I hired new graduates and I want to share some experiences and give advice!

[Ayla]

yeah..I had 2 people over my shoulder while I was at the computer trying to create what they needed me to create. Nerve wracking is an understatement.

but this was also the company with a HR that said "You think you'll be ok here? Weve had issues with women before".

Im sure my reply would be along the lines of

'I know, my breasts are glorious. But I dont think theyll be a huge problem. Anime characters have way bigger ones'.

[Kasierith]

It's painful for me to watch the people who get anxious doing the skills test portion of the interview. I don't know about other interviewers, but I'm not bothered by someone showing their nerves during these moments, because you are in a job interview after all. I try to reassure the person that I'm not necessarily looking for the right answer, and that I just want to see how they go about thinking about the problem. Honestly, I've been debating a bit if I'm just asking too much there.

But from the perspective of the person to be tested, I dunno. I don't think there's a silver bullet to help with anxiety, aside from just being really prepared.

Xanax 0.5mg taken 30 minutes prior to stressful activity. Fairly common for younger actors with stage fight, relatively; just takes a working relationship with a physician.

[Reeve]

Xanax 0.5mg taken 30 minutes prior to stressful activity. Fairly common for younger actors with stage fight, relatively; just takes a working relationship with a physician.

I wonder if that's what happened with the last person I interviewed. I swore she was about to fall asleep at any minute, she was so excessively chill, eyelids drooped, etc.

[Independent voter]

I just throw out the fist 10 interviews every time I job search. I just tell myself they are going to be terrible, I'll make a ton of mistakes but once those 10 are behind me I can't start interviewing for real.

[Emjay18]

"Help I can't get recent grads to take bullshit from my company for free"

[belfpala]

I wonder if that's what happened with the last person I interviewed. I swore she was about to fall asleep at any minute, she was so excessively chill, eyelids drooped, etc.

It's somewhat common in the business world to "abuse" beta blockers (link). Especially before giving a big presentation.

Hell, even in the student world. I knew people who took them before final exams.

[Kasierith]

It's somewhat common in the business world to "abuse" beta blockers (link). Especially before giving a big presentation.

Hell, even in the student world. I knew people who took them before final exams.

Maybe propranolol, but a lot of the beta blockers don't have the mechanisms necessary to induce that sort of response.

[Deleted]

I want to thank everyone for flooding me with messages, both positive and negative

I want to hook in on what was said earlier about Excel. If there is a skill that can set you apart from almost everyone else it's a high level of Excel skills!
Seriously, hardly anyone, young or old, seems to be able to work with Excel sheets on a decent level.

[Strear]

The matter, these past years, on the IT field, is employers want you to know everything, in too many fields, databases, programming, systems, network ...
Another matter (I hope it's only here in my country), is that so much is decided on " diploma " matters. It's some kind of (bad) filter. No matter how good you are, how self-educated you are (VERY underrated here), if you're not " engineer " something, they won't even receive you.

Sometimes, I had some rookies who came from another field and had a very basic IT diploma, I gave them a try. They were hungry, fresh, innovating, had great ideas, were ready to start from zero, and were just good in the job. Sometimes I had highly skilled people who weren't able to understand simple things, everything was overly complicated and time consuming. We often tend to under estimate a persons potential, by just referring to his/her diplomas. Long ago, our elders tended to train people from zero for a job, the person was shaped with the company's way of working. Now we want everything " quick and now ".

Could you try with your guts and feelings to hire someone who has potential/little experience/little diploma but maybe not the 4/5 years diploma ?

[Deleted]

The matter, these past years, on the IT field, is employers want you to know everything, in too many fields, databases, programming, systems, network ...
Another matter (I hope it's only here in my country), is that so much is decided on " diploma " matters. It's some kind of (bad) filter. No matter how good you are, how self-educated you are (VERY underrated here), if you're not " engineer " something, they won't even receive you.

Sometimes, I had some rookies who came from another field and had a very basic IT diploma, I gave them a try. They were hungry, fresh, innovating, had great ideas, were ready to start from zero, and were just good in the job. Sometimes I had highly skilled people who weren't able to understand simple things, everything was overly complicated and time consuming. We often tend to under estimate a persons potential, by just referring to his/her diplomas. Long ago, our elders tended to train people from zero for a job, the person was shaped with the company's way of working. Now we want everything " quick and now ".

