Simulationcraft results for WoD

[gahddo]

I'm sorry, I totally missed it - I'm still fiddling with subtlety right now, I'll try and get a look into it a bit later today.

I'll hold off on committing the current subt APL you have posted then.

Been tinkering with combat a lot today and the only change in your apl from the default one that I can really get significant gains out of is removing the energy restriction on the AD lines. Everything else seems to be ~noise.

[Squirl]

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but I didn't see anything in the last few pages.

Has the new 680 alch trinket been simmed yet? How does it stack up vs Coin for sub and combat?

[Coldkil]

About DfA:

i tried an heroic run yesterday evening as Sub with the talent. While i'm not used to have it and it's completely possible that my performance was lower than usual because i was using it not optimally (e.g: correct usage during SD/FW), i found it to be less appealing than expected.

The "main issue" is that we have to manage both Rupture and SnD, and many times i had DfA available and 5CP, but Rupture or SnD needed refresh because they won't last enough perform a DfA and get back 5 CP (long animation has also a role in this) - espacially Rupture because of Multistrike mechanic.

I prioritized Rupture > SnD > DfA, but still i think that we are assuming to be able to use DfA every 20 seconds, while in reality i found myself using it a lot less reducing its effectiveness.

I would really like to have additionl info on this, and if my reasoining is incorrect on some points. Basically because i don't want to write something in the guide that isn't tested and proved right.

[Ryme]

I'll hold off on committing the current subt APL you have posted then.

Been tinkering with combat a lot today and the only change in your apl from the default one that I can really get significant gains out of is removing the energy restriction on the AD lines. Everything else seems to be ~noise.

There's a ton of noise in a lot of the profiles now, mostly a by-product of having a large amount of contributors unaware of each others changes. I've been cleaning and improving the Sub APL and trying to stop adding in anticipation support from being a loss (which it obviously shouldn't).

Currently got a profile running at around 46300 and tired of the headaches involved so I'm gonna leave it be there.

Assassination is by far the most neglected, I spent a few minutes on it the other week and found some trivial changes that provided ~700 dps, I'm convinced it can do more. I'd suggest taking a look at that, be warned, it's also the most messy and really do with a rewrite into specific action lists for specific active enemies.

OT: Trinket lists will be updated today to include heroic BRF values as well as improved profession trinkets.

DfA in practise sucks. The current profile will prio Rupt -> SnD -> DfA, but swapping DfA and SnD around makes hardly any difference. Reality is that unless you're running a super high mastery build, DfA probably isn't the way to go anyway, SR will nearly always provide more consistent and better returns.

[Coldkil]

DfA in practise sucks. The current profile will prio Rupt -> SnD -> DfA, but swapping DfA and SnD around makes hardly any difference. Reality is that unless you're running a super high mastery build, DfA probably isn't the way to go anyway, SR will nearly always provide more consistent and better returns.

Which was my impression. I don't think it will ever be a good designed talent - it may become a dps increase when the damage is pumped up enough, but the issues of correct usage and teleport/loss of character control make it waay less appealing than it should - they could have made it simply a ShS plus improved finisher/AoE instead of this animation that looks cool but it's not so good in practice.

[Galufio]

OT: Trinket lists will be updated today to include heroic BRF values as well as improved profession trinkets.

Thanks Ryme! Really appreciated!

[Ryme]

Ryme - have you tested this change for combat? Thoughts?

I'm seeing nothing but losses there, pastebin the whole profile?

[kindath]

Which was my impression. I don't think it will ever be a good designed talent - it may become a dps increase when the damage is pumped up enough, but the issues of correct usage and teleport/loss of character control make it waay less appealing than it should - they could have made it simply a ShS plus improved finisher/AoE instead of this animation that looks cool but it's not so good in practice.

Having the first pulse of DfA be a crimson tempest might go a long way towards improving synergy, with Sub and Assassination at least. It also doesn't help that it has such a high energy cost, given that all three specs have ruthlessness.

Do you think that simply speeding up the animation - like, heroic leap speed - might be enough to make it usable?

[Ryme]

Updated thread, various changes to sub and combat APL, trinket lists updated, we're back to tier sets enabled for the upcoming BRF launch.

[Deleted]

Updated thread, various changes to sub and combat APL, trinket lists updated, we're back to tier sets enabled for the upcoming BRF launch.

