[Resto] Druid Guide & Discussion (6.0.3)

[ryklin]

yeah basically p2 tyrant you can do w/e the fuck you want and it'll show up as healing on recount/skada/logs

it's basicaly malkorok 2.0

that's also why a person is pulling 150k hps on it for the rank 1 log

[Mollerz]

Has anyone done any serious testing with Seed of Creation, alternatively, does anyone have logs of someone with it? I'm currently running HC Seed of Creation and M Flickering Felspark. I've been unlucky and have received no Demonic Phylactery yet, but if I were to receive it (Heroic version), which trinket would you consider replacing, or would you replace dependant on spirit levels or fight?

[Hypasonic]

Well you'd replace the class trinket, because you'll only ever use that on a few fights where the raid is pretty much stacked up. On heal intensive fights you'd use the leech trinket, the phalactery is pretty much used on every fight.

I have a mythic phalactery which I use all the time, and swap out a MW Felspark on heal intensive fights for the leech trinket, once I get the class trinket I'll use that on stacked fights even above the leech trinket because everything will be farm then anyways.

[Deleted]

Has anyone done any serious testing with Seed of Creation, alternatively, does anyone have logs of someone with it? I'm currently running HC Seed of Creation and M Flickering Felspark. I've been unlucky and have received no Demonic Phylactery yet, but if I were to receive it (Heroic version), which trinket would you consider replacing, or would you replace dependant on spirit levels or fight?

Heroic Phylactery is equivalent to just under 900 Spirit for resto druids, as seen HERE. I would personally consider it to be our above-all BiS and would have a hard time seeing a time where we wouldn't use it.

I tested Seed on PTR and it was not worth the spirit/throughput trade off. Running OOM, even as someone who is used to playing with very low spirit, was something I had to be very careful about and the extra healing it offered didn't seem worth it. Maybe with practice and some more gear it would be fine, but as it stands I can't see it being a huge boon, and we should certainly pass it on to other healers. I would keep Felspark, and replace seed with Phylactery. Maybe play with Seed on farm, and rotate Felspark out for Xhul'Horac's trinket for Gorefiend, maybe Socrethar but I'd say Seed might be a little better here due to the stacking, but the spirit required there can be fairly hefty.

By the time you get your Mythic Class Trinket (the only way I can see it actually being semi-decent due to the increased chance of a heal) everything will be on farm. The HC version doesn't seem worth it unless the raid is consistently stacked up. For now, I'd pass the HC version on to the others, as I said.

[Teramelle]

I tested Seed on PTR and it was not worth the spirit/throughput trade off.

I really have to disagree. Yes, the trinket will be very situational, but when you do get a fight with stacking involved, it is insanely good, even on Heroic level. Take Mythic Hellfire High Council, for example - pretty much every tactic is just about the raid stacking, right? Look how much the class trinket is capable of there, and I'm sure this isn't even the greatest example:



Yes, dropping the spirit could lead to some mana issues, that's true... BUT, given the amount of healing the trinket does by itself, spreading Rejuvenation and Lifebloom around, you would technically be spending less mana anyway. Like, if ten people are on low health, you HoT up five of them, and the healing from them spreads to the other five, and heals them up too, so you have five less people to spend mana on because your initial expenditure also covered them - if that makes sense?

On High Council, mana will always be an issue anyway - even if you have high regen - but I found that my throughput was actually far, far stronger when I compared my healing on attempts pre-Seed to post-Seed, and my mana didn't feel like it drained any faster than it normally did on a fight with such intense healing requirements.

But, yeah, I assure you, 100%, that on stacking fights - specifically, on Mythic difficulty - Seed is basically mandatory. You'd be foolish not to use it, and you certainly don't have to wait until you have it in its Mythic form, because Heroic is insanely strong on its own.

Has anyone done any serious testing with Seed of Creation, alternatively, does anyone have logs of someone with it? I'm currently running HC Seed of Creation and M Flickering Felspark. I've been unlucky and have received no Demonic Phylactery yet, but if I were to receive it (Heroic version), which trinket would you consider replacing, or would you replace dependant on spirit levels or fight?

If we were to imagine you had Seed, Felspark, Emulsion and Phylactery:

- Demonic Phylactery should always be used. The other trinkets are situational.
- Seed of Creation should be used on fights with lots of stacking involved.
- Unstable Felshadow Emulsion should be used on fights with consistent raidwide damage - I know it really shines on Mythic Gorefiend, for example, and Tyrant Velhari is another one I think it does well on.
- Felspark should be used as your "default," alongside Phylactery, on fights that don't fit the conditions that allow Seed/Emulsion to work at their best.

I'm pretty sure that's the best combination[s], anyway. Feel free to disagree or correct me, though, if that's not the case.

[Hypasonic]

Regardless of what version of the class trinket you have, it will only excel on stacked fights anyway. @Veilyn

If we were to imagine you had Seed, Felspark, Emulsion and Phylactery:

- Demonic Phylactery should always be used. The other trinkets are situational.
- Seed of Creation should be used on fights with lots of stacking involved.
- Unstable Felshadow Emulsion should be used on fights with consistent raidwide damage - I know it really shines on Mythic Gorefiend, for example, and Tyrant Velhari is another one I think it does well on.
- Felspark should be used as your "default," alongside Phylactery, on fights that don't fit the conditions that allow Seed/Emulsion to work at their best.

