Resto - 6.0 latest patch notes discussion

[Zaxvriin]

There appears to be one fatal flaw people have when talking about comparing spells and classes and trying to say not to:

Spells that fill a specific roll should do the equivalent. There's a reason every healer received a cooldown for "raid saving". Basically healing tide, tranquility, divine hymn, revival, power word barrier and devo should do the equivalent amount of healing because they're filling the same role. Else you end up with "Well, we need to pair these two up to be equal to this other one" or "We need to use these 3 cooldowns when this big damage happens, then use these two the next time" because they are not equal.

Before healing tide was doing more than the others, so obviously it did need to be toned down and should do less, but the amount less should be based off of the thought "How much healing can a shaman reasonably due during its duration". That's the "tax" that should be placed upon it.

The other thing that is fun to think about is this:
Would you say shamans are better at healing a spread out raid on live or on beta right now? I think its kinda funny blizzard for the moment has actually made shaman spread healing worse by all the changes they've done.

[Deleted]

There appears to be one fatal flaw people have when talking about comparing spells and classes and trying to say not to:

Spells that fill a specific roll should do the equivalent. There's a reason every healer received a cooldown for "raid saving". Basically healing tide, tranquility, divine hymn, revival, power word barrier and devo should do the equivalent amount of healing because they're filling the same role. Else you end up with "Well, we need to pair these two up to be equal to this other one" or "We need to use these 3 cooldowns when this big damage happens, then use these two the next time" because they are not equal.

Before healing tide was doing more than the others, so obviously it did need to be toned down and should do less, but the amount less should be based off of the thought "How much healing can a shaman reasonably due during its duration". That's the "tax" that should be placed upon it.

The other thing that is fun to think about is this:
Would you say shamans are better at healing a spread out raid on live or on beta right now? I think its kinda funny blizzard for the moment has actually made shaman spread healing worse by all the changes they've done.

Yeah, not exactly you're missing many other variables such as: the entire toolkit of a given class. Although i can agree it's somewhat reasonable to compare HTT to Tranq and Divine hymn since these are all 3 minute cooldowns, fill the same role and the rest of the toolkit doesn't impact the viability or power of the cd. One could argue but the calculation error is undoubtly lower than when comparing Wild Growth and CH which is apples to oranges. About spread healing: In my opinion spread healing was always dead for a shaman ever since vanilla until now except for the last two months where they removed the cd on CH.

[Deleted]

There appears to be one fatal flaw people have when talking about comparing spells and classes and trying to say not to:

Spells that fill a specific roll should do the equivalent. There's a reason every healer received a cooldown for "raid saving". Basically healing tide, tranquility, divine hymn, revival, power word barrier and devo should do the equivalent amount of healing because they're filling the same role. Else you end up with "Well, we need to pair these two up to be equal to this other one" or "We need to use these 3 cooldowns when this big damage happens, then use these two the next time" because they are not equal.

Before healing tide was doing more than the others, so obviously it did need to be toned down and should do less, but the amount less should be based off of the thought "How much healing can a shaman reasonably due during its duration". That's the "tax" that should be placed upon it.

The other thing that is fun to think about is this:
Would you say shamans are better at healing a spread out raid on live or on beta right now? I think its kinda funny blizzard for the moment has actually made shaman spread healing worse by all the changes they've done.

It did need to be toned down indeed, but power needed to be given to other weak areas, the healing you do whilst HTT is down is irrelevant, it's not like the spells you're casting cost no mana, and with the power of HTT you can let it heal everyone itself unless you want a bunch of overhealing.

On live they are better at spread due to HST imo.

[shammypie]

It did need to be toned down indeed, but power needed to be given to other weak areas, the healing you do whilst HTT is down is irrelevant, it's not like the spells you're casting cost no mana, and with the power of HTT you can let it heal everyone itself unless you want a bunch of overhealing.

On live they are better at spread due to HST imo.

to be honest i don't think the power needed to be tuned down at all. Healer cds were meant to be massive raid stabilizers. its one of the things i like about resto shamans during mop was that if anything you could turn youself into a periodic burst healer which offset the fact that we couldn't spread heal properly. Hell its the only way i was able to compete on durumu and tortos. I think blizzard needs to realize our niche should be burst healing not stacked healing (because thats working lol) and tune our healing cds to all be extremely high. IE ascendance and AG should make us do 3-4x more healing than its current 2.0 and 1.6.

its the same thing with monks as well, they have lost sight of what these classes should be in their quest for balance. Monks used to be great dps with decent healing (true hybrid) but that was op so now they are in the gutter with us (and making sure we don't leave them alone).

[Aviators]

EB keeps missing the raid boss target dummy, and everything seems so nerfed

[Zaxvriin]

EB keeps missing the raid boss target dummy, and everything seems so nerfed

If you're not level 100, that would explain it. Else look at your character sheet to see if you still have 15% hit passive as resto.

[rheeah]

If you're not level 100, that would explain it. Else look at your character sheet to see if you still have 15% hit passive as resto.

Hit bonuses are gone...

[Deleted]

Shamans terrible at the start of an expansion shocker..
Blizzard head in the sands saying all is fine shocker..

Like people really don't expect the same stuff, it's been like this for years - out dated clunky fundementals and a healing niche (stacked) that is useful on 20% of the content.

Glad I didn't bother re-subbing for this XPac.

[Deleted]

Shamans terrible at the start of an expansion shocker..
Blizzard head in the sands saying all is fine shocker..

