Tunisia Beach Gunfire Kills 'At Least 27'

[Deleted]

That doesn't stop religion being one of the primary causes for these attacks.

There are not many reasons to kill for blasphemy cartoons besides religion.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

That doesn't stop religion being one of the primary causes for these attacks.

No...but you still don't condemn an entire religion for the actions of the extremists.

[Underverse]

No...but you still don't condemn an entire religion for the actions of the extremists.

'Confederate separatists aren't bad, it was just that one guy who shot up a church!'

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Unfortunately, as long as muslims identify themselves as a unit - as a group of people - the actions of a few will reflect on the actions (or inaction) of the many. The same goes for any self-identified group of people. Confederates, LGBT, Christians. Would you be making the same argument if we were talking about that kid Roof who shot up the church? Is his ideology not to blame for some part of his action?

I would actually. Roof killed those people himself. As far as i can tell his "ideology" was of his own making.

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'Confederate separatists aren't bad, it was just that one guy who shot up a church!'

"Confederate Separatists" didn't shoot up that church. Dylann Roof did.

As bad as Confederate Separatists may be...most of them don't go around shooting innocent people.

Should I condemn all Christians for the actions of the KKK? They self-identify as Christian.

[Underverse]

I would actually. Roof killed those people himself. As far as i can tell his "ideology" was of his own making.

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"Confederate Separatists" didn't shoot up that church. Dylann Roof did.

As bad as Confederate Separatists may be...most of them don't go around shooting innocent people.

This is correct. But are you claiming that the ideology that ensconced him had nothing to do with it? Are you saying that it doesn't matter if we teach love or hate, because the outcome will be the same?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

This is correct. But are you claiming that the ideology that ensconced him had nothing to do with it? Are you saying that it doesn't matter if we teach love or hate, because the outcome will be the same?

What I am saying is that islamic extremists, like all extremists, have viewpoints that are not shared by the majority of their faith.

[Underverse]

What I am saying is that islamic extremists, like all extremists, have viewpoints that are not shared by the majority of their faith.

Again, I agree with you. But I don't think that extremists are spontaneously generating their beliefs. It seems to me like their beliefs are still derived from the religion - that is, they are not separate beliefs, but simply more exaggerated beliefs. If you can exaggerate a belief enough to kill innocent children for essentially no reason, then I believe there is a critical defect in that fundamental belief.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Again, I agree with you. But I don't think that extremists are spontaneously generating their beliefs. It seems to me like their beliefs are still derived from the religion - that is, they are not separate beliefs, but simply more exaggerated beliefs. If you can exaggerate a belief enough to kill innocent children for essentially no reason, then I believe there is a critical defect in that fundamental belief.

Any belief can be exaggerated to kill innocents. Should I hold Christianity accountable for the actions of Anders Breivik?

[Acidbaron]

Again, I agree with you. But I don't think that extremists are spontaneously generating their beliefs. It seems to me like their beliefs are still derived from the religion - that is, they are not separate beliefs, but simply more exaggerated beliefs. If you can exaggerate a belief enough to kill innocent children for essentially no reason, then I believe there is a critical defect in that fundamental belief.

We can take parts of any ideology and find parts in it that encourage and condone violence, christianity is no different.
These are people that aren't well educated as us, combine that with people nitpicking parts that say exactly that and ignore the entire context. This is the result you get when combine with a generation that is lost and sees no future.

[Underverse]

Any belief can be exaggerated to kill innocents. Should I hold Christianity accountable for the actions of Anders Breivik?

Maybe. What he doing it in the name of Christianity?

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We can take parts of any ideology and find parts in it that encourage and condone violence, christianity is no different.
These are people that aren't well educated as us, combine that with people nitpicking parts that say exactly that and ignore the entire context. This is the result you get when combine with a generation that is lost and sees no future.

I'm not saying Christianity is different. I'm just saying that these ignorant and baseless ideologies are able tools for people who are, as you say, lost and without a future.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Maybe. What he doing it in the name of Christianity?

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I'm not saying Christianity is different. I'm just saying that these ignorant and baseless ideologies are able tools for people who are, as you say, lost and without a future.

So what...when an Atheist shoots up a church because "its an ignorant and baseless ideology"...are all atheists to be held accountable?

[draykorinee]

Any belief can be exaggerated to kill innocents. Should I hold Christianity accountable for the actions of Anders Breivik?

Yes, of that was his motivating factor.

[Acidbaron]

Yes, of that was his motivating factor.

No religion is used as a justification in this case. The motivation in his actions come from having a grim outlook on his future, desperation makes people do desperate things, religion alone is far from a strong enough motivator in a normal situation.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Yes, of that was his motivating factor.

Let me ask you what I asked the other guy:
If an Atheist shoots up a church because he thinks religion is stupid...is Atheism accountable?

[Deleted]

Let me ask you what I asked the other guy:
If an Atheist shoots up a church because he thinks religion is stupid...is Atheism accountable?

If it happens often and time and time again in all parts of the world. And when those atheist try to take land and lives in the name of no god exists, well then we have a problem.
Most secular people are not pure atheists but somewhere between agnostic and atheist but still adhere to the cultural relgion the stem from.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

If it happens often and time and time again in all parts of the world. And when those atheist try to take land and lives in the name of no god exists, well then we have a problem.

So the Capitol Hill shooting in February where an Atheist killed three muslim students...is Atheism accountable?

Most secular people are not pure atheists but somewhere between agnostic and atheist but still adhere to the cultural relgion the stem from.

Which is why i specifically used the term "Atheist".


Anyway...The point of all this is that you can't blame an entire group of people based on the twisted interpretations made by extremists.

[Bakis]

Anyway...The point of all this is that you can't blame an entire group of people based on the twisted interpretations made by extremists.

True, just that Islam seem be a magnet for extremists in todays world compared to any other religion or lack of such.

[Rhine101]

No...but you still don't condemn an entire religion for the actions of the extremists.

I'd condemn any religion who has such a large amount of extremist doing such horrid things. I mean, It is the same with Catholic priests. You could go around saying "Not all Catholics condone pedo's" or you can just admit there is a serious problem and it needs to be fixed.

Why is it only Muslims that we get all defensive about? They have an issue with extremists. Address that shit. Just hand waving while more people get slaughtered doesn't help anything.

[Acidbaron]

True, just that Islam seem be a magnet for extremists in todays world compared to any other religion or lack of such.

Since it's most dominant religion in parts of the world that are most unstable. Nothing to do with the actual religion itself or its contents.

[Rhine101]

Since it's most dominant religion in parts of the world that are most unstable. Nothing to do with the actual religion itself or its contents.

I don't think you can say that. For all you know Islam is what is holding them back.

It is commonly stated that religion is holding back progress in America. Why can't that be possible in those regions? I think that it has some merit. To say that the region is unstable because "Reasons" and Islam has nothing to do with it is suspect at best.

Another example. Catholicism in the Philippines has been kinda ruining their country for a while. Religion can and has caused issues in countries. Just because we are talking about Islam doesn't suddenly change the rules.