Why Blood Elves will NEVER be neutral, and High Elves will NEVER be alliance.

[Yarathir]

Yes, because man-eating birds (Draenor version), and elementals who like money and clothe themselves with mummy garb is all the more appealing than an Alliance race that has actually been in WoW since Vanilla. e.e

Humanoid birds are indeed more interesting than a race we already have with everything fun about that race taken away, turned into human bootlickers with a different eyecolor.


Ditto for the ethereals. And the ethereals were once humanoid. Dimensius ripped their planet apart with void power, reducing them to beings of naught but pure energy. The bandages keep them in a somewhat humanoid state. If they don't have those, they'll get a sort of "unbound" form, which looks like the specter model.


And the thing for both is that they are pretty much a blank slate with a few scribblings here and there. Those scribblings lay the foundation for them, which currently has a lot of potential. The ethereals can be so much more than "those space mummies". Same for the arakkoa. The truth is that you don't know much about them, and the things we do (the origins of their mummified form) is already pretty interesting. If they elaborate on them, they could be cool characters.


Same for the arakkoa, again. The arakkoa will be explored some more in Warlords of Draenor, where we will see many of them at the Spires of Arak. There is Old God foreshadowing, as well as Anzu and Terokkar laid out there for them. We also know that they had wings at that time, and that they weren't as.. weak and powerless looking as they are now. Warlords of Draenor could really turn the arakkoa into something more than what we know of them.


We can't do that with high elves. The only thing we can do is make their future interesting, starting now. What we know of high elves is essentially what we know of blood elves. They don't have a vastly different history from blood elves. This would be like making Mag'har orcs Alliance and advertising them as a new race. They don't have new looks, are only slightly different from an existing player race (more so than high elves are even), are only slightly different from the orcs we know, and are all-around just an empty addition.


The only difference is that high elves have a lore reason to join the alliance. Otherwise Mag'har orcs are a more viable option than high elves, even.

1. I never said High elves would even be playable.

That's a good thing, because they won't be. At least, not as a new player race, unless everyone at Blizzard simultaneously loses their minds.

2. I have advocated High elves as a sub-race before.

Good, because that it's one of the few acceptable and good ways to do it. If you want that, then, even if I don't like high elves, can support you. Why? Because they would be more options, and more options are just fine. I am against high elves as a new race.

3. There is no conclusive evidence to prove why Blizzard wouldn't make High elves into a full race.

There is:

They don't add anything. No unique aesthetic, no unique mounts, no unique culture, no rich, unique history. They literally are just color-swap blood elves with slightly different thoughts. They are too integrated in human society too, to have a proper culture. Maybe they can regain that, but right now, they're nothing but human bootlickers in a blue-eyed blood elf skin.

4. Do you work for Blizzard?

Do you?

[Faroth]

As cross realm tech improves, I suspect faction balance will become less and less of an issue in all aspects of the game.

[Deleted]

ITT: People hating just because. Your number-slinging and vitriol won't stop people wanting what they want.

[Al Gorefiend]

ITT: People hating just because. Your number-slinging and vitriol won't stop people wanting what they want.

Its not hating just because. Its valid arguments that YOU as a "Staunch Crusader" need to provide a defense to (Tip: "Too bad so sad" isn't a proper defense)

How will High Elves effect population of Alliance races?
How will High Elves effect population of Horde races?
Where will the majority of High Elf players come from in regards to their current main race? Human players? Night Elf Players? Blood Elf players?
What niche do they fulfill other than being a Roleplayer wet dream?
What makes them different from Blood Elves in the eyes of a new player?
Where will they start off at?
What classes would suit them?
What will horde get in return? Red Night Elves? Green Gnomes? purple-eyed Humans?

[Deleted]

EU? I'm talking American Servers.

Yeah, and I am talking EU servers. I gave you the two raiding PvE realms in EU. One is a server 99% horde, the other one 99% alliance. If you roll there (which by default isn't suggested, since they have log in queues) you're going to meet a faction imbalance and this imbalance has been there for many, many years. It won't get solved either.

Now, lets say all these US servers of yours have faction imbalances of say 33% vs 66%. Do we see on a 1:2 horde realm it is impossible to roll horde? No? We don't see that, do we? And that is another reason why your argument is a pile of bullshit.

"If you roll on these servers you know in advance what you're gonna get:" nice assumption there, that a causal/new player even keeps track of server population ratios ... [1]

Why would a new player roll to a full server with log in queues when all other realms don't have log in queues. If I were wanting to play on a high pop realm I'd roll on those high pop ones without a queue.

