How is ret right now in pvp?

[Anium]

Wat is ret?

No but srs, rets have no place in rbgs, they bring nothing other classes don't already and without trollcds not much affect.
Loads of rets in arena, so you got that going for you...

[Bitethe]

still better in arena than last season

[ataraxia123]

Shit in BG&RBG, not that bad in Arenas, but other hybrids are better

[Deleted]

The exact same thing was said about warriors in 4.3 and 5.2, almost word for word.

The sad truth is, it's true for rets. You have to work and rely on your teammates so much more compared to most other specs.

[nyc81991]

Ret is the worst melee dps in 2's at the moment. Low survivability and low damage outside of cd's.

[Gigana]

The exact same thing was said about warriors in 4.3 and 5.2, almost word for word.

Even in 4.3 prot warriors were perfectly good flag carriers. They had their role.

Ret was never ever good in RBG, and it never will be unless it gets unique utility or some sort of sustained damage buff.

[Blithe]

Of melee:

Warrior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rogue = DK > Windwalker > Feral > Enhance = Ret

But the gap isn't that great between Ferals, Enhance & Ret.

NB: Representation also enforces this order.

Also to note, we are currently in a heavily caster dominated season (with the exception of Warriors being pants-on-head at the moment).

Windwalker should be = Rogue and Death Knight, not worse than it. And Warrior isn't *that* far ahead.

It's more like:

Warrior >>>>>>>>>> Rogue = Windwalker = DK >>>>> Feral >>> Enhance = Retribution

Enhancement and Retribution seem to suffer from more of the 'hybrid' tax than the Feral or Windwalker do by having less survivability and mobility, even if they bring more utility to the table.

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Ret is the worst melee dps in 2's at the moment. Low survivability and low damage outside of cd's.

Sure it's the worst, but not by far in this bracket. A good player can definitely make Retribution work in 2's. It's in 3's that it's much more noticeable that the specialization starts to slack.

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Shouldn't be discussed in vacuum. Every type of structured PvP has considerable differences.

Since OP is mentioning RBGs, my list for RBGs would be:
Tier 1 (mandatory): DK (nothing changed since Cata)
Tier 2 (desirable): Warrior, rogue, feral (if running Bear main spec)
Tier 3 (useful, but rarely seen): Windwalker, Enhance
Tier 4 (avoided): Ret

An attempt at overall PvP performance:
Warrior > Feral = Rogue = DK = Windwalker > Enhance >>> Ret

Also what Zondorf said, hunter can be considered melee for all intents and purposes. In that case hunter beats all.

With that being said, do not underestimate the potential that a melee cleave rated group can do.

[Demsi]

It can be done in 2`s and 3`s, But takes way more effort than other specs, also ret works with few comps.

[Deleted]

With that being said, do not underestimate the potential that a melee cleave rated group can do.

Yes I've witnessed it on my own skin the other day (hpally, 2k mmr). Nasty.

[Deleted]

No offence, but s1-5 glad are not representing any form of skill. Are you still playing on Glad lvl? (2500 +/-)

You see enough ppl with arenamaster/glad title from back then, and now they are stuggeling @1800

last time i played serious arena (=3v3 in ) i went 58-2, ended at 2766 rating, did it just to check if i still could ( edit: of course i did it with glad level teammates..)
i agree with you though, one glad title in s1-6 is not representing of any skill. 8 glad titles on 3 different classes or rank 1 on the other hand IMO are.

in S10 i solo capped pretty much every week in 2v2, could do it easily at around 1700 mmr. cant say i can do it anymore, not at that MMR at least. the general skill level of top pvp players has gone up, and a lot i dare say.. while the difference between scrubs and capable players is higher than ever..
you need to play bloody much to stay at glad level which i no longer can. im lucky if i can spend enough time online to cap valor and CP every week

[Deleted]

Pretty much what the title says, I recently came back after a long break (cata), previous high warlord in cata for 2 seasons and am looking to get back into pvp before wod hits even though pvp will change id still like to play.

anyways, how good is ret right now compared to other classes, if you made a list where would ret be.

thanks.

Ret is in a bad place, Due to the following:
RBGs only have 10 spots.
Melee are severely handicaped in RBGs (and other forms of pvp)
Literally everything a Ret brings Holy brings.

Which is bad due to A, format is unlikely to change.
B, maybe the shift to casts will improve the situation but i doubt it, unless they stick a 20% DM reduc on all range, its not going to matter.
C, it will be literally impossible to buff ret as there aren't any knobs to turn, we don't have any own utility and they cant tweak DM without PvE implications, so unless they nerf Holy to the ground, there wont be any buffs.
TL;DR, if you enjoy being balanced as if you were holy but not being as powerfull, go ahead, if not play basically literally Anything else.

