Banks = fraud

[Kreeshak]

If the article below is correct, read how corrupt politicians make political decisions that rob the nations(in this particular case the Greek nation).
Now it is Greece. If it is not happening in your country, you could be next.
One of the reasons I am posting this is to destroy the "myth" of the evil tax evasor, lazy, whatever Greek citizen who deserves all this austerity that leads to poverty.

The article claims that Banks are businesses, that at the same time are connected to the each countries economy.
As if the edge between interests from loans in - loans out, bank model in the 80's, wasn't profitable, modern banks invested high risk virtual investments. For example someone might invest his money to "is it going to rain in Egypt" or to "is Greek economy going to fail". But that has nothing to do with the real economy and the social benefits of capitalism and is simply gambling.

However banks, businesses or not, are still connected to the economy, so we do need them to be stable. Their questionable gambling products might give them more profits, but when they fail like Lehman Brothers which was the start of the domino, the state has to step in to ensure stability. It is hypocritical that banks are supposed to serve a capitalistic anti state financial model, but have to rely on the state to fund them on their losses, while the state gains nothing on their profits.

So eventually after the Lehman Brothers fiasco, the Greek banks lost their liquidity, because they too used the high risk gambling investment products (amongst other fraud methods which I can get to if anyone is not bored yet) , and had to resort to state funding to continue operating. The Greek state had to loan money with high interest to fund the banks. Guess who has to pay the loan? However the same bankers that failed in their gambling products (or commited fraud) continued to control the -businesses- banks. The article explain common morally doubtful, questionable, borderline legal practises that politicians turn legal with recent law votes in the congress that free bankers from charges.

link the to full article in greek: http://www.koutipandoras.gr/article/...-me-apla-logia

I don't know how accurate google translate can be (I guess not very). But in case anyone is interested I will provide the fraud methods and cases in a future post.

To conclude, nations are paying the fraud and/or borderline legal and/or highly immoral by any standard actions of a select "few".

[axhed]

yeeeep. ukraine is next.

[Xeones]

It's called dividends right? Or direvitives?

Yea I remember hearing about it, and then the banks here taking US tax payer dollars to give themselves bonuses to keep "talent" (yea thats what they said). I wanted them all thrown in general population prison for what they did. But of course that isn't going to happen, it's government for the rich not by the people. It's the same everywhere, whether that be Greece or the US.

[Reeve]

The article claims that Banks are businesses, that at the same time are connected to the each countries economy.
As if the edge between interests from loans in - loans out, bank model in the 80's, wasn't profitable, modern banks invested high risk virtual investments. For example someone might invest his money to "is it going to rain in Egypt" or to "is Greek economy going to fail". But that has nothing to do with the real economy and the social benefits of capitalism and is simply gambling.

I just want to comment on this paragraph. Investing on "is it going to rain in Egypt" absolutely has to do with the real economy, because it allows businesses to de-risk their operations.

[Hraklea]

But that has nothing to do with the real economy and the social benefits of capitalism and is simply gambling.

I'm afraid you don't know what "real economy" actually means.

[ringpriest]

I just want to comment on this paragraph. Investing on "is it going to rain in Egypt" absolutely has to do with the real economy, because it allows businesses to de-risk their operations.

But for sound reasons such investing was regulated for decades, generally to avoid things like bizarre positive-feedback loops and pure rent-extraction. Such regulations have been quietly trimmed away in the United States, leading to, well, unproductive rent extraction and dangerous speculation.

[Mormolyce]

Is this article from 2008 or something?

I just want to comment on this paragraph. Investing on "is it going to rain in Egypt" absolutely has to do with the real economy, because it allows businesses to de-risk their operations.

Not if you're a third party in no way connected to Egyptian agricultural concerns.