My point stands. Blizzard isn't going to screw themselves over and worsen the population ratios then get millions of complains on the forums and in "Why did you quit?" feedback boxes, further eroding their sub base.

97% or 98% or 99% is irrelevant; it is close to each other. And nobody really gives a rat on these PvE realms about the faction imbalance cause world PvP doesn't matter. I already told you that twice, and twice you ignore it with your own ramblings.

Which you boldly claim without backing it with even a single reasoned argument as to why you think that is so ...

I backed it up 2 posts back but yeah some people are just on special salts.

[jayinjersey]

They can have High Elves if I can have Ogres...and lots of classes with them too


I want an Ogre Mage, Ogre Warlock, Ogre Warrior, Ogre DK, OGre Monk, Ogre Shaman, Ogre Druid and yes an Ogre Rogue...

[Al Gorefiend]

I really don't know why people are fighting so hard for High Elves to be playable. I look at both factions somewhat as one - I'm not devoted to only one. Adding playable High Elves would just be adding a race we already have. They look no different from the BE model, just that the eyes are blue...that's it.

There are VERY few people who solely want to play them for the lore. People want to play them because they're dedicated Alliance players, and don't want to play on the Horde. They like the BE model and want it for the Alliance. High Elves is their excuse to have them.

Just make a BE and end this stupid thing.....

People don't want to play with the ugly stupid Orcs. They want their sexy BE to play alongside their sexy human and sexy Night Elf and sexy waggle Draenei. It must absolutely kill Blood Elf players when they form a random with nothing but Orcs and Trolls.

[timtim89]

This post makes no sense they would never switch a faction around

[Ralikon]

1 in 4 blood elves? not that many would pay for a faction change bud

[NuLogic]

Does faction balance even matter now? I'm guessing blizzard will eventually do it when they need a selling point for a future expansion.

[Willias]

1 in 4 blood elves? not that many would pay for a faction change bud

All the blood elves had to come from somewhere. Many back in Vanilla swapped sides from Alliance to Horde after Blood Elves (and paladins) were added. It'd be hard to predict how much adding high elves to the Alliance would shake things up.

Where will they start off at?

This is the biggest lore factor in the way of playable high elves imo. That, and there just aren't that many high elves around any more. Most became blood elves.

[Talen]

7% is A LOT. Given how PVE servers have low Horde populations, they can't afford to lose even 1%.

Yes...and I gave figures for an overall population...because individual servers don't really matter anymore. They are nowheer near as importnat or vital becauis eof the various systems which mix servers together.

Which is a large part of the reason this argument is ill-conceived...those making it don't tend to think through what has actually changed.

What a 7% shift WOULD mean, using those figures, is that the population would shift form a slight Horde advantage to a slight Alliance advantage. The figures you claim would be hugely destructive to the game and Horde are figures the Alliance currently survive with.

You would need to perhaps DOUBLE that already huge shift to 15% or more in order to approach population levels which would be destructive to the game. And that assumes no further refinements of server technology which further blends the systems together.

I'm sorry - but the argument related to population ratios simply doesn't work. You cannot compare Vanilla to now - there has been too much change.

EJL

[Gothicshark]

TL;DR:

My Wager:

If Blood Elves become a neutral faction, or high elves become a race of the alliance I will upload pictures of and film myself taking off my socks after a hard day of work, and then eat them.



I was high as an elf on vicodin when I started this thread.[/SIZE]

Well you can toss your pseudo-scientific ideas. World of Warcraft is made by Blizzard a For Profit company, and if they feel it would be the right thing to add Alliance High Elves they will.

Rebuttal Main:As you should know the Player base has wanted 2 specific races in the game since Vanilla, Blizzard is aware of this, to the point of confusion at times.

Horde: Ogres
Alliance: High Elves

These get requested as much as Goblins were, Since Cataclysm Goblin fans have been happy.

So when you look at the number of Goblin Players realize there are as many people requesting Blue Elves and Ogres.


Rebuttal Lore: Now because of the high elf split, the odds are the blue Elves will come in with Alleria Windrunner, which will make things rather interesting.

The prediction is not a Natural High Elf Faction, since the Fel magics made Blood Elves slightly different than the Blue Elves. ie Blood Elves are unique and will stay that way. The Blue Elves which could come in a Legion Based expansion, will be half Human by bloodline. They will be based at an Alliance strong point facing the Burning Legion. They will hate the fallen Blood Elves, since they are traitors, and have willingly taken Fel Magic into themselves.

Rebuttal Faction: They can do this because Horde Elf players enjoy being Horde. If they wanted to play Alliance Elves they could already play Night Elves. In Fact on RP servers a large number of High Elf players roll up Nelf Mages and play them as High Elves.