Like people really don't expect the same stuff, it's been like this for years - out dated clunky fundementals and a healing niche (stacked) that is useful on 20% of the content.

Glad I didn't bother re-subbing for this XPac.

we dont have a healing ninch anymore other classes are out stack healing us so its technically worse!

[Shockeye]

Basically, smart heals are nerfed in effectiveness, Resto Shaman are still highly dependent on smart heals. Celestalon promised "buffs to compensate" and said buffs never manifested.
That is fundamentally the core of the problem as I see it. When a spec is dependent on a mechanic, and you degrade that mechanic (which was needed), but fail to overhaul the spec that made use of that mechanic, development has dropped a pretty important ball.

[AngrusFTW]

I've loved Resto for a long time.. I just wanna heal in WoD and kick ass. :3

[rheeah]

It is rather remarkable that the patch notes still say:

Restoration Shaman had the most passive and smart healing of any healer, and so received some reductions in that area, along with buffs elsewhere to keep them competitive.

Where exactly were these "buffs elsewhere"? Enhancement? Elemental?

[Cai]

like a new passive called Shaman: the sad healer
Your healing rain now permanently follows you around wherever you go.

So you want to turn us into Juvia from Fairy Tail?

[Deleted]

No!
I hate Fairy Tail :<

[Deleted]

I expected the HTT nerf, it was way too strong as it was before (especially with trinket active / procs). But I would have liked them to put some of that healing into HST or even Riptide.

I actually played my druid this evening for Hans'gar & Franzok and was a bit upset how trivial it was to heal, hoping they tune it down.

Same here. Whenever i play druid I get ticked off at how mindnumbing it is, and then see the results and just wanna quit the game. Druid healing is absurdly costly (brain cells) and yet so fng effective. Btw, don't you forget to jump like Tigger.

I think the class concepts are so fundamentally flawed, that the whole system is fubar. In my opinion it begins with making multiple healing classes at all. You can either have them all play the same, or have them play differently with very different tools. Then you end up with Class A is the pvp healer, Class B is the raid healer, Class C is the tank healer and Resto Shaman can go f themselves. With only 1 healing class, players could have rolled 'The healing class' and then choose their spec based on what the fight needs them to do (like in Rift Classic, it was awesome).

Blizzard's solution to the dilemma? Nerf buff merge split rollercoaster. How witty :>

[Mordog]

Glyph of Chaining needs to be redesigned.


Instead of adding absurd CD the Glyphe should be the following:

Healing Wave and Healing Surge brings up a buff that increase the jumpingdistance by 33% - Stacks 3 Times.

So you are able to "spam" Chain Heal in stacked Situations where people also stand in our Healingrain.
While its possible to deliver a bit amound of spread healing in other situations.

[Deleted]

Glyph of Chaining needs to be redesigned.


Instead of adding absurd CD the Glyphe should be the following:

Healing Wave and Healing Surge brings up a buff that increase the jumpingdistance by 33% - Stacks 3 Times.

So you are able to "spam" Chain Heal in stacked Situations where people also stand in our Healingrain.
While its possible to deliver a bit amound of spread healing in other situations.

I really like that Idea, and atleast that gives us a way of charging up the chain heal for spread fights

[Deleted]

With only 1 healing class, players could have rolled 'The healing class' and then choose their spec based on what the fight needs them to do (like in Rift Classic, it was awesome).

Blizzard's solution to the dilemma? Nerf buff merge split rollercoaster. How witty :>

This is a rose tinted glasses thing that you aren't really thinking through. Why would a single class with multiple specs be any better than multiple classes with one spec (or two for Priests)? Its the exact same situation. Some specs do better in PvE than PvE, some specs do better at Raid healing than Tank healing, and vise versa.

It would be a better situation for players than only want to play a Healer on that character, as you can always be the best you can be for the situation, but then that in itself brings its own issues in that they now have to balance for min-maxing. It would be like if they balanced say every single raid stacking Disc Priests right now, because min-max wise thats the best.

Spreading the healer specs out over classes gives Healers an ability to DPS (yey Duel Spec) or Tank if they want, and also means you can actually choose what you want to play, and not be forced to min-max all the time.

[Deleted]

I don't really like the idea of just one healing class, but what I dislike even more is that every healing class should be able to do everything. "Where's my spread out aoe heal? Where's my close AoE heal? Where's my burst heal? Where's my HoT? Where's my emergency cooldown?". The healers should be different and they should compliment each other. For example, have a proactive shield-based healer with damage reduction and a throughput-based healer as an example. Yes, the proactive healer is able to heal decently by setting up damage reduction and pre-shielding before AoE phase and then putting up the shields after the AoE phase and the reactive healer is able to heal decently by just using their AoE heal after the raid damage was taken, but you get the best results when the proactive healer sets up the shields and damage reduction and the reactive throughput healer takes care of actually getting everyone topped up.

Yes, that would mean that situationally depending on fights different healers would be better, but at least it would be a variety of healers instead of stacking just one because everyone wouldn't have the right tools for everything so you'd actually need the other healers.

[Deleted]

^Unfortunately at this point resto shamans are not really good at either of those situations. Resto druids can swap talents/glyphs and adjust their playstyle to what the situation requires.
So either you give every healer a niche, or you give everyone a diverse toolkit to do every job just as well as everyone else. You can't give one class the latter and the rest gets benched.