The OP is gibberish but it's true that leading up to the GFC there was an explosion in credit swaps, which are essentially like buying insurance on OTHER PEOPLE'S stuff. Only it's a "swap" rather than traditional interest and therefore not regulated. So basically yes, you can bet on things you have nothing to do with, eg whether or not a bundle of mortgages will default. A bundle of mortgages that you don't own. Was one of the contributing factors to the GFC.

[Arlon]

Yeah, old news buddy.

"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." -Napoleon

I never post quotes, but this crap has been going on for centuries. The only surprising part is that our "modern"() educated populations are still on the same level of stupid for allowing this to happen.

Edit: By ,"this crap", im not just talking about derivatives or other ways of dealing with speculative equity but the overall tendency of private financial institutions to screw everything over.

[Mormolyce]

It's called dividends right? Or direvitives?

Yea I remember hearing about it, and then the banks here taking US tax payer dollars to give themselves bonuses to keep "talent" (yea thats what they said). I wanted them all thrown in general population prison for what they did. But of course that isn't going to happen, it's government for the rich not by the people. It's the same everywhere, whether that be Greece or the US.

I'm not an expert on this stuff but I think a derivative is like a second level above a stock. Like a future is a kind of derivative? So like, traditional stocks would be like buying wheat or iron or whatever, whereas a derivative is derived from an actual stock, for example a future would be buying the right to buy the wheat or iron later - effectively betting that the stock will go up in the future. Swaps are another kind of derivative, where you get money if some loan defaults - it's like taking out insurance on a loan but you aren't the person who owns the loan. So it's betting really.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Any sane country would all but the most honest bankers for life. You fuck with people's money and send the country into economic collapse? You get put away.

Unfortunately what the US did was reward these guys with a bail out.

[mmokri]

You use generalization. I doubt that EVERY bank uses high-risk methods.

[Vizardlorde]

how about we organize an economic collapse by convincing people to withdraw all their funds on a specific date ^-^

[mmokri]

Also greeks... They pay because of European Union related problems.

[Arlon]

You use generalization. I doubt that EVERY bank uses high-risk methods.

That is true. But, to call this a high-risk method is an understatement. It does not take a genius to figure out that selling/buying bonds of people who can´t afford the loans, is not so much of a high-risk method, but a calculated short term gain that will(100%) lead to a big-ass meltdown as soon as someone gets the wind of it.

[ringpriest]

Any sane country would all but the most honest bankers for life. You fuck with people's money and send the country into economic collapse? You get put away.

Unfortunately what the US did was reward these guys with a bail out.

The U.S. (among its many other problems) is suffering under regulatory capture including in the financial industry.

[Kreeshak]

I'm afraid you don't know what "real economy" actually means.

That is true. I don't.

However is the assertion, that I have 60% unemployment rate in young adults, my social system that the previous generation has payed through taxes destroyed because a very very minor group of people more or less "gambled" and lost and got away with it, wrong?

[Deleted]

Nice to see an article based on facts and a good understanding of the financial system, oh wait...
On a serious note though the problems in greece have very little to do with them bailing out there banks, its mainly due to them running massive deficits for years thats helping to cause there issues now, if anything the banks actualy helped greece to lie about its deficits, and when it came to light that the deficts where far higher than reported it caused a crisis. and if your talking about the 2008 reccession, in Greece it was mainly the sharp decline in the shipping and tourism industry's that contributed to the financial crises in Greece.

[Deleted]

Goldman-Sachs and their like are pretty much the definition of evil cooporations. Funneling billions to tax shelters with the current financial crisis as a result.

[Authary]

I'm so happy to finally learn that greeks aren't lazy. The last 5 times I had to pay an albanian to rectify some greek's awful work in my house almost made me thought they were all like that. Now I know I'm just unlucky !

On topic : So what ? Banks are businesses. YOU are giving them your money. Keep it under your mattress, nothing's stopping you. If everybody does the same, banks will collapse, the Economy will stabilize and everything will be Just and Right.

[Deleted]

Hey! Bankers are hardworking people! Do you have any idea how difficult it is to rob entire countries of their wealth?