Could you try with your guts and feelings to hire someone who has potential/little experience/little diploma but maybe not the 4/5 years diploma ?

If you're ever struggling to get a job in tech (particularly development) in France it might be an idea to explore moving to London if it's possible under your circumstances.

We have arguably the most booming tech scene in the world right now, a chronic shortage of developers, heavy investment into the industry, usually silo by specific skill instead of expect people to be "jack of all trades" and we also don't buy into the myth of "must have comp sci degree" that seems prevalent in certain other cities (in fact 60% of developers in London have no formal education)

Believe me when I say if you start looking for a job in development in London - you'll have one within 2 weeks no matter what level you're at.

[Deleted]

I really hope you severed your ties with your family then, and not mooch of the wealth they made exploiting others.

Would be a tad hypocritical if you didn't, considering your philosophical and political views.

If you are left-wing and poor it is because you are lazy stupid etc.

If you are left-wing and successful you are a hypocrite.

Make up your fucking minds.

[Slant]

To the employers of the thread: Sure, it's great that you look at dedication and the integrity of the candidate rather than if they have a degree. But in reality, if you're applying for a job at a medium to large sized company, you're going to need a degree and especially with online applications. If you don't have a degree on your CV you're often not even considered and whittled out due to the huge amount of applications per job.

This is the sad truth. And we all know it. A degree doesn't serve to impress anyone who show how qualified you are. The only reason you make that degree is for you to pass the automated entry test in an application process. The part where some douche without any decision making authority gets told to open all letters and trash those that don't have the right degree or some other stuff that is deemed to be necessary on the CV. This starts in medium sized businesses already, it's not just large corps.

How does everyone feel about investing a large chunk of money only to get past the douche-trash test? You'll still need to actually impress anyone with all the other glorious stuff you've got... wait, you haven't? You thought a degree was worth shit? Oops, sorry... no we're actually looking for a PhD in law (at least cum laude) with a specialisation in tax laws, three languages (two fluently), 2-3 years working experience (plus if abroad).. oh and you should be under 28.

Yes, that is the actual job offer description I've read somewhere... It's easily doable. But honest to god, I know nobody who could make those criterias. Not one person.

[Deleted]

The matter, these past years, on the IT field, is employers want you to know everything, in too many fields, databases, programming, systems, network ...
Another matter (I hope it's only here in my country), is that so much is decided on " diploma " matters. It's some kind of (bad) filter. No matter how good you are, how self-educated you are (VERY underrated here), if you're not " engineer " something, they won't even receive you.

Yeah I can totally relate with that, reading the jobs offers in IT, I face-palm everytime I see how many different skills are asked for people fresh out of school. I think it's the only field where you basically should know how to do 5 different jobs just to get into one.

It's also true concerning the diploma although it really depends what you are aiming for, but any job which is not basic programming / web development will require at least a Master's Degree. I'm currently finishing my Master's Degree and I'm actually really scared that I won't find a job in the field that I want because the IT market is so shitty in France.

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If you're ever struggling to get a job in tech (particularly development) in France it might be an idea to explore moving to London if it's possible under your circumstances.

We have arguably the most booming tech scene in the world right now, a chronic shortage of developers, heavy investment into the industry, usually silo by specific skill instead of expect people to be "jack of all trades" and we also don't buy into the myth of "must have comp sci degree" that seems prevalent in certain other cities (in fact 60% of developers in London have no formal education)

Believe me when I say if you start looking for a job in development in London - you'll have one within 2 weeks no matter what level you're at.

Do you have any idea of the state of the job market in Data (As in Data Science/Big Data) ? Do you think it would be possible for a french guy fresh out of school with a Master's Degree to try finding a job in London even without much experience ?

[Strear]

If you're ever struggling to get a job in tech (particularly development) in France it might be an idea to explore moving to London if it's possible under your circumstances.

We have arguably the most booming tech scene in the world right now, a chronic shortage of developers, heavy investment into the industry, usually silo by specific skill instead of expect people to be "jack of all trades" and we also don't buy into the myth of "must have comp sci degree" that seems prevalent in certain other cities (in fact 60% of developers in London have no formal education)

Believe me when I say if you start looking for a job in development in London - you'll have one within 2 weeks no matter what level you're at.