[Demsi]

If you`re doing 2`s be prepared for some frustration, it is mostly about getting a kill in the 18sec period when your burst is up, timing is important, usually after someone has popped a major defensive cd. If you are going with another dps you or your mate should first force the other team to pop their defensives, then go for the kill, but you should be careful since it is common to force bubble on a ret on the opener, after that you`re a freekill. With a healer you just need to wait for the other team to make a mistake and then blow your Cd`s



TL;DR: Rets are very cd reliant when doing dmg, poor defensives, usually a freekill, having a teammate with good control and cc is usually the way to go.

[Blithe]

Yes I've witnessed it on my own skin the other day (hpally, 2k mmr). Nasty.

The last time I played against one was in 5.1 (or 5.2 can't remember too much). I was on my Restoration Shaman (healer most susceptible to melee) and I've never died so fast in rated play, ever. When there was a switch, something was going to die no matter what you did. We still won though (because of map control), but it was deadly and scary at the same time. If you ever 'meet' them, you know which team is going to die. :P

There was a retribution or two in that composition, I don't remember how much it/they actually contributed (if at all) in that game though.

Also: a shout out to all the Retribution Paladin's who are actually playing through arena at the moment despite the specialization being so weak in comparison to others. That's deserving of a lot of respect.

[Lolretadin]

Ret is currently the worst spec in PvP, at least compared to all other melee.
- Worst self-healing out of any dps class.
- Only 2 defensive CDs, as Devotion Aura is utility.
- Incredibly weak sustained.
- No gap closer.

Ret's only upside is its group utility which is all brought by the other specs for Paladin.
The off-healing is also nice but is not powerful enough to make Ret a viable off-healer, both heals also have ramp up times to be useful and both costs Ret damage to use (more so in the case of Word of Glory).

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Warrior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rogue = DK > Windwalker > Feral > Enhance > Ret

Shaman burst is much higher than Ret atm.

[Deleted]

Ret is only good for random BGs and 1v1. Can be the best 1v1/dueling spec, as you can use LoH :P

[tss]

Ret is only good for random BGs and 1v1. Can be the best 1v1/dueling spec, as you can use LoH :P

LOH is nerfed by 50% in PVP.

If they spread out our damage over 2 minutes more evenly, we might have a fighting chance... but we're so simple as-is that we'd lose any quantifiable burst. I love Ret but we're fucked. We'll get better in WoD via pure damage but we'll still be as boring as a white dog turd.

[Lolretadin]

LOH is nerfed by 50% in PVP.

If they spread out our damage over 2 minutes more evenly, we might have a fighting chance... but we're so simple as-is that we'd lose any quantifiable burst. I love Ret but we're fucked. We'll get better in WoD via pure damage but we'll still be as boring as a white dog turd.

Let's say LoH heals for 500k.
500k
In 5.4.7 Battle Fatigue increased to 60%, so LoH only heals for 40% of the actual amount.
200k
In most cases you will have a healing debuff on you, like Mortal Strike, reducing the healing by another 20%.
160k

LoH is not even worth the CD anymore...

[DiscoGhost]

i agree with everyone here. currently least viable melee class.

[Ravenyx]

Let me be totally honest and blunt. Ret isn't the worst melee spec in the game right now.

Its the worst spec OF ALL. Damage is predictable and easily peeled, cooldowns are easy to force, CC shares DR with other common CC's, defensive ability virtually non existent, difficult mobility, bizarre play style that is quasi melee/caster hybrid.

[Rorke]

Dk's are the least viable melee class. Retribution is a spec and its impossible to balance. Keep it a duel/random bg hero spec. I am getting sick of all of these fucking Ret threads.

Let's say LoH heals for 500k.
500k
In 5.4.7 Battle Fatigue increased to 60%, so LoH only heals for 40% of the actual amount.
200k
In most cases you will have a healing debuff on you, like Mortal Strike, reducing the healing by another 20%.
160k

LoH is not even worth the CD anymore...

Yeah and just imagine if Battle fatigue didn't exist how powerful Retribution paladins or any melee hybrid is. You can fix Ret. You either buff its damage and give the "fuck you" to Rogues, DK's and Warriors or you ignore it and leave the melee role for pure melee classes.

Not to mention, buffing Ret just promotes fucking triple dps and melee cleaves. Nobody wants that shit. If there was only one thing wrong with my favorite season (season 11) it was the fact that Ret was viable and shit like Ret/Ret/DK, Ret/Hunter/Rogue existed. Keeping Retribution bad is good for balance and keeps the skilled classes like wizards in power.