PvP in this game is TERRIBLE - changes I would like to see in WoD

[worstpvperus]

Blizzard put in the base resil to help new players get into PVP.

imho it does nothing to help new players because they can't do enough damage to kill somebody,
and it instead just makes PVE gear superior in a lot of cases.

Umm no newer players can actually live for a semi decent amount time and can cc rather then just get one shot. Its much better then previous expansion but baseline gear would be better.

[Restors]

Is it just me or is this thread about "how can Blizzard improve so a new level 90 can get the decent gears without effort" ?
OP doesn't care to gear up in his so called "timeless isle and gear up super fast" or even pay for the crafted malevolent gears. Just greenies and thinks he should be fully geared in one evening or so. Good lord, some people!

[worstpvperus]

Is it just me or is this thread about "how can Blizzard improve so a new level 90 can get the decent gears without effort" ?
OP doesn't care to gear up in his so called "timeless isle and gear up super fast" or even pay for the crafted malevolent gears. Just greenies and thinks he should be fully geared in one evening or so. Good lord, some people!

I think he wants a pvp catch up mechanic that doesn't involve killing npc or getting cleaved in bgs by players with like 10x his gear.

[NickCageFanatic]

There is a pvp catch up mechanic,

The crafted Malevolent gear is the starter stuff that is mostly crap tbh but WAY better than quest greens.
Timeless isle is another option 497 gear will be slightly better than the Malevolent gear.

It takes time to gear, and at the end of the day PvE geared people go through the same thing. No fresh 90 is topping any meters until they get gear until then they are basically carried through most PvE content.

[Darsithis]

I love how people bring up the crafted PvP gear as an excuse for the shit amount of honor you get in this game. Not every player has a friend with the right profession to set them up with the set, or the gold to spend on it at the AH. Each piece is around 1.5k on my server.

So, no, that's not "whatcha" do.

Make the gold. It's not that hard. Or level up the profession and craft it yourself. Or talk to your guild. There are so many options.

[Blueobelisk]

I agree with the OP. The PVP entry barrier (for gear) is too high.

You know what fresh 90s do in PVE? They quest and do dungeons designed to get them enough get for better dungeons and then even four levels of raid gear. You know what fresh 90s do for PVP? They go and BG against people who PVP for a living (since BG is the only nonserious PVPing they can do as opposed to the many PVE queue systems).

Saying you have to craft gear to get in is a poor design.

[Futon]

What I did on my latest alt was go to timeless isle and farm all 496 gear. Then from there I did BGs and karasang wild rares. Rares is the fastest way, i can't imagine what i would have done without those.

[Sallador]

@OP

From your achievements you barely PvP anyways? Perhaps if you delve into PvP further and actually get some proper gear you wont have so much trouble

PvP isn't in such a bad state at the moment tbh compared with previous expansions.

[Somewowguy]

Well that wasnt the complaint that i was expecting. PvP is in a bad state, but complaining about how hard it is to get gear now? Gearing up has never been easier. Not to mention this is an mmo, and traditionally gearing up/rep/etc is a major part of an mmo. If you need pvp gear, just keep up the random bg/krasarang rare thing (which is the fastest way to get pvp geared). Who cares if you get one shot, you are starting at the bottom....what did you think would happen?

And to the people always freaking out about people crafted pvp items: Yes, they are useful for alts. No they are not expensive or hard to find. Too expensive for you? If you cant mine, watch the AH prices, buy ore, /2 need a smelter, /2 need a BS with current tier pvp items (during peak times).

[Deleted]

Hunter in pvp is extremely frustrating when you're undergeared, becomes much better when you get gear, I promise.

[DingDongKing]

I believe the OP could've easily obtained 496 gear by grinding Timeless Isle on his Main. Not the best choice, but it's something. A good system to support alt leveling in the game would be to have slightly more expensive Honor gear that's BOA. So a 1250HP Ring is 1375HP instead and so on. It's kinda similar to SWTOR's Legacy system, which I personally believe was a really efficient and intuitive way to support leveling alts. Regarding PVP in general, I think the game is quite poorly managed. Sure, for an experience or dedicated player, there is reward. For someone who's just entering the fold, it's more of a learning cliff. I'm not saying it's all bad. I just think a game should manage its tiers of players better.

I recently started playing League of Legends and was quite pleasantly surprised that at every level I climb, my team-mates are at a similar stage. I'm not running into Level 30 players that want to farm others for a quick daily and so on. The matchmaking works. It means that by the time you're ready to play with the big boys, if it's something you truly want to do, you're ready. In games like WoW you queue for a BG and run into premades of fully geared players (or bots) running riot and everything's over in a flash. Sure, your team could win if the situation's the same on your end, but it doesn't encourage learning really. It just encourages farming points for gear, which itself isn't going to be on the same level as those in min-maxed Conquest. Run in, press buttons, hope for the best and see what happens. It's pretty crappy. What would work?

