[WoD Warlock] Healthstones are inferior health potions

[Phoenexis]

I never liked Gateway to be honest. It feels like one of those abilities that are impossible to balance and come with lots of issues because of their clunkiness. Either it's too good and mandatory, either it's trash and over-looked. And from a PvP point of view, supposedly we should be balanced around "not" using them from what I've heard? By the looks of our current mobility, I doubt it's the case. And even in PvP games that thing was broken. People being able to completely get out of combat with it... You were either screw people over if you had it up, or getting screwed over if you hadn't.

[Novx]

I think Gateways are good where they work, but easily over-stated, because they do effectively *break* a couple of encounters a tier and that makes them very conspicuous when they do that - not least because they are very visible, tangible doodads as well.

This. There are 2 encounters that I consider Gateway to be truly useful on: Siegecrafter and Thok. It can be argued about Garrosh but that is for 2-3 people for the first 30 seconds of the fight and they use it once so I would hardly consider it to be a necessity. Of those 2 encounters it despawns 90% of the time on Thok because of the range bullshit and you can never make any use of it. I like Gateway but it has been so inconsistent and buggy throughout the entire expansion that it makes me dislike it as our primary raid utility.

[Deleted]

They used to be a lot better in ToT however.

You could effectively break certain mechanics on the doggy-boss and lei shen and got significant benefits for your raid on megaera and ji'kun. That's 1/3 of the bosses and especially lei shen heroic was a tough guy. Depending on your strat it could even help a lot with matter swaps on Dark Animus heroic.
The fact that it was always likely to just despawn made having more locks in your raid even more desirable.

I guess ToT was where it got its reputation from.. in Siege of Orgrimmar it wasn't that much of a deal anymore.

[Hellfury]

They used to be a lot better in ToT however.

You could effectively break certain mechanics on the doggy-boss and lei shen and got significant benefits for your raid on megaera and ji'kun. That's 1/3 of the bosses and especially lei shen heroic was a tough guy. Depending on your strat it could even help a lot with matter swaps on Dark Animus heroic.
The fact that it was always likely to just despawn made having more locks in your raid even more desirable.

I guess ToT was where it got its reputation from.. in Siege of Orgrimmar it wasn't that much of a deal anymore.

in Siege they "balanced" it by adding all the despawn bugs

[Novx]

in Siege they "balanced" it by adding all the despawn bugs

Well the despawn bugs were actually there in ToT and then they fixed them. I can only imagine they realized the errors of their ways in fixing a mechanic and swiftly broke it again before too many people noticed.

[Deleted]

I thought gateways were already nerfed on live
They always disappear for me on immerses & thok.
But yes it must have been clear from the drawing board that they would be either OP or useless.

I liked the 3-charge HS a lot it was a good raid cd and healers could strategize their uses.
I love raid cds I think they add depth to a role, such as a paladin of yore sacrificing dps talent points to get aura mastery if it was the best compromise for the raid, , but evidently Blizzard disagrees.

A single charge with the same percentage health value as tonics would have been the best option.
As it is both will be irrelevant before the end of WoD.
HS won't even be used by warlock.
,
btw are tonics bound or can they be sold? if the latter, the people that didn't care for first aid before won't care more in WoD.

[Deleted]

Honestly with us getting screwed over so hard I don't see a reason to bring a warlock to a raidgroup anymore, unless there are fights where demo&cataclysm is basicly required to burst some adds, which kind of seems to be the case on some fights, but im sure other classes can do the same damage anyways, and with added utility.

Hunters with Aspect of the Fox, Mages with extra healing and whatever the others can bring. I just feel so BLARGh about all of the warlock changes recently. Especially this being the last straw, 68k heal in comparison to our 50k? All that does is makes potions MANDATORY for Mythic raiding, that is literally it.

I feel like gutted because of snapshotting mechanics are retardedly strong, aswell as trinkets and scaling is out of whack. its pretty laughable how they balance the game nowadays.

Also, COULD THEY INCREASE THE RANGE OF THE F*****G ONLY "RAID UTILITY" WE HAVE SO IT DOES NOT DE-SPAWN ON THOK IF YOU GET CHASED, OR ON SIEGECRAFTER, THANKS. /doneventing.

