Fel Flame should not be removed!

[ComputerNerd]

I'm not sure if I can find the quote, but one of them (I think Celestalon) said that Scorch is still in because it allows fire to fish for crit procs and keep their rotation rolling. Destruction and Demo need Fel Flame to be able to keep their rotations going as well..

That is just a smokescreen trying to change the subject.
The very reason they stated for us not having fel flame was about "movement dps".
We did not bring up the rotation, they did, and therefore does nothing to address the original point.

[DarkArchon]

This is the issue you're completely missing. You will want to be able to move to some extent or other, and losing Fel Flame makes AD and MF much less attractive options. Fel Flame is necessary to balance that entire talent tree row.

Now I'm just going to put this here...

Improved Scorch - After casting Scorch, your movement speed is increased by 30% for 3 sec.

That's a talent tree issue and should have nothing to do with fel flame. MF has always been shit and even after the buff well...it's still rather shit. It needs to be properly looked at and balanced, not fel flame balancing it. Thats not a correct solution and hardly balances it.

[PickleballAce]

This is the issue you're completely missing. You will want to be able to move to some extent or other, and losing Fel Flame makes AD and MF much less attractive options. Fel Flame is necessary to balance that entire talent tree row.

Now I'm just going to put this here...

Improved Scorch - After casting Scorch, your movement speed is increased by 30% for 3 sec.

Yeah, but that's a Mage perk. They are without limits here. The rules of our cherished reality do not apply. In this realm, they are in control.

[Restors]

It boggles my mind that there are warlocks that don't use Soulshatter or Fel Flame.

I question their knowledge of the class.

Well to be honest, last time I used "Soulshatter" were back in WotLK during Lady Deathwhisper HC in ICC. Ever since Cataclysm, threat weren't anything you would worry about anymore. Haven't used OMEN Threat meter for years

But fel flame on the other hand... I was so happy when they introduced it back in Cataclysm. Before that, the only instant spell we had were either: Redot / Use death coil (2 min cd for small heals and a bit dmg done and most boss were immune to the fear effect), and also if Nightfall procced for affliction for instant shadow bolt.

Fel flame were needed in very small cases, like hit 'n run (or PVP to nuke down shaman totems). Feels kind of wierd to remove it tbh

[Grizelda]

With the removal of DoT snapshotting, Fel Flame should also refresh Immolate again.

[Killem]

With the removal of DoT snapshotting, Fel Flame should also refresh Immolate again.

Don't just limit it to Destro and include Corruption and UA once again.
It was a spell that added some tactical decision to my playstyle, when it was able to extend dots for a little time.

Remind them of the original purpose of this spell and why it was changed to a simple nuke. (Counterintuive gameplay because of snapshotting.)
For PvP this spell had so many uses and you will be locked down completely, if it gets removed.
For PvE this spell has still too many uses, I simply cannot imagine to play Demo and Destro without it.

But it is Blizzard's game, let them do what they want. (With those changes, Elder Scrolls looks more appealing to me.)

[Jessicka]

That's a talent tree issue and should have nothing to do with fel flame. MF has always been shit and even after the buff well...it's still rather shit. It needs to be properly looked at and balanced, not fel flame balancing it. Thats not a correct solution and hardly balances it.

The talents were designed with Fel Flame's existence in mind. Does it really make sense to remove a spell then rework a whole row of talents? I'd be fine with that, but realistically, it just makes more sense to keep the spell.

[Super Kami Dende]

Locks having to stand still to build nukes?

sounds good to me.

[Nerraw]

You must have not raided during TBC where Soulshatter was crucial for locks that were topping the dps meters!

I had to use it at least once per fight in Wrath as well, and that was with waiting 5 seconds after the tank started hitting things.

- - - Updated - - -

Locks having to stand still to build nukes?

sounds good to me.

You must not PvP then. Warriors eat us as it is, and with these and the warrior changes, it'll be even worse.

[Super Kami Dende]

You must not PvP then. Warriors eat us as it is, and with these and the warrior changes, it'll be even worse.

Oh, one class can beat you? Let me just get you a tissue.

[Deleted]

That's a talent tree issue and should have nothing to do with fel flame. MF has always been shit and even after the buff well...it's still rather shit. It needs to be properly looked at and balanced, not fel flame balancing it. Thats not a correct solution and hardly balances it.

