bad in melee that only targets ranged players.

I more than welcome a ranged method of generating extra HP with the benefit that it'll lead to an almost free, buffed FoL.

But like you said, we'll have to see how it actually performs to decide whether it'll hurt switching from EF for it.

[Freia]

Is the holy shock change enough to make Paladins gem spirit/haste instead of spirit/mastery? Just curious because without gearing/gemming around haste most Paladins aren't going to have a lot of haste rating. Especially not at the levels where it would impact your HP generation by a significant value.

Also I imagine this is the new GoAK (holy): Light of the Ancient Kings Heals the target and allies within 10 yards of the target. Every time the Guardian heals, it increases your haste by 10%. 100 yd range. Instant. 100 yd range. Instant.

Interesting that it increases by 10% every time it heals.

The new guardian isn't stacking haste anymore.

[Hypasonic]

Is the holy shock change enough to make Paladins gem spirit/haste instead of spirit/mastery? Just curious because without gearing/gemming around haste most Paladins aren't going to have a lot of haste rating. Especially not at the levels where it would impact your HP generation by a significant value.

Also I imagine this is the new GoAK (holy): Light of the Ancient Kings Heals the target and allies within 10 yards of the target. Every time the Guardian heals, it increases your haste by 10%. 100 yd range. Instant. 100 yd range. Instant.

Interesting that it increases by 10% every time it heals.

It doesn't, it just gives a static amount (10% iirc) for the entire duration, 15 seconds.