Mikesglory, I'm glad to read that, if I was younger, I would give it a try ! I'm glad some european (if you allow me to call UK european ) finally found out there was a better way, and a reasonable one ! I truly hope we'll get inspiration before the roastbeefs eat all the IT potential cake

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Yeah I can totally relate with that, reading the jobs offers in IT, I face-palm everytime I see how many different skills are asked for people fresh out of school. I think it's the only field where you basically should know how to do 5 different jobs just to get into one.

It's also true concerning the diploma although it really depends what you are aiming for, but any job which is not basic programming / web development will require at least a Master's Degree. I'm currently finishing my Master's Degree and I'm actually really scared that I won't find a job in the field that I want because the IT market is so shitty in France.

I understand your fears Sad. The vast majority of the jobs are applied using a network. Students network, colleagues, relationships ... I work in the IT in a very specific field (military warfare and electronic warfare), but there are good careers in many companies we work with (Thales, Airbus civil and Airbus Defense). If you " just need " a first experience, I have some contacts here (Gard) I might give you (We don't hire anyone for now), not that I know you, but eh, we're on the MMO-Champion network

If you're interested, PM me.

[ldev]

So basically you want to attract above average graduates and expect them to learn (= work) for you in their spare time for a company with no reputation/history.

What do you offer in return? above average expectations require above average compensation. I'm hoping at the very very least you pay for the education they do in their spare time?

I had my fair share of participating in interviews and we also got a lot of people like OP mentioned to junior developer positions. They are not above average, they are losers, lol.

'hei guis i has diploma and was near profesor wen he talked relevant stuf, i think'
'and now i wants work becuz its high pay and i sit in office and i know loops and if statements and php and java and html'.

[Deleted]

Do you have any idea of the state of the job market in Data (As in Data Science/Big Data) ? Do you think it would be possible for a french guy fresh out of school with a Master's Degree to try finding a job in London even without much experience ?

Depends what you're looking to do exactly, the field of big data is so varied (and doesn't necessarily overlap with data science) that there's always going to be something you can explore. Also it's worth noting that particularly the engineering side of "big data" is so recent and currently undergoing such a rapid boom that almost all companies hiring into the field happily cross-train people with the basic aptitudes (because people with previous experience basically don't exist yet).

If I was you right now I'd send an exploratory message to (or call HR for the bigger firms) the following list with a brief bit of info about your situation and to discuss how they go around hiring.

https://www.siliconmilkroundabout.com/companies (filter by big data/data science or a specific technology, a lot more companies will join this list over the coming weeks as the event is still a month away)

Also worth chatting to ANY very large corporate (particularly in the financial sector), they'll almost certainly be undergoing some form of big data project right now.

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I had my fair share of participating in interviews and we also got a lot of people like OP mentioned to junior developer positions. They are not above average, they are losers, lol.

'hei guis i has diploma and was near profesor wen he talked relevant stuf, i think'
'and now i wants work becuz its high pay and i sit in office and i know loops and if statements and php and java and html'.

Dare I say - I find people applying for development roles with comp sci degrees and no additional experience (freelance while studying / contribute to open source projects / actually build something that's not related to your degree / etc) usually can't hold a candle to self-taught developers.

Comp Sci degrees are brilliant - but 90% of what you study is unlikely to be used in your day to day role and it's important that alongside your academic education you also get practical experience. Make small apps for your own use, make small apps to sell, contribute to open source projects, build portfolio sites for your friends, make a damn blog etc. Someone who comes out of university with a comp sci degree and nothing else often has very little actual use and has been studying from resources that are almost certainly 2-5 years out of date.

[ldev]

Dare I say - I find people applying for development roles with comp sci degrees and no additional experience (freelance while studying / contribute to open source projects / actually build something that's not related to your degree / etc) usually can't hold a candle to self-taught developers.

Comp Sci degrees are brilliant - but 90% of what you study is unlikely to be used in your day to day role and it's important that alongside your academic education you also get practical experience. Make small apps for your own use, make small apps to sell, contribute to open source projects, build portfolio sites for your friends, make a damn blog etc. Someone who comes out of university with a comp sci degree and nothing else often has very little actual use.

Ha, totally.

Self taught developers don't know all obscure data structures, obscure "standart" algorithms, because when writing apps that do real shit, they never needed them. And they won't need them in professional line of work. But they know MVC, DI, unit testing, etc for technology they're going to work with.