In that case please update the disclaimer in the OP that says "set bonuses are disabled for the moment" as well.

[Ryme]

Thanks for the catch, fixed.

[Coldkil]

Having the first pulse of DfA be a crimson tempest might go a long way towards improving synergy, with Sub and Assassination at least. It also doesn't help that it has such a high energy cost, given that all three specs have ruthlessness.

Do you think that simply speeding up the animation - like, heroic leap speed - might be enough to make it usable?

Animation time has actually quite a role since you need to also consider that in the optic of refreshing Rupture/SnD - also the whole stuff making lose control of the character just sucks and even if we get the CP refunded when it doesn't hit because of boss/raid movements, still we've lost quite a bunch of uptime for basically nothing back (more than one time i timed DfA and Anticipation to do a DfA-Rupture thing and i just wasted 5 cp).

The idea of a more powerful finisher with a CD is actually cool and i like it. The way it's implemented kinda sucks, because instead of being a guaranteed dps increase is clunky, difficult to use properly and dps neutral if not a loss.

It being a sort of ShS+Finisher makes it not only good for raw damage, but useful as gap closer plus not having all the related issues it now has.

EDIT: i think the high energy cost is due to the long animation which causes us to pool a lot during DfA - this way we avoid capping.

[jpsona]

I'm seeing nothing but losses there, pastebin the whole profile?

Found an extra tweak that seems to push it ahead. Still feel Anticipation/pooling could be better to ensure max DfA casts.

My results using 603-24, 300 sec duration, single target, 50k iterations:

Stock T17M Combat: 44208
APL from this thread: 44546
With DfA modifications (below): 44627

rogue="Rogue_Combat_T17M"
level=100
race=blood_elf
role=attack
position=back
talents=3000033
glyphs=energy/disappearance
spec=combat

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_agility_flask
actions.precombat+=/food,type=frosty_stew
actions.precombat+=/apply_poison,lethal=deadly
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_agility
actions.precombat+=/stealth
actions.precombat+=/marked_for_death
actions.precombat+=/slice_and_dice,if=talent.marked_for_death.enabled

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=potion,name=draenic_agility,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<40|(buff.adrenaline_rush.up&(trinket.proc.any.react|trinket.stacking_proc.any.react|buff.archmages_greater_incandescence_agi.react))
actions+=/kick
actions+=/preparation,if=!buff.vanish.up&cooldown.vanish.remains>30
actions+=/use_item,slot=trinket2
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/berserking
actions+=/arcane_torrent,if=energy<60
actions+=/blade_flurry,if=(active_enemies>=2&!buff.blade_flurry.up)|(active_enemies<2&buff.blade_flurry.up)
actions+=/shadow_reflection,if=(cooldown.killing_spree.remains<10&combo_points>3)|buff.adrenaline_rush.up
actions+=/ambush
actions+=/vanish,if=time>10&(combo_points<3|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<3)|(combo_points<4|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<4)))&((talent.shadow_focus.enabled&buff.adrenaline_rush.down&energy<90&energy>=15)|(talent.subterfuge.enabled&energy>=90)|(!talent.shadow_focus.enabled&!talent.subterfuge.enabled&energy>=60))
actions+=/slice_and_dice,if=buff.slice_and_dice.remains<2|((target.time_to_die>45&combo_points=5&buff.slice_and_dice.remains<12)&buff.deep_insight.down)
actions+=/call_action_list,name=adrenaline_rush,if=buff.bloodlust.up|cooldown.killing_spree.remains>10
actions+=/call_action_list,name=killing_spree,if=(energy<40|(buff.bloodlust.up&time<10)|buff.bloodlust.remains>20)&buff.adrenaline_rush.down&(!talent.shadow_reflection.enabled|cooldown.shadow_reflection.remains>30|buff.shadow_reflection.remains>3)
actions+=/marked_for_death,if=combo_points<=1&dot.revealing_strike.ticking&(!talent.shadow_reflection.enabled|buff.shadow_reflection.up|cooldown.shadow_reflection.remains>30)
actions+=/death_from_above,if=combo_points=5&dot.revealing_strike.ticking
actions+=/call_action_list,name=generator,if=combo_points<5|!dot.revealing_strike.ticking|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<3&buff.deep_insight.down)
actions+=/call_action_list,name=finisher,if=combo_points=5&dot.revealing_strike.ticking&(buff.deep_insight.up|!talent.anticipation.enabled|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges>=3))

