[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[celinamuna]

The thing about all those fights (and even Thok, apparently - I read it as if you were the only tank in the raid group for that fight, but obviously not) is that unlike say, Durumu or Iron Qon last tier, you have the option of letting the boss hit someone else initially while you build BoG stacks. Last tier, if you didn't have aggro on Durumu, Durumu would kill your squishier compatriots. This tier, on every single boss, you have the option of letting your co-tank aggro everything for a while so you can build stacks.

Anyhow, as has been stated multiple times now, never EF yourself at 0 BoG stacks. It's just a waste.

I would say that on heroic i can def see solo tanking protectors and thok (10M)
On normal i'd say immerseus,protectors,iron jugger (with baws heals) and thok.

I'm coming up to the Spoils of Pandaria fight on normal soon - had a taste of it on LFR and Flex. Should tanks be the ones who open the crates or the dps? On LFR, I found I was interrupted sometimes, so wonder if it's better for a ranged dps to do it. But it seems something of a dps race, so maybe tanks are expected to do it to free up the dpsers?

Honestly it depends if you're popping a lot of crates at the same time (say when i'm on mogu it's the massive + 3 smaller ones) i usually try to get dps to open a few of them that way all adds are up in ~2 sec. Overall if you're opening 1-2 crates tanks can handle it, but if you're opening a bunch (sometimes we open 5 small+) then you should also get your dps involved.

[Nillo]

Immerseus should also be solo tankable on heroic.
Protectors I think is kind of unreasonable to do since you're not doing anyone a favor with that. (0 melee maybe but still...)

Malkorok, Siegecrafter and Garrosh might be solo tankable as well but that's mostly suicidal shit ~

[Deleted]

Protectors I think is kind of unreasonable to do since you're not doing anyone a favor with that. (0 melee maybe but still...)

It is not unreasonable at all to be honest. If protectors were actually a hard heroic we would probably have solo tanked it. The main reason not to solo tank it, is the same reason as Immerseus. It is just so easy, so why bother.

On topic of what is solo tankable

Normal: Immerseus, Protectors, Norushen, Galakras, Iron Jugg, Nazgrim, Malkorok, Thok, Siegecrafter, Paragons, Garrosh.

Out of these. Galakras, Jugg, Nazgrim and Malk are not really that good to solo tank, as the only guilds that can do it is guilds vastly overgearing them, i.e. heroic guilds. I guess Galakras and Jugg is doable without overgearing, but requires way to much CD management to be rewarding for a normal mode. Norushen is also not really rewardig to solo tank, it is more one of those, if your other tank gets a DC or is away for the raid, you can do it, but if you have 2 tanks there is no point.

In heroic: Immerseus, Protectors, Norushenand Thok is solo tankable afaik. Malkorok is probably doable with 1 tank, but no real gain. My guild was toying around with using 1 tank on Malk, but in the end, being able to solo tank the blood rage is more valuable than solo tanking the regular phase.

[Nillo]

Still don't get the point of protectors solo tanking
1) You're not gaining that much extra vengeance from a second target
2) Once He uses the poison you'll constantly be moving while having rook on you which doesn't sound very healthy for the melee dps
3) If you mess up once that's most likely going to end in a wipe


I really can't see Galakras p1 being solo tankable but p2 definitely is.

[Deleted]

Still don't get the point of protectors solo tanking
1) You're not gaining that much extra vengeance from a second target
2) Once He uses the poison you'll constantly be moving while having rook on you which doesn't sound very healthy for the melee dps
3) If you mess up once that's most likely going to end in a wipe


I really can't see Galakras p1 being solo tankable but p2 definitely is.

It is not like tanks are doing that much damage. You being able to keep bosses stacked at all points allows you cleave much more. You got much more GC procs aswell. The main benefit is that if you can trade in another good dps on the fight, you gain a shitton of dps. I am not at all saying it is as goto solo tank as Iron Qon was for example, but it is probably on the level of Tortos solo tanking. If your setup allows it and your other tank has a viable dps spec / dps alt, then sure go for it.

And for Galakras, I agree. It is doable, not adviseable. P1 is solo tankable by having for example a rogue with symbiosis or a druid with heart of the wild tanking. I guess maybe a warrior dps could tank the towers aswell.

[celinamuna]

Problem with malkorok is that last i checked the stacks don't reset during the blood rage, so you're going to be going into it with 60 stacks ~ +600% dmg taken.
Garrosh on normal is def solo tankable, the only sketchy part is the adds in the temple of red crane (2 big adds)
Siegecrafter ... yea i'm not really seeing it as solo tankable, i can see surviving 6 stacks of debuff, but after that ... it's hmmm...
Jugger actually is somewhat rewarding to solo tank since it's just a helluva of extra dps (on lfr (?) i believe i was sitting at around 300k+ once the stacks build up, then fall down to 200 and go up again)

I was going to put immerseus, but it gets sketchy with the cd management, because if you don't push him at right time the stacks won't reset before the next part.