Relevant comp sci degree would be like bio it, when you'll work with DNA sequences and write highly specialized DNA sequencer or w/e, but most developers don't do this kind of work.

They also feel less privileged than 'omg i has diploma ima specialist', in junior positions they shut up and listen (sometimes give suggestions based on real own project experience), and not go "omg that's <random data structure/pattern> and professor told us not to use it" and waste everyone's time with their theoretical 'knowledge' that works in uni, but not in real world.

And one more thing I like - they learnt themselves, so it's guaranteed they can and will learn more relevant stuff, not because professor told them to learn X.

[Guyv3r]

I usually have the same problem with people i interview to my company (IT).

Out of 10 candidates, 1 might be a "decent" choice. Thats the average i get. Most of them have the wrong attitude and know next to nothing besides the crap they teach at universities.

I prefer to grab fresh and complete rookies with the correct attitude (willingness to learn new skills, get out of their confort zone) then those peskie graduates who think they know how to manage applications because they know the theory!

[ldev]

If you're ever struggling to get a job in tech (particularly development) in France it might be an idea to explore moving to London if it's possible under your circumstances.

We have arguably the most booming tech scene in the world right now, a chronic shortage of developers, heavy investment into the industry, usually silo by specific skill instead of expect people to be "jack of all trades" and we also don't buy into the myth of "must have comp sci degree" that seems prevalent in certain other cities (in fact 60% of developers in London have no formal education)

Believe me when I say if you start looking for a job in development in London - you'll have one within 2 weeks no matter what level you're at.

Isn't that like the most of the world? Half a year ago I quit my work after working for 2+ years with banking systems - everything's, ofcourse, very conservative, but worst part was the Microsoft Cult. Database? Only MS SQL. ORM? EntityFramework, duh. Deployment, helper scripts? PowerShell, obviously. Web services? WCF, no questions asked (god I hate wcf, overengineered overly enterprisy unyeldy slow huge garbage). Build system? Well ofcourse msbuild. Source control? Yep, TFS. Chat software? Lync, Slack is for hipsters. Server OS? Why, Windows Sever. And so on and so on. Last drop was when we needed fuzzy text search on a lot of columns, etc. Solution - well MS SQL has full text search, so we'll go with that, running on our main database which was already pushing 16 cores to 80% usage... Elasticsearch is for hipsters. /godfuckingdammit

Real time with websockets or SPA with Angular/ReactJS on front end - no no, we have to support IE 7. Most fuss was about using crypto secure random number generator to generate temporary 9 digit username, that will get changed on next login /wrist

So I've quit without 'securing' any job prior, took 3 week vacation, after three weeks started to look for a job - accepted 15 job interviews, turned down like twice that, 4th (hellish...) week was for interviews, and on 5th week started working.

job security over 9000

And looking at fresh IT graduates - it will remain for a very very long time... 'cuz i has diploma and i spit on cashiers/other low skill workfoce dat im 2 gud 4, cuz i has diploma i is smart!!!!!'

"Help I can't get recent grads to take bullshit from my company for free"

Unemployed fresh graduate spotted.

[Deleted]

Depends what you're looking to do exactly, the field of big data is so varied (and doesn't necessarily overlap with data science) that there's always going to be something you can explore. Also it's worth noting that particularly the engineering side of "big data" is so recent and currently undergoing such a rapid boom that almost all companies hiring into the field happily cross-train people with the basic aptitudes (because people with previous experience basically don't exist yet).

If I was you right now I'd send an exploratory message to (or call HR for the bigger firms) the following list with a brief bit of info about your situation and to discuss how they go around hiring.

https://www.siliconmilkroundabout.com/companies (filter by big data/data science or a specific technology, a lot more companies will join this list over the coming weeks as the event is still a month away)

Also worth chatting to ANY very large corporate (particularly in the financial sector), they'll almost certainly be undergoing some form of big data project right now.

Thank you very much, I'll look into it.
I don't know about the UK and especially London, but in France everybody and their family is talking about the revolution of Big Data and Data Science in the industry, but in the end when you take the time to search for actual jobs, you find almost nothing because most companies have no idea how to start and are afraid to launch costly projects.
Anyway I'll try to contact some in London, maybe I'll have better feedback.