In addition to your tendency to pat yourself on the back a bit too much, you also still keep missing the point. Even if the lvl 90 talent tier gets reworked so that the incentive to use FF as part of the rotation disappears completely, removing it is still a reasonable QoL concern. It's not just about totems, it's not just about casting in pvp (which will still suck with all the gap closers and kicks which haven't really been pruned much).

It's about not having an instant direct damage spell as affliction, for example. Consider non-dottable hostile items (Galakras encounter says hi), MC mechanics (Hellscream says hi), spell reflect mechanics, school lockouts, mechanics which force you to hit something once in a while (Horridon says hi). Consider achievements, tactics, quests that require you to *damage* but not *kill* some target. Consider simple convenience shortcuts, e.g. with Seed of Corruption, which is the only reliable aoe I get as affli - I might, at times, decide to detonate a seed faster by pinging a seeded target with FF. Then consider tagging mobs in open world pvE, e.g. questing (yes, something like that exists too) - w/o a viable instant as affli you'd never tag anything in a crowded zone, because dots need to tick to tag anything. Then consider old content, many levels below you. Instead of casting FF to one-shot something, now you'd have to put corr on it and wait. Same with pruning critters to fish for a rare or w/e.

It might of course all seem trivial to a "top tier Warlock" (lol) such as yourself, but all of these little things certainly tend to do add up when playing the game long enough in all the different ways different people actually play. Hence the "quality of life" term. Really, that Arganis fellow, apart from raging a bit too much, was actually spot on - there's much more to the game than optimal dps rotation. If you'd have played a warlock AS MAIN for years, as you seem to suggest, you'd understand, but alas, you're too busy talking out of your ass and, of course, topping dps meters nobody but you has seen ;]

[Jessicka]

Just a quick note that dots will tag without needing to tick, and have done since very late in TBC. Everything else is spot on though. Remember they removed Searing Pain that gave us all that functionality because Fel Flame superseded it.

[Nerraw]

Oh, one class can beat you? Let me just get you a tissue.

PvP for a while and then come back.

[Bonkura]

It's gonna be nice to play against Shamans.

[Zathrendar]

Perhaps they'll do some more pruning of the interrupts and gap-closers, who knows. In their current iteration, it's just stupid.

Fel flame is really the last spell I'd expect to see on the chopping board, irrespective of whether KJC stays in or not.

[Deleted]

Just a quick note that dots will tag without needing to tick, and have done since very late in TBC.

Huh, I was convinced they still do need to tick - because I sometimes notice I put my dots on something, it aggros and starts to run at me only to turn grey a short moment later because someone hit it with some direct-damage... thing. Oh well, maybe it's lag, or perhaps when a mob is hit by 2 players almost instantaneously, some other mechanic is at play (more damage -> tag?) ;]

[brutallord]

My idea:
New KJC - Increases the damage dealt by Fel Flame by X% and:
1. Extends Corruption and UA for affliction
2. Gives more demonic fury for demonology
3. Removes mana cost for destruction

Or maybe simple glyph that teach a warlock the spell, I don't know... just love fel flame, been using since they introduced it.

[Deleted]

My idea:
New KJC - Increases the damage dealt by Fel Flame by X% and:
1. Extends Corruption and UA for affliction
2. Gives more demonic fury for demonology
3. Removes mana cost for destruction

Or maybe simple glyph that teach a warlock the spell, I don't know... just love fel flame, been using since they introduced it.

Not bad, except refreshing dots is kinda meh for Affli. Well, right now it'd be actively deleterious for obvious reasons, but even with snapshotting gone it seems really underwhelming. If you give it a chance to proc Nightfall, however...

[Dnusha]

Myabe it will make a return as glyph.

[Deleted]

I've played a Warlock for years and almost never would use Fel Flame....Very situational and see's very little use. Same with Soulshatter why it's getting removed also.

Fel Flame is NOT a situational spell, so much so that I have it bound to "1".

Fel flame is the only way for affliction to have some sort of instant damage, as it has been said before it's the ONLY way to kill a totem unless you waste a haunt on it and it's the ONLY source of damage on the move if you don't have KJC.

For destruction fel flame can be incredibly useful to generate embers, say you have a mob at 25% and you know that you will kill it with an incinerate, what do you do? Easy: fel flame it to below 20% and shadowburn it to get embers back.
Say you have massive trinket procs expirig in 1 second and you are sitting on 0.9 embers, what do you do? Easy: fel flame and shadowburn before the procs run out.

There are so many uses for fel flame I really hope it doesn't go away.