"The Man has to Pay for the Date" - No Different from Prostitution.

[saucywench]

Perhaps it's because some men expect that if they buy something for a women, sex should be offered in return. Fight fire with fire.

How did this "expectation of sex" ever become so acceptable?!? So you buy her some drinks and dinner, lets be generous and say it came to 60 dollars. Seriously you expect sex for 60 dollars worth of food? Grocery shopping just became a whole lot more interesting.

[Gheld]

How did this "expectation of sex" ever become so acceptable?!? So you buy her some drinks and dinner, lets be generous and say it came to 60 dollars. Seriously you expect sex for 60 dollars worth of food? Grocery shopping just became a whole lot more interesting.

What is this "expecting sex" anyway?

All of this white-knightery just validates the barbaric idea that women should have their sexuality repressed.

Instead here we are still stuck in some "sex is icky and sinful" puritanical nonsense culture that establishes women as 'sex brokers' in order to reward men for their 'goodness'.

Want to know why no matter how hard you try you can't help but watch porn? Because, albeit admittedly pornography doesn't paint the most realistic picture of human sexuality, it's still more realistic than this 'matrix' of abrahamic moralist sexual repression that we live in.

And it's not just women who are repressed, it's men too, by virtue of the fact that sex is the psychological equivalent of a dog's treat for them.

[Deleted]

I have no problem buying pretty girls drinks and dinner, while expecting nothing in return. Doing it tomorrow actually. The pleasure of her company is all I desire.

Why doesn't she pay then, to enjoy the pleasure of your company?

[THE Bigzoman]

Perhaps some people actually like to get to know a person before deciding whether or not they want to bang them.

Not really. If we're talking about deciding whether or not you want to bang, there's a much simpler criteria.

For younger guys without experience, having a vagina is sufficient.

When you get older, it simply becomes a question of does she look good to my standards.

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Then start a conversation rather than buy drinks

Buy drinks and converse at the same time?

[Chain Chungus]

I am a straight man with some gay man friends. I have been to gay bars and accepted drinks from men without any intention of following through. So you can be just like a woman if you want. So stop complaining and go to gay bars.

I would not feel good about myself in using gay men for free drinks with no intention of even giving them the time of day afterwards.

[Reeve]

When you think about it, the only difference is that the women on dates are a bet rather than a guaranteed lay. I know this sounds misogynistic, and to a strong extent it it is.

I don't blame women who accept free things from men, I would do the same. Still, I do think it's rather shitty that all of my female friends consider it everyday life to get men to pay for their drinks at bars with no intention of engaging them in conversation or etc and then be surprised that they aggressively hit on them with expectations.

Basic decent person logic: "This lady wouldn't have accepted my offer to buy her a drink unless she was interested."

Every female friend I know and my wife has admitted to accepting such offers - drinks, dinner, etc, - without any intention of following through with the interested party.

That's fucked up and is just as much taking advantage of gender advantages as men do.

I've found that many women think of it as "Men already have enough advantages, might as well take advantage of my ability to sexually manipulate them to even the score." As I said I'd do the same, but it is a regressive trend in terms of equality.

Check yo' selves!

Edit: Men of course still have a ridiculously unfair advantage in life over women, just talking about a specific issue.

I wonder if you're calling your mother no different from a prostitute right now.

[Deleted]

Why doesn't she pay then, to enjoy the pleasure of your company?

Because, you know, he kinda does it voluntary. If you don't want to pay for her, don't pay for her. Theres this old fashion thing called chivalry, it is in no way mandatory, but it is still commonly used. Ironicly it is not used by the so called 'nice guys' who expect girls to have sex with them for smiling creepy and opening the door.

You're also free to ask a girl out and expect her to pay for it. I wish you good luck.

[Gheld]

Because, you know, he kinda does it voluntary. If you don't want to pay for her, don't pay for her. Theres this old fashion thing called chivalry, it is in no way mandatory, but it is still commonly used. Ironicly it is not used by the so called 'nice guys' who expect girls to have sex with them for smiling creepy and opening the door.

You're also free to ask a girl out and expect her to pay for it. I wish you good luck.

And at what point does sex become a mutual decision between two human beings who respect each other and see each other as equals outside of the bedroom? You're still pushing for an ideal where female sexuality is deliberately repressed.

