Problematic raider. Need advice bad.

[Kassadin]

OP, I'll be straight forward with you.

If this veteran player really IS chasing away players with his attitude (especially as many as you claim), then in accordance with your story f your GM, I would branch off from that guild and create your own or find a new guild. There are implications I can see in the future happening to that guild. For starters, The lack of a GM presence will only make this situation worse. Also, if he's chasing away that many players, then by now most likely your guild has a terrible reputation with PuGs since word travels remarkably quickly. Anyone would agree with me when I say this: Once you lose the PuG community, that guild will be destined to fall eventually.

I was in a similar situation like that in my earlier days; the GM and a few officers were assholes that were EXTREMELY conceited. In a blind fit of rage, he kicked everyone I invited to his guild (we joined from another guild due the that other guild being casual...we wanted to raid). When the day was done, only five people were left in his guild (Him and his officer friends), and they never really managed to recuperate because everyone had already blacklisted the shit out of their guild. We went unto to form out own thriving guild, while that guild leader gave up on WoW and went unto SWTOR.

[Saffa]

Make a rank, equivalent to his current, where he cannot talk. When he is toxic - put him in it, explaining until he gets his mouth in order he is there an hour.
Next time 2 hours etc.

[Deleted]

He is a bit of a prick. Not even sarcastic about it. He is straight up blunt, and a bit high and mighty about it like it was soo obvious to him. Just the other day we had a new recruit who was learning the fights. Two attempts in he says "Im not explaining it anymore. Either figure it out or watch a video. You should know this". It was a fight we had only killed the week earlier for the first time.

To be quite honest that example sound much like my current raid leader. And honestly I don't see an issue with it, at the level where I raid (6/14hc). It seems to me that you guys have different opinions of what you want to achieve in this game. You should talk to your guild and figure this out and find out if it's you or him that has to leave.
Could I ask how far your guild is progressed atm?

EDIT: Alright I just saw this reply.

He was the raid leader at the time. But threw a fit when the new raid leader called him out on his attitude. So he stopped raid leader and just shut up. He is the kind of guy that when you call him out, goes baby mode and just shuts up all mad. He has a bit of authority because he was an officer as well until the other officers had enough of him.

This doesn't sound like my raid leader then. Strict and blunt is fine. Being completely biased and unable to tolerate critique is not.

[Deleted]

Being harsh or blunt is ok, so is getting angry, criticizing people or rising your voice - but that's only if you're constructive. From OP's description the raider in question is not constructive, he's a narcissistic bitch who wants to be the center of attention and feels the urge to show everyone how damn awesome he is, even if that means subverting the chain of command. There's no place for that shit in a group imo, no matter what level of play we're talking about.

[Gandrake]

Ok, example. He says things like "maybe if you pay attention or heal, we will actually get things killed". Or I for example say I figured out something and he says 'Imagine that, avoid the mechanic that hurts you helps keep you alive". Those types of comments.

Had a raider like that once.

When we kicked him, guild members asked me why I didn't hate him so much. I told them it was because I'd had him muted in vent for the past two weeks.

Officers in any guild that is halfway serious should be telling players when they are doing shit wrong

sure

but dont be surprised when you find out no one wants to listen to you bitch like you're 12 years old or something. cuz at that point you are just making the environment more intense and raiding is no longer about killing bosses and getting loot, its about figuring out how to make the person in question stop whining like a little bitch.

[Nekovivie]

He sounds like he's in the wrong guild.

[Deleted]

dont be surprised when you find out no one wants to listen to you bitch like you're 12 years old or something. cuz at that point you are just making the environment more intense and raiding is no longer about killing bosses and getting loot, its about figuring out how to make the person in question stop whining like a little bitch.

I dont think you understood him at all, if you're in any half-serious guild you respect the officers enough to not take their whispered criticism as what you describe as "bitching like a 12 years old, or something" but as constructive criticism as for what went wrong and how you can improve yourself.

But sure, if you're allergic to criticism I suppose you'd see any kind of feedback as "bitching like a 12 years old".