I'm pretty sure that's the best combination[s], anyway. Feel free to disagree or correct me, though, if that's not the case.

I agree with this.

[Tiberria]

I really have to disagree. Yes, the trinket will be very situational, but when you do get a fight with stacking involved, it is insanely good, even on Heroic level. Take Mythic Hellfire High Council, for example - pretty much every tactic is just about the raid stacking, right? Look how much the class trinket is capable of there, and I'm sure this isn't even the greatest example:



Yes, dropping the spirit could lead to some mana issues, that's true... BUT, given the amount of healing the trinket does by itself, spreading Rejuvenation and Lifebloom around, you would technically be spending less mana anyway. Like, if ten people are on low health, you HoT up five of them, and the healing from them spreads to the other five, and heals them up too, so you have five less people to spend mana on because your initial expenditure also covered them - if that makes sense?

On High Council, mana will always be an issue anyway - even if you have high regen - but I found that my throughput was actually far, far stronger when I compared my healing on attempts pre-Seed to post-Seed, and my mana didn't feel like it drained any faster than it normally did on a fight with such intense healing requirements.

But, yeah, I assure you, 100%, that on stacking fights - specifically, on Mythic difficulty - Seed is basically mandatory. You'd be foolish not to use it, and you certainly don't have to wait until you have it in its Mythic form, because Heroic is insanely strong on its own.



If we were to imagine you had Seed, Felspark, Emulsion and Phylactery:

- Demonic Phylactery should always be used. The other trinkets are situational.
- Seed of Creation should be used on fights with lots of stacking involved.
- Unstable Felshadow Emulsion should be used on fights with consistent raidwide damage - I know it really shines on Mythic Gorefiend, for example, and Tyrant Velhari is another one I think it does well on.
- Felspark should be used as your "default," alongside Phylactery, on fights that don't fit the conditions that allow Seed/Emulsion to work at their best.

I'm pretty sure that's the best combination[s], anyway. Feel free to disagree or correct me, though, if that's not the case.

When you math out what you lose from both the regen value and throughput procs/static stats on one of the regen trinkets, getting +17% throughput from the class trinket isn't all that impressive.

For one thing, on a fight with the level of raid damage of Mythic Council, the Leech trinket is going to account for more added throughput than the class trinket (even though it doesn't credit you with that throughput on WCL). I am regularly seeing values exceeding 20%+ added healing from the Leech trinket (you can check this with this addon http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/leech-trinket-counter), and the Leech trinket adds 400+ Spirit while the class trinket adds nothing except the Flourish proc. Basically, I don't see a single case where you should use the class trinket over the Leech trinket - fights like Council, Tyrant and Gorefiend that are favorable to the class trinket have the raid damage to also be favorable to the Leech trinket.

Basically, you would be choosing to use the class trinket over Phylactery or a regen trinket. Phlactery is worth around 1100 Spirit, which is ~216,000 mana over an 8 minute fight - like M Council. That is enough mana to add 17-18 additional Wild Growths to your spell cast selection. You don't have casts showing on your screenshot, but from how low your WG healing is (outside of the top 5 healing sources), I suspect that using a 0 regen trinket forced you to throttle your WG usage significantly (I rarely see WG below 15% of my healing done). Casting those extra WG (and possibly extra Rejuvs as well) would likely add as much or more healing than the Flourish proc, even before you factor in the throughput value of the base Int and Haste on Phylactery (or the haste proc on Autoclave, etc.).

I think the class trinket has to come close to ~25% added throughput before it is attractive relative to regen trinkets (Phylactery, Autoclave, Talisman, etc.).

[Hypasonic]

Think you are disregarding the fact that alot (Not done any maths, so feel free to correct me) of the healing done by the class trinket comes from lifebloom, which costs next to no mana. You could cast more WG's with a spirit trinket, but with the class trinket you are gaining a lot of essentially "free" healing that could quite possibly make up for it.

Regardless, I'd use it on fights where regen is manageable (Which for me atleast, makes it all the more enjoyable) and the raid is stacked up.

As a caveat, until (if at all) the leech trinket gives the user the healing gains, I'll be using the class trinket (when I get it) on farm for the stacked bosses regardless :P Progression is obviously another beast, the leech trinket is very strong on some fights.

[Teramelle]

I think the class trinket has to come close to ~25% added throughput before it is attractive relative to regen trinkets (Phylactery, Autoclave, Talisman, etc.).

Hmm. You make really good points, actually. I suppose you're right enough with the Leech trinket - I'll need to test it out next week on Council. Also, thank you for the link to the addon, btw, I've been looking for something like that.

from how low your WG healing is (outside of the top 5 healing sources)

It's technically in my top five, if you add the Lifebloom healing together - Warcraftlogs lists the bloom healing and actual HoT healing as separate sources, but I generally consider them to be one. But you're right, regardless; I did cut down a bit more than usual with WG on that pull to conserve mana. As I say, though, it was just that pull - there are other tries/kills where I used it more.