If a woman wants to have sex in exchange for some sort of consideration then she's a whore.
If a woman wants to have sex without receiving consideration in return then she's a slut.

The common denominator is women wanting to have sex for the purpose of satisfying what they want.

Mr. Nice guy, mr. white knight, mr. preacher man... they are all the same barbaric slob.

[breadisfunny]

this is a dumb concept. prostitution is having sex for money. paying for a date DOES NOT gaurantee sex at all.

[Gheld]

this is a dumb concept. prostitution is having sex for money. paying for a date DOES NOT gaurantee sex at all.

The real dumb concept is the idea of spending time and resources on a one sided courtship wherein there is no consideration on the woman's side. And yet people just constantly feed this paradigm.

To invoke and paraphrase one of my favorite movies of all time (sorry never read the book.)

What has she ever done to prove how she feels about you?

[Reeve]

The real dumb concept is the idea of spending time and resources on a one sided courtship wherein there is no consideration on the woman's side. And yet people just constantly feed this paradigm.

To invoke and paraphrase one of my favorite movies of all time (sorry never read the book.)

What has she ever done to prove how she feels about you?

Women spend time and money on the courtship too. There are considerations on both sides.

[Captain N]

Women spend time and money on the courtship too. There are considerations on both sides.

The good ones do. I've said earlier this is the Internet Dating era and there are many women out there who dig through profiles just to get a free meal and/or drinks. I think people are confusing courtship with 1st date. There shouldn't be any courting on a first date...That's the getting to know you date.

[Gheld]

Women spend time and money on the courtship too. There are considerations on both sides.

In a normal adult relationship yes. But I see people wasting time and money on one sided courtships all too often. It's really quite sad. And that is where you come to the ole "who should pay?" debate.

If two people are of roughly the same age and financial capability, and are both courting each other then the exchange of items of monetary value just becomes a wasteful practice. You're better off just meeting half way and going out to do something you both enjoy.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Because, you know, he kinda does it voluntary. If you don't want to pay for her, don't pay for her. Theres this old fashion thing called chivalry, it is in no way mandatory, but it is still commonly used. Ironicly it is not used by the so called 'nice guys' who expect girls to have sex with them for smiling creepy and opening the door.

You're also free to ask a girl out and expect her to pay for it. I wish you good luck.

What you call chivalry isn't actually so. Chivalry has to do with military honor, what you're talking about is closer to some warped form of gallantry or courtesy.

[Reeve]

The good ones do. I've said earlier this is the Internet Dating era and there are many women out there who dig through profiles just to get a free meal and/or drinks. I think people are confusing courtship with 1st date. There shouldn't be any courting on a first date...That's the getting to know you date.

I don't think many women subject themselves to the annoying reality of a first date just for the sake of getting a free meal. Seriously.

[Captain N]

I don't think many women subject themselves to the annoying reality of a first date just for the sake of getting a free meal. Seriously.

You haven't subjected yourself to OK Cupid or Plenty of Fish dates have you?

[diddle]

I don't think many women subject themselves to the annoying reality of a first date just for the sake of getting a free meal. Seriously.

Plenty actually do, my wife apparently used to do it. It's like a sick sport to them.

[Speaknoevil]

What a strange concept.

Plenty actually do, my wife apparently used to do it. It's like a sick sport to them.

"..them."

I have never gone out with someone just for a free restaurant meal.

I've had a free meal pushed on me in spite of my vehement insistence to the contrary many times though. On the occasions where I caved and let them do it, it was because they had started trying to make me feel guilty about not wanting to let them pay.

[Reeve]

You haven't subjected yourself to OK Cupid or Plenty of Fish dates have you?

OK Cupid, yeah.

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I like that...as if the poor woman is just so beset upon by having to go on a date with one of us awful men.

I'm beset upon by having to sift through a bunch of annoying women before I find one worth a second date too. It goes both ways. You go on a bunch of dates and eventually you find one worth keeping.

[Captain N]

OK Cupid, yeah.

Strange that you never encountered one person just out for a free meal. My personal favorites are women who have Occupational Statuses as Unemployed yet have their ideal mate listed as someone who is "Independent".