[Novx]

Also, COULD THEY INCREASE THE RANGE OF THE FUCKING ONLY "RAID UTILITY" WE HAVE SO IT DOES NOT DE-SPAWN ON THOK IF YOU GET CHASED, OR ON SIEGECRAFTER, THANKS. /doneventing.

We don't have the despawn issue with gateway anymore on beta....but the gateway has a fucking 20yard max range. It's just stupid as fuck how they have nerfed all our raid cooldowns rather than nerfing some. I feel like they aren't even paying attention to how warlocks are doing on beta but are instead looking at live and just stacking unnecessary nerfs due to how strong we are currently.

[Baconeggcheese]

What's funny is they fixed the range issue with gateway during this xpac and then for no apparent reason added it back in and never re-fixed it.

I never understood that.

[PickleballAce]

I just find their handwringing over Gateway -- because it is really good on a couple of fights in a tier -- to be rather funny.

As opposed to something like Bloodlust which is really good on, oh, EVERY FUCKING FIGHT.

[Novx]

I just find their handwringing over Gateway -- because it is really good on a couple of fights in a tier -- to be rather funny.

As opposed to something like Bloodlust which is really good on, oh, EVERY FUCKING FIGHT.

Yeah but Bloodlust is meant to be equivalent to our Soulstone. Something that is good EVERY FUCKING FIGHT, which I believe is totally acceptable. If you have 3 shamans only 1 (maybe 2 if some people die) will get use out of their amazing cooldown. The problem is that Blizzard either goes way overboard with nerfs or fails to hit any mark whatsoever with nerfs. There isn't a middle ground in which they ever manage to come close to.

[toxicrusader]

Honestly, I was expecting something like this. They said they wouldn't nerf warlocks right away cause this would nerf guilds, since we're present in most raid comps, due to the same things that are being gutted. And I think some changes are needed, but this one in particular is ridiculous. How many guilds, in need for Bloodlust, take a Warrior with Drums of Rage? Every competitive raiding guild will use potions, obviously.

And the main argument is "Potions>Healthstones = we will use both, Potions<Healthstones, we will never use first."

[Novx]

And the main argument is "Potions>Healthstones = we will use both, Potions<Healthstones, we will never use first."

What?

If Potions<Healthstones we would use them every time we don't have a warlock such as challenge modes, 5mans, raids that don't include a warlock, soloing content, etc.

If Potions>Healthstones we will never use Healthstones as they serve 0 purpose as you can just carry potions around with you and it will be better.

[sugarfree]

Makes my warlock sad, but makes my alchemist extremely happy. I can capitalize on this on my DEAD-ASS economy on my server with very cheap potions from expensive mats.

[Fenzha]

Saying we would use both if potions are better then healthstones is rubbish. If you are in a situation where you need to use one then you are never going to use the one that heals for less.

[Jessicka]

Makes my warlock sad, but makes my alchemist extremely happy. I can capitalize on this on my DEAD-ASS economy on my server with very cheap potions from expensive mats.

You make tonics with First Aid, not Alchemy.

[Crisius]

Makes my warlock sad, but makes my alchemist extremely happy. I can capitalize on this on my DEAD-ASS economy on my server with very cheap potions from expensive mats.

It's almost like we should include this in the thread title.

Health tonics are made with first aid, not alchemy. They are available to everyone.

[Jessicka]

Saying we would use both if potions are better then healthstones is rubbish. If you are in a situation where you need to use one then you are never going to use the one that heals for less.

Probably won't waste tonics in LFR/Normal or even farm Heroics to be honest. Same as I wouldn't waste my 300 food there earlier in the expansion. Save them for Mythic and while Heroic is still challenging in the first few weeks.

[Mormolyce]

Why not just make the lock's personal healthstones = potion and the ones that other people take from the soulwell < potions?

Anyway, kind of a minor issue. I'm just glad that First Aid is going to be useful for the first time ever.

Could somebody please tweet Celestalon that:

"Drums>Bloodlust" means that both get used. "Bloodlust>Drums" would mean that Bloodlust is always used, virtually never Drums.

Lust > Drums means you use drums when there is no lust.

Drums > lust means everyone swaps to LW.

[Crisius]

Except you don't need leatherworking to use drums. Or inscription to use scrolls. You get the idea.