However, as Hypasonic said, a lot of the trinket healing also came from Lifebloom, which is super cheap (especially with Phylactery) so it wasn't exactly costly to get the healing from there.

But, yes, thank you for this advice - I'll keep it in mind!

[Tiberria]

Think you are disregarding the fact that alot (Not done any maths, so feel free to correct me) of the healing done by the class trinket comes from lifebloom, which costs next to no mana. You could cast more WG's with a spirit trinket, but with the class trinket you are gaining a lot of essentially "free" healing that could quite possibly make up for it.

Regardless, I'd use it on fights where regen is manageable (Which for me atleast, makes it all the more enjoyable) and the raid is stacked up.

As a caveat, until (if at all) the leech trinket gives the user the healing gains, I'll be using the class trinket (when I get it) on farm for the stacked bosses regardless :P Progression is obviously another beast, the leech trinket is very strong on some fights.

However, you are going to want to keep up LBx2 regardless of trinket selection. I agree with you that LB accounts for a chunk of the Flourish healing. However, if you use the class trinket instead of a regen trinket, you're still giving up a significant chunk of output that could be gained from burning that extra mana regen on more WG and Rejuvs. On top of that, even if the output from having more regen and casting more spells vs the Flourish proc is comparable, I would personally go for the extra regen, because you then have 100% control over what you cast and when you use it vs depending on a dumb random trinket proc.

[Hypasonic]

Some people are so quick to dismiss glyph of blooming. It's actually incredibly powerful, I just finished heroic and 2 mythic boss clear and was ranking quite a few 90+ (with a couple 99s) without intentionally trying to pad. It's an amazing replacement for regrowth. It heals incredibly quickly, is cheap and lasts 10 seconds unlike a single regrowth.

Also fights with a healing absorb like velhari? Dominated

There's enough consistant damage in this tier to justify it, I don't know the exact numbers but over the 10 seconds its easy worth multiple regrowths at the cheap cost of LB and 1 instant gcd

Throw the 2 around raid for a powerful rejuv replacement, the important thing to understand is you don't have to bother refreshing it and you get 50% increase bloom

I ran SOTF mostly with it and cycled it between swiftmend+wg combo and then rejuv as a filler, 0 healing touch usage and rarely regrowth (not needed to refresh, only for used for spot heals where a LB wasn't enough)

I actually went with glyphed lifebloom for our tries on Velhari mythic tonight and it's easily worth it:

Best try unglyphed:



Best try glyphed:



Note I only have 2 set (rip) the difference was easily notable, obviously on this fight lifebloom is at its strongest due to the absorb mechanic, aswell as the tanks taking a good old beating in p2 and beyond. I also went with NV on the tries without glyph, but have since gone with hotw since I feel its better.

My uptime was even a lot lower on the glyphed attempt (which I since improved) so it is capable of even more.

[Leaful]

You'll generally use the ring as an exclusive filler cooldown on most fights, but the shield can be pretty handy paired with a a tranq on Gorefiend etc.

[Skagasm]

I actually went with glyphed lifebloom for our tries on Velhari mythic tonight and it's easily worth it:.

Those 2 screenshots suggest the glyph is probably not worth it. Without some kind of time and/or overheal data it's difficult to be sure, but, assuming both pulls were pretty similar, these screenshots suggest you're getting 25% more Lifebloom healing for 80% more casts. That's probably not a good trade.

[Hypasonic]

I'll be able to compare them better from our tries tonight, more casts could simply be due to more dispells of the healing debuff and having to recast it that way. But more often than not its probably just down to it basically being casted every 10 seconds. Will have to play with it a bit more, but more upfront healing from lifebloom is nice on this fight atleast. Also, unless my brain is failing me, isn't it alot more than 25%?

2.47m to 3.85m is 1.38m more bloom healing which equates to around 55-60%?

[Elumaria]

Velhari mythic [...] I also went with NV on the tries without glyph, but have since gone with hotw since I feel its better.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that NV does not work at all past phase 1 because of the reduced-HP-Aura (just like it didn't at Malkorok in SoO).
So Heart really is our only choice here.

[Teramelle]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that NV does not work at all past phase 1 because of the reduced-HP-Aura (just like it didn't at Malkorok in SoO).
So Heart really is our only choice here.

May I ask why Nature's Vigil wouldn't work with that aura? I didn't play when SoO was current content, so I'm unsure how Malkorok would've affected it.

[Leaful]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that NV does not work at all past phase 1 because of the reduced-HP-Aura (just like it didn't at Malkorok in SoO).
So Heart really is our only choice here.

Heart of the Wild should be your choice on every encounter, it's far superior than Nature's Vigil =P

[Hypasonic]

Yeah, I mean NV did such little healing that hotw is the only real choice.

[Ladyoftheforest]

Is a Soul of the Forest - DOC -MOC build a laughing matter or does it has any merit?

[Hypasonic]

No real synergy between those talents, DOC is already considered sub-optimal and MOC is just an RNG talent that forces you to stand and spam regrowths when it procs so I'm not a fan of it.