Tbh the main point of solo tanking at this point is just another dps doing > dps than a 2nd tank, and you doing more dps.

[Deleted]

Yeah, true. Stacks maybe dont reset on Malk, so in that case we can scratch that unless you are really really overgearing it.
Siegecrafter is just a dps race. You can easily kill the boss before the stacks kill the tank.

Immerseus is not that sketchy tbh. Even if for some reasons stacks dont reset, you can easily survive that.

[celinamuna]

Yeah, true. Stacks maybe dont reset on Malk, so in that case we can scratch that unless you are really really overgearing it.
Siegecrafter is just a dps race. You can easily kill the boss before the stacks kill the tank.

Immerseus is not that sketchy tbh. Even if for some reasons stacks dont reset, you can easily survive that.

I feel like it depends on dps, if you take 3 stacks in p1

DP , DP , DP + devo then 2nd phase you got DP + Kings , AD and don't think anything for 6th one ?

[Deleted]

I feel like it depends on dps, if you take 3 stacks in p1

DP , DP , DP + devo then 2nd phase you got DP + Kings , AD and don't think anything for 6th one ?

Talking Immerseus here? Since if you get 3 stacks on immerseus something is terribly wrong with your dps.

[celinamuna]

Talking Immerseus here? Since if you get 3 stacks on immerseus something is terribly wrong with your dps.

Honestly i don't remember how many stacks we had on first kill. The point being that some of the fights IJ / Prot / Thok can be solo tanked regardless of raid dps and ability to push phases, some of the others can't.
Hell while playing on my alt (in a diff group) our first IJ kill was 3 tank and 4 heals (epic raid comp is epic)

[Nillo]

Problem with malkorok is that last i checked the stacks don't reset during the blood rage, so you're going to be going into it with 60 stacks ~ +600% dmg taken.
Siegecrafter ... yea i'm not really seeing it as solo tankable, i can see surviving 6 stacks of debuff, but after that ... it's hmmm...
Jugger actually is somewhat rewarding to solo tank since it's just a helluva of extra dps (on lfr (?) i believe i was sitting at around 300k+ once the stacks build up, then fall down to 200 and go up again)

I was going to put immerseus, but it gets sketchy with the cd management, because if you don't push him at right time the stacks won't reset before the next part.

Tbh the main point of solo tanking at this point is just another dps doing > dps than a 2nd tank, and you doing more dps.

Just let someone else taunt malkorok for the blood rage - damage is split anyway.

Siegecrafter I survived several casts at 10 stacks on my warrior so that shouldn't be a problem with a well geared pally. The question is if you get stacks fast enough to kill the first add before it rapes the raid.

Almost solo tanked Jugger on our first kill, because the OT died (and I survived until the last breath before transition).

[Deleted]

Siegecrafter I survived several casts at 10 stacks on my warrior so that shouldn't be a problem with a well geared pally. The question is if you get stacks fast enough to kill the first add before it rapes the raid.

Killing the add while tanking the boss is 0 issue. I have done so several times on heroic progression after the other tank died.

The first add might die a bit slow. But the adds got insanely low health on 10 man normal, you should really blow it up instantly. The shreddars actually got almost 100% more health in heroic than normal, so killing the shreddars in normal should not be a problem at all.

[Deleted]

Killing the add while tanking the boss is 0 issue. I have done so several times on heroic progression after the other tank died.

The first add might die a bit slow. But the adds got insanely low health on 10 man normal, you should really blow it up instantly. The shreddars actually got almost 100% more health in heroic than normal, so killing the shreddars in normal should not be a problem at all.

You guys killed it yet? hoping for a kill tonight before we clear but with the limited time left it seems a little unlikely.

[Deleted]

You guys killed it yet? hoping for a kill tonight before we clear but with the limited time left it seems a little unlikely.

Actually yes. It should have been dead this thursday though imo, felt really late. Had so many setbacks, servers crashing, our best ranged dps went away for this entire week, our best melee dps decided to quit raiding so had to deal a lot with internal roster issues.

On our last raid, it was looking like shit was wiping for 2 hours at shit %, like 40-70% wipes over and over again, heck people died at the 1-2 set of weapons, just terrible. Then suddenly, the boss just dropped dead with all 10 players alive. Dunno wtf happened, it just died. I was prepared to not get the kill, I didnt think we had snowballs chance in hell to kill it until our warlock came back, but somehow we manged to kill it lacking our best dps on the weapons and no healthstones.
Honestly it felt more like luck than skill. But as said earlier it felt like we should have killed this boss last thursday. Not looking forward to the next weeks "farm" kill.

