30% Siege of Orgrimmar nerf

[Xtrm]

I'm sure it will happen closer to the expansion. It doesn't seem right doing it so early when players are still trying to progress...

[Baelic]

VP Upgrades and Warforged are designed to make SoO easier over time. Much better system IMO.

[Deleted]

Item progression is nerf enough... the difference between 550ilvl when content started and 575ilvl now is something like 150k DPS which is ~60% HP "nerf" (my DPS went from 250k to 400k). Of course your DPS increased in other Raids too, but not THAT much.
In ToT you had nerfs through the Meta Gem, Cloak and Item Upgrades. This time its just more linear.

[Strykert]

well done.. I can't even find a good group and with this will make it easier

[kamuimac]

Nope isn't needed we've got a minimum of six months before the next expansion (and more likely eight actual), by all means start the nerfs at two months before the next xpac but not now.

minimum of 6 months and maximum of 1-2 month before people will masively unsub due to boredom -_- im curious how will the experiment with no zone buff for end tier ends subs wise -_-

[onemanaleft]

It will probably come with 6.0. That being said I heavily disagree with the logic of item upgrades nerfing the content - this was 100% true in previous MoP tiers, but in this particular tier item upgrades were available straight off the bat.

To give an example, the first recorded kill of Heroic Garrosh happened with a 569~ ilvl***. By comparison, the max ilvl you'll ever be able to get in this patch is around 581, so it's around 10 higher~.

Lei Shen happened with 525 ilvl - the max item level attainable in the previous patch was 551~ (549 without legendary cloak). That's 25 item levels higher. Legendary metagems (followed, later on, by cloaks) also made their appearance after the kill of Lei Shen and is another hidden character power boost.
(Ra-den happened with 531 ilvl, but it's a fight that only died later cause of limited attempts, so w/e.)

and on top of this if you look at 10 man, pargon did lei shen at like 519-521 i believe, about 30 lower than BiS

their garrosh was at 566, which for 10 man would have been BiS without upgrades mroe or less

while bosses 1-10 are undertuned if it weretn for upgrades off the start, the final 4 bosses would have been unkillable for several more weeks. they were tuned with valor upgrades in mind this tier, meaning they arent really a nerf

[Weightlifter]

That is what item upgrades are for.

That might have been their point originally, but now they they are nothing more than a reason to cap valor every week because you are very unlikely to acquire gear faster than you can upgrade.

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But the Wrath pre-patch was the nerf. Whether accidental or not, it pretty much serves as the model of the "let's make sure everyone gets all the content done before the next expansion, even if it means nerfing to oblivion" principle.

We already have LFR for that

[Newfriend]

Probably won't happen until right before the next expansion.

[Deleted]

tbh i would rather they didn't do this, we are still progressing and making slow (but steady) progress up to 7 / 14hc with dark shaman going down tonight

i can see them doing it though with about 1-2 months to go before WOD although i doubt it will be as substantial as 30%. If it happens it will be 20% max imo. We have no confirmed release for WOD as yet so i think they will be letting it ride as is for a few months yet.

[Deleted]

As been said they will nerf after new raid-content is released.

[soulkeeperx]

I'm kinda hoping for one, we're very close to 14/14heroic and wouldn't mind going back to an easy 1 day raid schedule until WoD

[Nebs]

Whether or not item upgrades are can be labeled a "nerf", per se, all depends on how the encounters are tuned. When upgrades were re-introduced in the middle of Throne, I would argue that, in that case, they indeed constituted a nerf. Content became noticeably easier in that first week after 5.3 came out and those that stockpiled 3K VP were able to fully upgrade 6 items immediately. That's because when the raid was released, the tuning was done with 522 and 535 gear in mind.

Unless there is a blizzard post stating the precise method of how tuning was done in SoO, how the encounters were tuned is just conjecture and speculation. I don't think it's implausible that the content was created with 561 and 574 gear in mind. Given that you could fully upgrade an item for just 500VP, I think developers expected players to have upgraded gear in every slot sooner rather than later, and tuned the encounters accordingly. I'm not saying that anything in SoO is tuned for 570+, just with the idea that players would have higher item levels across the board. If that is indeed the case, item upgrades just provide a slightly bigger upgrade over an item you're replacing, and not really a "nerf" like a 10% hp/damage reduction across the board.