This will not weaken the horde.

Rebuttal Emotion: Also I should point out something, wishing for something to not happen because it will make someone else happy takes nothing away from you.

[hrugner]

I think they could probably start in a phased quel'danas. It would be a good opportunity to show bloodelves being cleansed and supported by the remaining highelves while working up a plot that keeps them from being the same faction.

[Gothicshark]

I just don't understand why High Elves are such a popular candidate for a new playable race. Even if High Elves had a completely different model from the Blood Elves, they would still be really similar in appearance because they are the same race just with political and minor physical differences. Their lore is interesting but it's mostly the same lore as the Blood Elves'. Adding them as a subrace to Night Elves would be fine, and probable in the future, but their own unique race would just be really boring and uninspired.

It would be nice if High Elves were more involved in the game because they have always been important members of the Alliance lore-wise, and Night Elves being able to be mages opened up doors for High Elves being able to be more involved, but that doesn't mean they have to be a new playable race. Honestly I'd rather see Alliance get Murlocs/Gorlocs over High Elves, at least that would bring something new rather than a third elf race that's nearly identical to one we already have (even if it's on the opposing faction)

"Core to the Story of Warcraft the Alliance High Elves are." - Yoda Voice


For this reason alone they need to be included at some point.

But to address OMG too many elves, your count is off.

Elf Racial lineage.

-Unknown progenitor Race (either Mogu, or Qiraji)
-Trolls
?-Goblins (possibly descended from the Progenitor race or Trolls)
-Night Elves (Possibly descended from Trolls, or congruent evolution from a common ancestor with trolls)
--Highborn Elves (Night Elf Mages)
--- High Elves aka "Sun Elves" (Descended From Highborn)
----Blood Elves (Changed by Drinking in Fel Magic)
----Alliance High Elves (refused to Drink Fel Magic, remained loyal to Humanity, Hates the Horde and their Traitorous brethren)
-----Half Elves (Children of Humans and Elves)

So by my count 3 confirmed Player "Elf" races, 1 unconfirmed "Elf" race, and one "Elf" sub-race as a Player Class.
The horde has 2/3 "Elf" races already, although the Trolls will say "Troll" races. Only Night Elves are on the Alliance. So from a Racial Balance POV the Alliance needs 1 more "Elf"/"Troll" race.

[Traveler Voltin]

"Core to the Story of Warcraft the Alliance High Elves are." - Yoda Voice


For this reason alone they need to be included at some point.

But to address OMG too many elves, your count is off.

Elf Racial lineage.

-Unknown progenitor Race (either Mogu, or Qiraji)
-Trolls
?-Goblins (possibly descended from the Progenitor race or Trolls)
-Night Elves (Possibly descended from Trolls, or congruent evolution from a common ancestor with trolls)
--Highborn Elves (Night Elf Mages)
--- High Elves aka "Sun Elves" (Descended From Highborn)
----Blood Elves (Changed by Drinking in Fel Magic)
----Alliance High Elves (refused to Drink Fel Magic, remained loyal to Humanity, Hates the Horde and their Traitorous brethren)
-----Half Elves (Children of Humans and Elves)

So by my count 3 confirmed Player "Elf" races, 1 unconfirmed "Elf" race, and one "Elf" sub-race as a Player Class.
The horde has 2/3 "Elf" races already, although the Trolls will say "Troll" races. Only Night Elves are on the Alliance. So from a Racial Balance POV the Alliance needs 1 more "Elf"/"Troll" race.

dark trolls>Night elves>high elves
trolls predate titans and their creations

[eodusaf]

Honestly, if the Alliance got high elves, i see no reason the horde couldnt have humans. In most fantasy stories, humans play both sides, lord of the rings being the biggest one, but warhammer is another

[Traveler Voltin]

Honestly, if the Alliance got high elves, i see no reason the horde couldnt have humans. In most fantasy stories, humans play both sides, lord of the rings being the biggest one, but warhammer is another

which humans would side with the horde though?

[hrugner]

"Core to the Story of Warcraft the Alliance High Elves are." - Yoda Voice


For this reason alone they need to be included at some point.

But to address OMG too many elves, your count is off.

Elf Racial lineage.