1. Segregate players by item level. With battle groups not being a limiting factor to whom you play, it'd be pretty good for Blizzard to condition their matchmaking to creating teams based on gear level. Sure, you'll have über experienced players running around on alts, but at least they'd be promoting the concept of 'bring the player not the gear'. It would result in less one-shotting and potentially slow the pace of the Battlegrounds way down. Some people might not like the sound of a pace shift, but I'll come to why soon.

2. Recognize players based on HOW they play. What does this mean? Introduce an Honor Initiative similar to League of Legends.

a) Is a solo player knocking it out of the park? The game highlights he's a lone wolf and gives you the opportunity to acknowledge his contribution. The reward could either be additional honor/conquest points, titles or even vanity gear at higher tiers where gear is not the object of a player's desire.

b) A premade does really well in guiding the team to a victory? Reward them with leadership points. Future team mates can trust them to help out given they're a premade.

c) Conversely, if a premade is throwing their weight around and generally being disruptive or a solo player is just going afk and ignoring tactics, have the option to highlight that they could do better. Multiple can do better votes results in a team or player being put lower in the queuing priority system. Works the other way if the results are positive.

The system can be abused, but isn't everything in this game already a victim of such abuse? I haven't seen the Honor Initiative being pissed on in LoL so far and even the report player button goes to a tribunal. Similarly multiple can do better votes get aggregated against positive thumbs up as well. Would need iteration and tweaking.

3. Botting is an issue according to folks. Now I can't really say whether this is true or not, but a simple workaround for this would be to introduce a verification system when entering a Battleground queue. Like captcha. Is the player human? Again, such systems don't always work but Blizzard are smart, right? They can figure something out.

4. Some don't like the fact that groups jump into Battlegrounds and farm PUGs. Introduce a solo queue option. It'll work in tandem with gear tiers where grouped players, whether in twos or threes or fives of players are put into a separate queue. Groups get rewarded, but at random. I know Blizzard are working on a way to reward consistent socializing for Dungeon Finder, so why not for PVP? Ensure that people don't feel forced into grouping, but see it as a quality of life improvement. After all, it's an MMO.

5. I don't know about you guys but I find player progression in Arenas particularly to be very counter intuitive. Ever since Blizzard changed arena ratings to player based, there's almost no chance of finding regular partners as a newish (under 6 months) player. People are very concerned even at 1500 MMR about losing their rating and generally after one bad game, they'll quit and continue doing the same thing until they find that genie in the bottle moment where they hit their Conquest cap easily enough.

I'm not someone who is in favor of 'boosting + free wins = cap yay!' but I do think that there needs to be an unrated Arenas queue. Segregate it in the same way as you would for BGs but introduce an average item level system so that if a 522 player is with a 476 player, they get matched with the appropriate item level. It would require iteration to ensure there isn't a farming tier in terms of ilevel, but at least it's a start. For me I'd really love to play Arenas without the pressure of 'holy shit, I'm gonna lose rating' or 'I hope my team mate doesn't rage quit if things don't go well'. The stress goes out the window and you play for fun and to improve.

I think that this might result in less 'Destro Lock LF2s Cap' Arena teams and actually give people more games under their belt before they start playing in Rated Arenas. Sure, going Rated might result in a faster cap, but then adjust the reward accordingly? Keep an unrated Arena win at 50CP and a Rated Arena win at 100CP. Players who genuinely want 'competitive Arena' play will queue for Rateds. Those who want a casual experience or cap will not feel like they have to play Rated Arenas.

Further to this, I also think that having an unrated Arenas queue would result in new players having way more experience under their belt before going into Rateds. You'd have a more confident player base and one that's quite learned in the different classes before going for gold. I don't know about anyone else, but that fear of being raged at or losing rating or team mate rage quitting looms in Rated nowadays. It's not nice. I don't do Arenas anymore when in actual fact I'd love to be doing them over anything else.

That's the quality of life issues addressed. What about the technical and gameplay issues? Honestly, I don't know. I think the game needs to be slowed down. Right now PVP seems to revolve around forcing Trinkets/CDs, Swifties and long CC chains. Sustained damage isn't really viable unless you're at higher MMRs where teams base their play on the previously mentioned but intelligent pressure damage to allow the right conditions to line up. Most of the games I've been a part of up till 1900MMR last season were blink and its over affairs. Making things a bit more measured would be a nice change, but that's just me. I really don't like the concept of everyone having a red magic button that facilitates huge amounts of damage or healing. I also don't particularly find long ass CC chains where a trinket is just a second's respite particularly appealing. However, I think these issues can be alleviated by simply playing the game more. Effectively 'learning to play'. However, I believe players need to be given the chance to learn and a baptism of fire (the quest for gear parity in Rated Arenas) or a mindless zerg (Random BGs as they are today) isn't the right place to start. Something needs to give to make PVP fun again. Open World PVP? That's another story entirely. Better Battleground Maps? Huttball.