[Nanaboostme]

No freaking doubt it will come eventually. its inevitable, they want everyone to experience the raid who are coming in late once the next expansion is almost about to release. Question is how much they think is enough so people will get to experience it all but making it still challenging

[Deleted]

I'm kinda hoping for one, we're very close to 14/14heroic and wouldn't mind going back to an easy 1 day raid schedule until WoD

This, please.

[nekobaka]

That is what item upgrades are for.

That and with Blizzards fuck up in over nerfing DS when they said they wouldnt might have stuck with the developers this time about over nerfing raids when there are multiple difficulty levels including Flex. 30% nerf(buff) ICC was harder than any of the nerfed Cata raids and IMO about the same difficulty of prenerf normal DS while being called such a success despite a minority of those who entered ICC seeing LK and in effect only a minority seeing the content.

I could see a slight 10% nerf in a couple months to try and get LFRs into Flex for the BoA weapons and other rewards in an attempt to squeeze out another month from players. For those that just want to see the content there is LFR.

[Spotnick]

The 30% is already there, it's called Flex. Why would you want normal modes to become exactly the same difficulty as flex when it's already that?

[clevin]

The buff wouldn't be applied to LFR (and probably not Flex) anyways. I see no reason not to start implementing it.

Because Flex IS normal with a 30% nerf. If you nerd normal by 30% you're basically giving people normal gear for running flex. And... if you can't do one difficulty do the next one down.

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No freaking doubt it will come eventually. its inevitable, they want everyone to experience the raid who are coming in late once the next expansion is almost about to release. Question is how much they think is enough so people will get to experience it all but making it still challenging

/headdesk. Do you even PLAY? If you just want to experience things you can a) run LFR b) run Flex. If you can't do Flex now you won't be able to do Normal with a nerf because, well, normal nerfed IS Flex.

Logic. Use it.

[Shuperstar]

I'd hope not. I haven't found a boss yet that's really hard.

[Keoren]

As said, warforged gear and item upgrades already provide a large nerf over time. The extra item levels provide a bigger boost than many realise. If the raid gets nerfed on top of these, I don't see it being as much as by 30%.

[Deleted]

I'd hope not. I haven't found a boss yet that's really hard.

The problem is that many people have found such a problem.
Problem likely are more in 10-man when those 14/14 normal dont have the best setup in order to progress in heroic mode. I mean 1 guild 10-man is doing progress 2 weeks now with 4x melee dps~ Well i dont think that this is quite easy and not having a mage/lock like they ~dont have make the thing's xx harder.
Another thing is the recruitment that right now is make thing's like always was harder.
At the end isn't the difficulty of the raid is more likely that people are doing flex/normal+heroic and flex normal are easy~while heroic you simply must have an ok setup*.

At the end were going to have more and more people quiting meaning less guild's meaning less people that are playing meaning a worse ah in server's...meaning a worse environment for the people.

And progress is what ??40 guild 10-man with 14/14 hc? At the end of expansion were going to have what? 200 guild's?
Because i doubt many guilds will keep up with progress
In 1 month there were a jump of 1.200 guilds within heroic mode with 1hc boss killed.
From those 1.200 guild's that have scored 1 hc kill how many of them will end the expansion wiping at least on garossh heroic? I doubt that is gonna be even 1 or 2 guilds.
Most of them will simply quit half~way.
Is not a part of gear/nerf is simply a skill.
Im seeying already many 10-man guilds quiting right now and many cannot continue with the already progress they made. I mean guild with 5/14 heroic last week did only 2x heroic bosses kills and then simply cleared on Normal. ( So instead of progress and focus on new bosses they would simply become dust to dust ).

My expectation is that we're gonna have a nerf.
Christmas is coming a lot of people are gonna take a break...Point is how many of them are gonna continue? And simply as we know many guild's are gonna fall down due missing people ..not recruitment.