On topic, I'd leave that guild if the GM and other officers are okay with that kind of behaviour described by TS.

[Thelxi]

He sounds like a sociopath. Either find a way to get him kicked or leave yourself simple as that.

[Terridon]

Well. Sounds like you're capable of finding people. Find out if the majority agrees, which it sounds like they should, and then tell him he have to change or he's out of the raid. If that's not an option, form your own, with those others in the raid that don't like him+the many people you've been able to find.
I'm impressed how many you've managed to find. Took me ages to find good and nice people, when we were in the same situation at you(without one to scare them away when i found one).

From what i can see of your replies you can't get him kicked out, so you can do 2 things. Either form a new guild and get a new raid going with those few from the old that would like to join+those that got scared away, or simply join a new raid. Doesn't even sound like you love your current guild that much.
Seems like you should have an easy solution at hand.

He was the raid leader at the time. But threw a fit when the new raid leader called him out on his attitude. So he stopped raid leader and just shut up. He is the kind of guy that when you call him out, goes baby mode and just shuts up all mad. He has a bit of authority because he was an officer as well until the other officers had enough of him.

Somehow that sounds a lot like the RL of the guild nobleshield were in, storywise.

Just quit the guild, and tell why. Considered you were the one finding people, it will be annoying to them. Just don't begin to flame when you leave.

[Sunnydee]

so read every single post OP made in this thread...

and tbh.. im asking myself more..

why is OP still in the guild?!

[Nobleshield]

My guild went through a similar thing. Have an officers meeting without this person (presuming he's an officer?). Discuss it. Bring up that it's A) Costing you recruits and B) Giving your guild a bad reputation that can hurt you. If this person is that toxic I'm sure others will see it. If you come to a consensus they have to go, be polite but firm and explain the reasons, don't turn it into a personal attack but make it clear the guild can't function like that, they are actually causing the guild to have a bad reputation which hurts recruitment.

If nobody else cares about it, then it might come down to you deciding to go elsewhere, or if you remove this person and let's say they make an apology and get invited back and then just go right back to their old ways as though nothing changed.

I'll be flat out honest I had to read this a few times to make sure this wasn't something obfuscated with my own guild, because some of it is eerily similar. But we aren't that far progressed (I wish!) and we haven't lost that many people. My advice still stands, if nobody else cares then leave, because a person like that is downright toxic and not only hurts your guild now but your guild in the future; how many of those people he scared off have gone around telling others "Don't join <Guild> because <Player> is a total asshole"? how many potential recruits have you lost because they don't want to apply to a guild with such a bad reputation?

[Alhoon]

Actually, only one or two of them were bad. The rest of them were good. They just can't stand the guy.

So as you brought up in an example, you say that this person acts all high and mighty, complaining about mistakes people make etc.. Then tell me why did the good players leave? If they were good, they didn't make mistakes and completed their roles well, I can't see how he would complain about them.

[Siri]

so read every single post OP made in this thread...

and tbh.. im asking myself more..

why is OP still in the guild?!

I agree with this.
If you can't get him kicked, then leave. The only one responsible for your situation is you.

[Deleted]

Unless he pulls a million dps single target on a 10 minute fight, you should definitely kick him.

[judgementofantonidas]

My guild is currently 10/14N SoO. This is good compared to our luck the last two tiers. However, we have had a recurring problem with a veteran member of the guild. First, a bit of background. We started this expansion a few short. Raiders who didn't come back for what ever reason. This lead us to having to recruit a tank, and two healers. I got promoted to officer and got to recruiting. Now, the problem should have been fixed. Sadly, it didn't. Each time we recruit a new healer, within a month, this veteran raiders attitude chases them away. He has also managed to chase away every tank ive gotten. In total, we have gone through five tanks, 3-4dps, and over 10 healers, all because they can't stand this guy.