-Unknown progenitor Race (either Mogu, or Qiraji)
-Trolls
?-Goblins (possibly descended from the Progenitor race or Trolls)
-Night Elves (Possibly descended from Trolls, or congruent evolution from a common ancestor with trolls)
--Highborn Elves (Night Elf Mages)
--- High Elves aka "Sun Elves" (Descended From Highborn)
----Blood Elves (Changed by Drinking in Fel Magic)
----Alliance High Elves (refused to Drink Fel Magic, remained loyal to Humanity, Hates the Horde and their Traitorous brethren)
-----Half Elves (Children of Humans and Elves)

So by my count 3 confirmed Player "Elf" races, 1 unconfirmed "Elf" race, and one "Elf" sub-race as a Player Class.
The horde has 2/3 "Elf" races already, although the Trolls will say "Troll" races. Only Night Elves are on the Alliance. So from a Racial Balance POV the Alliance needs 1 more "Elf"/"Troll" race.

I would welcome Dark Trolls into the alliance. They helped the nightelves back in the day, and they have some hella awesome concept art.

[Potassiumgluconate]

Well you can toss your pseudo-scientific ideas. World of Warcraft is made by Blizzard a For Profit company, and if they feel it would be the right thing to add Alliance High Elves they will.

I don't think pseudo-science means what you think it means.

Yes, they want to make money, and they won't do neutral elves for that very reason. It will imbalance the game and it's not interesting. Unless they can charge $25 for it. :lol:

Rebuttal Main:As you should know the Player base has wanted 2 specific races in the game since Vanilla, Blizzard is aware of this, to the point of confusion at times.

Horde: Ogres
Alliance: High Elves

These get requested as much as Goblins were, Since Cataclysm Goblin fans have been happy.

So when you look at the number of Goblin Players realize there are as many people requesting Blue Elves and Ogres.

Just because players demand something doesn't mean it will happen. They've also been asking for Naga, Arakkoa, and Ethereals for ages. Thank the gods Blizzard hasn't done that.

Rebuttal Lore: Now because of the high elf split, the odds are the blue Elves will come in with Alleria Windrunner, which will make things rather interesting.

Why? What?

The prediction is not a Natural High Elf Faction, since the Fel magics made Blood Elves slightly different than the Blue Elves. ie Blood Elves are unique and will stay that way. The Blue Elves which could come in a Legion Based expansion, will be half Human by bloodline. They will be based at an Alliance strong point facing the Burning Legion. They will hate the fallen Blood Elves, since they are traitors, and have willingly taken Fel Magic into themselves.

You just went full fanfiction on me.

Rebuttal Faction: They can do this because Horde Elf players enjoy being Horde. If they wanted to play Alliance Elves they could already play Night Elves. In Fact on RP servers a large number of High Elf players roll up Nelf Mages and play them as High Elves.

This will not weaken the horde.

Rebuttal Emotion: Also I should point out something, wishing for something to not happen because it will make someone else happy takes nothing away from you.

I literally have no idea what you just said.

"Core to the Story of Warcraft the Alliance High Elves are." - Yoda Voice


For this reason alone they need to be included at some point.

Definitely not. There are more non-faction races with storylines and plots than there are the other way around. High Elf lore is the same as Blood Elf lore. Whenever Blood elves have plot development - there's high elves right there too.

-Unknown progenitor Race (either Mogu, or Qiraji)
-Trolls
?-Goblins (possibly descended from the Progenitor race or Trolls)
-Night Elves (Possibly descended from Trolls, or congruent evolution from a common ancestor with trolls)
--Highborn Elves (Night Elf Mages)
--- High Elves aka "Sun Elves" (Descended From Highborn)
----Blood Elves (Changed by Drinking in Fel Magic)
----Alliance High Elves (refused to Drink Fel Magic, remained loyal to Humanity, Hates the Horde and their Traitorous brethren)
-----Half Elves (Children of Humans and Elves)

No idea where that progenitor race idea is coming from.
Goblins aren't related to trolls or elves. Bronzebeard's theory is they're very distantly related to Pygmies (who are in turn distantly related to Troggs). Kajamite mutated them into their current form.

Trolls became night elves, who split into highborne and blood elves. Highborne split into highborne and high elves. High elves split into blood elves and high elves (Who are not necessarily allied to Humanity so much as they are just allied with Dalaran which is a multiracial nation).

Half Elves are hybrids. Not a race.

So by my count 3 confirmed Player "Elf" races, 1 unconfirmed "Elf" race, and one "Elf" sub-race as a Player Class.
The horde has 2/3 "Elf" races already, although the Trolls will say "Troll" races. Only Night Elves are on the Alliance. So from a Racial Balance POV the Alliance needs 1 more "Elf"/"Troll" race.

2 confirmed player races. 1 unplayed elf race.

You're really really stretching the facts to suit your argument. Which is closer to the actual definition of pseudoscience.