[Deleted]

Actually yes. It should have been dead this thursday though imo, felt really late. Had so many setbacks, servers crashing, our best ranged dps went away for this entire week, our best melee dps decided to quit raiding so had to deal a lot with internal roster issues.

On our last raid, it was looking like shit was wiping for 2 hours at shit %, like 40-70% wipes over and over again, heck people died at the 1-2 set of weapons, just terrible. Then suddenly, the boss just dropped dead with all 10 players alive. Dunno wtf happened, it just died. I was prepared to not get the kill, I didnt think we had snowballs chance in hell to kill it until our warlock came back, but somehow we manged to kill it lacking our best dps on the weapons and no healthstones.
Honestly it felt more like luck than skill. But as said earlier it felt like we should have killed this boss last thursday. Not looking forward to the next weeks "farm" kill.

Nice. Had a ~20% wipe where we then mismanaged stacks and couldn't kill add and people fell over. Good momentum several hours left of the raid and then the GM got internet issues and when we started pulling again we had the same kind of night you had with 70-40% wipes all over. Q.Q

[Lethora]

It is not like tanks are doing that much damage. You being able to keep bosses stacked at all points allows you cleave much more. You got much more GC procs aswell. The main benefit is that if you can trade in another good dps on the fight, you gain a shitton of dps. I am not at all saying it is as goto solo tank as Iron Qon was for example, but it is probably on the level of Tortos solo tanking. If your setup allows it and your other tank has a viable dps spec / dps alt, then sure go for it.

It's not viable at all. You can't have He in melee range when he has Noxious poison up. Your raid will die. Speaking from 25man hc PoV as someone who actually tanks He.
I just move him in when he has Instant poison and drag him away when Noxious is up. There's just no other way when your raid has 6+ melee dps. They stay on Rook and Sun whole time (which are nicely stacked, since there's no real danger of having Rook in the middle), only cleaving He when he's nearby.

[Deleted]

Nice. Had a ~20% wipe where we then mismanaged stacks and couldn't kill add and people fell over. Good momentum several hours left of the raid and then the GM got internet issues and when we started pulling again we had the same kind of night you had with 70-40% wipes all over. Q.Q

Yeah well it is like that. We had those 10-20% wipes after the first 50-60 pulls, after that another 300 pulls of 40-70% wiping. Really shitty boss.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not viable at all. You can't have He in melee range when he has Noxious poison up. Your raid will die. Speaking from 25man hc PoV as someone who actually tanks He.
I just move him in when he has Instant poison and drag him away when Noxious is up. There's just no other way when your raid has 6+ melee dps. They stay on Rook and Sun whole time (which are nicely stacked, since there's no real danger of having Rook in the middle), only cleaving He when he's nearby.

Yeah, but in 10 man you dont have 6 melee dps which is why it is perfectly viable in 10 man as compared to 25 man when it is not.
I have tanked both He and Rook at the same time and it was no problem.

[Lethora]

Yeah, but in 10 man you dont have 6 melee dps which is why it is perfectly viable in 10 man as compared to 25 man when it is not.
I have tanked both He and Rook at the same time and it was no problem.

I'd love to see logs on that one.

[Deleted]

I'd love to see logs on that one.

Sadly our GM forgot to log that week due to his log file being to big. He didnt start logging until Malkorok that week.

But I do have a 4.5 minute wipe with 1 tank as the other tank died. That was the week before when we realised how easily doable it is.
The reason we wiped was that our healers wanted to try 2 healing Protectors, it almost work but in the end they could not keep the raid up. With the gear we got now they would be able to do it I think

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2011&e=2270

There is that wipe, it is a not exactly a kill with 1 tank, but kinda proves it is easily doable. If we had a third healer as you usually have we would have killed it that wipe.

[Lethora]

Sadly our GM forgot to log that week due to his log file being to big. He didnt start logging until Malkorok that week.

But I do have a 4.5 minute wipe with 1 tank as the other tank died. That was the week before when we realised how easily doable it is.
The reason we wiped was that our healers wanted to try 2 healing Protectors, it almost work but in the end they could not keep the raid up. With the gear we got now they would be able to do it I think.

Well, 3 healing in 10man is about the same as taking 7-8 healers in 25man. We never took more than 6 so far.
Also, you are throwing Mark of Anguish on tanks, that's kinda retarded, given that -90% armor debuff persists for 4 minutes on heroic.