actions.adrenaline_rush=adrenaline_rush,if=time_to_die>=44
actions.adrenaline_rush+=/adrenaline_rush,if=time_to_die<44&(buff.archmages_greater_incandescence_agi.react|trinket.proc.any.react|trinket.stacking_proc.any.react)
actions.adrenaline_rush+=/adrenaline_rush,if=time_to_die<=buff.adrenaline_rush.duration*1.5

actions.killing_spree=killing_spree,if=time_to_die>=44
actions.killing_spree+=/killing_spree,if=time_to_die<44&buff.archmages_greater_incandescence_agi.react&buff.archmages_greater_incandescence_agi.remains>=buff.killing_spree.duration
actions.killing_spree+=/killing_spree,if=time_to_die<44&trinket.proc.any.react&trinket.proc.any.remains>=buff.killing_spree.duration
actions.killing_spree+=/killing_spree,if=time_to_die<44&trinket.stacking_proc.any.react&trinket.stacking_proc.any.remains>=buff.killing_spree.duration
actions.killing_spree+=/killing_spree,if=time_to_die<=buff.killing_spree.duration*1.5

actions.finisher=death_from_above
actions.finisher+=/pool_resource,for_next=1
actions.finisher+=/eviscerate,if=(!talent.death_from_above.enabled|cooldown.death_from_above.remains)

actions.generator+=/revealing_strike,if=(combo_points=4&dot.revealing_strike.remains<7.2&(target.time_to_die>dot.revealing_strike.remains+7.2)|(target.time_to_die<dot.revealing_strike.remains+7.2&ticks_remain<2))|!ticking
actions.generator+=/sinister_strike,if=dot.revealing_strike.ticking

head=sorkas_nightshade_cowl,id=113978,bonus_id=567
neck=darklight_necklace,id=113865,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
shoulders=poisoners_spaulders,id=115574,bonus_id=567
back=drape_of_the_dark_hunt,id=113971,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
chest=poisoners_tunic,id=115570,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_shattered_stalactites,id=113935,bonus_id=567
hands=poisoners_gloves,id=115571,bonus_id=567
waist=girdle_of_unconquered_glory,id=113907,bonus_id=567
legs=poisoners_legguards,id=115573,bonus_id=567
feet=furnace_tenders_treads,id=113895,bonus_id=567
finger1=spellbound_runic_band_of_unrelenting_slaughter,id=118307,enchant=gift_of_haste
finger2=unexploded_explosive_shard,id=113877,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
trinket1=meaty_dragonspine_trophy,id=118114,bonus_id=567
trinket2=humming_blackiron_trigger,id=113985,bonus_id=567
main_hand=hansgars_forgehammer,id=113897,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_warsong
off_hand=hansgars_forgehammer,id=113897,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_warsong

[Mac223]

The default APL is not running anticipation. But between the setbonus and the slightly higher gear level that BiS foundry gives, anticipation is actually ahead of MfD.

[Galufio]

Even Heroic Kromog trinket is sooooo good for sub...

[shaithis]

Hey, any chance someone can publish stat weights for combat 2 targets? Also a bit surprised that SoF is ranking so low, does the simulation for Subt take into account active management of Vanish / Prep Vanish for FW uptime during the proc, considering that it is likely to be on an ICD and thus predictable?

[Puffah]

Stone of Fire is now listed as having Versatility instead of Mastery. I was so hyped

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=122604/stone-of-fire

[shaithis]

Stone of Fire is now listed as having Versatility instead of Agility. I was so hyped

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=122604/stone-of-fire

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

=(

I wonder how many people dropped other professions for Alchemy when they saw the trinket at first...Bliz is such a tease.

[Feali]

Well it was way too strong.

[Toroq]

Stone of Fire is now listed as having Versatility instead of Agility. I was so hyped

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=122604/stone-of-fire

I was under the impression that Stone of Fire was passive mastery with an agi/int/str proc, just like the blue version, and the version currently on ptr.wowhead is passive vers with an agi/int/str proc, so... is it really that much of a nerf?

I mean, it wouldn't have had passive agi in the first place since it was designed to be a one-for-all type of trinket, so I'm really lost as to what you guys are talking about.