[Deleted]

ppl with zero gear, means full greens from questing can really annoy me somtimes, atleast go buy the pvp gear on AH and stop ruining the BGs for others.

[Deleted]

Your post has nothing to do with PvP but the gearing process, wtf

[Deleted]

Run a few dungeons and get some JP to convert to honor (I know the conversion sucks now), grab a few 522's and then queue up.

How many is "a few"?

[Deleted]

Gearing requires some effort. That has nothing to do with your statement.

[Dristereau]

Why do people still not understand that you can make or buy Crafted PVP Gear? It seems every idiot who levels their Character thinks that there is no entry level gear. 10 Minute ques btw? What Faction? Horde us 4-5 Mins and Alliance is 1 Min. Take them less seriously and they are more fun. Or ask a friend to do arena with you?

Want my honest opinion? Timeless Isle Gear shouldn't exist, and neither should Base Resilience, which should be on Gear. PVP has a Catch Up System. Check your Conquest Cap. 15,200 for me, which is great compared to Wrath and Cataclysm. Gear isn't hard to get started in BGs, especially when World Bosses drop half of it as well.

Try playing an Elemental Shaman in Random BGs. Out of all the Character's I've leveled the most frustrating/useless thing I've ever seen even with some Gear. Hunter isn't too bad to play.

[DingDongKing]

Your post has nothing to do with PvP but the gearing process, wtf

Isn't that what the OP is complaining about? He's not upset about gameplay issues at their very core. It's more a quality of life issue on his end. Also, you'll find I've looked at gearing, appropriate matchmaking, quality rewards for quality play and also a better Arenas system that actually provides players with a more accessible way to achieve their Conquest cap and also get better at PVP in Arenas before starting the quest for rating.

[Rucati]

(because bg is more serious PvP than arena)

Alright then, clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

As for your suggestions, no. Honor gear being 200-300 honor would be idiotic, honor farming is already faceroll easy. Can farm an entire set of honor gear in less than 10 hours, easy.

There's no reason for BGs/RBGs to give a significant amount of Conquest. They aren't challenging, they aren't a show of skill, they're just grinded into oblivion.

And there's no reason that world PvP should have its own reward. World PvP is just a numbers game, 10 of the best players in the world would still lose to 20 random people in equal gear, and world PvP will never be balanced.

[Deleted]

wall of text

1. You can't make separate bgs for people with good gear and people with bad gear. The good bgs will have insane queues and the shit bgs will have very short queues, thus the situation will continue to upset people and won't really solve anything.
a) pvp in this game is a team effort. In rbgs, a player going "lone wolf" isn't helping anything. Also, "lone-wolfing" shouldn't be encouraged, otherwise you get a lot of "coolkids" going rambo and getting smashed while the opponent owns everything because it doesn't divide its forces.
b) and c) are impossible to asess by a computer system.

4. (what happened to 3?) Ultimately useless. Someone could just be near the computer for 1 min till the bg begins and will input the correct capcha and then go fap while the game plays with his bot.

6. Plenty of people do arenas just for cap (provided you're not on a dead server). Failing to find someone in the trade chat, you can always download and use oqueue (which will be implemented by Blizzard soon, it's only logical). If you're any good at that, your rating will go up whether you like or not and then maybe you can find a partner for serious arena for rating.

[Alphamage]

PVE gear in PVP environment(arena or bg) worths shit and whoever claims it is viable is wrong and knows nothing about PVP. Of course going into a Bg or arena with 553 level PVE gear(scales down of course as you enter the Bg) is much better than entering with PvE green gear but both will not help you at all.
For example, I PvP a lot on my Priest as Disc, I have full Grievous gear and in random Bgs I am overpowered against PvE geared dps. Really, most of the times they can't even break my shield.
PvP power is the most important stat in PvP environment. With 0 PvP power, your heals or your dps is crap. Seriously crap. My Mage is 567 item level PvE geared. I tried to do some Bgs to get me some Honor and I was shocked when my Pyroblasts was criting for 38K. Fireball was hitting for 10K, Scorch for 6K..... seriously guys. With 0 PvP power you may survive for like 10 seconds more if you have good PvE gear but you are useless in PvP.
You want PvP gear fast without getting ganged in Bgs? Do a lot of PvE, scenarios, Hc scenarios, Random Hcs and trade Justice for Honor. Then go buy the Tyranical gear and you are good to go.