I am at a loss as to what to do. Even a good friend of mine who came from a hard core guild where an officer raged himself into the ER couldn't handle this guys attitude. He doesn't scream, he doesn't yell. Its literally just him. He has been here since before I was even in the guild. We have even had officers leave because of him.

Its getting to the point where I simply can't keep up. I get someone, he loses them. The last healer was within two days! Is there anything I can do? He has been here much longer then I, so I fear there is literally nothing I can do to get this to at least lessen. Im now having to deal with an OT who is lacking raid awareness or tanking capabilities so badly just so we can raid. Still don't have another healer. I don't think we can get very many more healers.

My question to you is does HE get the job done? Is what he brings to the fight worth losing a few thin skinned players over? If not get rid of him. If so then recruit players who are not so thin skinned.

A raid team does not have to be about everyone wanting to hug each other and pass daises around. It is about accomplishing a goal. I have run for full expansions with people that I could care less about. Unless they become personal an elitist attitude does not bother me one bit so long as they pull the numbers to support the attitude. However if they are a crap player that uses their longevity with the guild to in some way belittle others the answer is clear. The less drama the better but at the end of the day I stand firmly by the statement that a raid team does not NEED to love one another they need simply to comply and perform.

[Zantera]

I feel your pain. If there's no way to get rid of him, I would probably have left the guild and found a new one.

[Terridon]

So as you brought up in an example, you say that this person acts all high and mighty, complaining about mistakes people make etc.. Then tell me why did the good players leave? If they were good, they didn't make mistakes and completed their roles well, I can't see how he would complain about them.

A new person not knowing a fight, making a mistake third time isn't unheard of :P
Specially considered that this guild most certainly used more than 2 pulls to down that boss the week before, in one of the examples. So he's playing high and mighty without any right to do so.
If nobody makes a mistake after the first 2 tries everybody would have cleared the raids by now.

[Daeaye]

Okay so I've read the entire post now, and I have to adjust my standing (bad habit of mine, to post after only reading the OP).

From what I've said he doesn't seem that bad, just irritating. Perhaps just simply tell him to stop being so sarcastic - sarcasm isn't that bad, but if he's really doing it that much it can be very irritating - or (I know, I know, two wrongs don't make a right) direct some of your own sarcasm his way. He probably won't like it and will up and leave.

There's every possibility that he doesn't mean it in a bad way. I can say, hand on heart, I am like this person when I'm nervous, when I'm talking to or meeting people I don't know all that well, in person and online. It's a defensive strategy that keeps people away from me, but I never mean to attack anyone with it, I just do it as a joke, and I can't help it. Is he on vent or is this all typed? There's a good chance, either way, that his tone isn't properly conveyed. Some people are just eternally awkward.

Another solution: warn the new recruits. If the older people can tolerate it because they say "hey, that's just Jim", then it's not as bad as it could be. If you warn the new recruits that there is a vaguely toxic individual in the raid, and that he says sarcastic things but never to take him seriously because he's just awkward and doesn't truly mean them in a bad way (whether that's true or not) but he is worth keeping around tactically as far as raiding - the point of a raiding guild (social comes second, though you do all need to get along) - is concerned, then, odds are, when they do witness or even fall victim to said toxic behaviour it may not bother them as much, or they might even laugh at it because they're prepared. It might sound silly but that does work in many different situations. If someone is aware of something they'll be careful to avoid setting it off, by for example upsetting the toxic individual, or they'll be in lighter spirits when it does happen.

These are just my thoughts, at any rate.

[Illiterate]

Kick him or leave.

[Ichifails]

so read every single post OP made in this thread...

and tbh.. im asking myself more..

why is OP still in the guild?!

Because the OP is Zantos. Most of his Threads and Posts are either made in such a way that they seem borderline trolling or not even close to what reality would have you believe is real.

I can't really understand how he's not banned here. He's complaining about most people in his guild for about 1 year now... that they are doing X and Y wrong even tho most of the time is just bullshit.

INFRACTED: Please do not call others trolls or insinuate that they are trolling. If you feel a thread is breaking the rules please report it. -Nobleshield