All Hail Raptor Shaman

[Volitar]

The buffs you bring are now counted as your DPS in logs. You just do it through other players I guess.

[Elbruho]

ohhhhh myyyyy gaaaawd! can't wait to try this out! ermgerd

[nazrakin]

The idea in Legion is that shaman and paladin gives away around 10% of their damage to another player. Something with the idea that these classes are supposed to be "buffers". It's great if you want that raidspot you didn't get last expantion but you'll end up at the bottom of the DPS charts and you'll only be take along for the buff.
It was a bad idea in vanilla and it sounds just as bad in Legion. Not sure what Blizzard is trying to do but it does not sound fun to me.

Thats not at all how that works. Stormlash is a proc that buffs the Shaman and/or his group members that causes attacks to deal nature damage. 100% of the damage deal is attributed to the Shaman, the group member gets no benefit from it at all besides the little graphic indicating that he has the buff. Its not utility and definitely not something that'll win you a raidspot.

[Imnick]

The idea that "Raids will bring Shamans for Stormlash" and "Shamans will be tuned down because of Stormlash" are mutually exclusive.
If Stormlash ups group DPS, then players would bring Shamans for it, but if Shaman DPS was tuned down to compensate, then there would then be no benefit, so they wouldn't.

[nazrakin]

The idea that "Raids will bring Shamans for Stormlash" and "Shamans will be tuned down because of Stormlash" are mutually exclusive.
If Stormlash ups group DPS, then players would bring Shamans for it, but if Shaman DPS was tuned down to compensate, then there would then be no benefit, so they wouldn't.

Blizzard has said that Shaman will be balanced accordingly for the effect, which is why logs will award its damage directly to the Shaman. Its a way for Blizzard to sell the "class fantasy" of Enh buffing the group without the headache having to tune it as true utility.

[Imnick]

Blizzard has said that Shaman will be balanced accordingly for the effect, which is why logs will award its damage directly to the Shaman. Its a way for Blizzard to sell the "class fantasy" of Enh buffing the group without the headache having to tune it as true utility.

I know, but what I am saying is that if a Shaman's DPS is decreased in proportion to the DPS increase, then they are not bringing a group benefit and thus there is no particular reason every raid group would want a Shaman around to provide Stormlash.
Either you can say "Shamans will be brought for Stormlash" or "Shaman DPS will be lowered in proportion to Stormlash", but not both.

[nazrakin]

I know, but what I am saying is that if a Shaman's DPS is decreased in proportion to the DPS increase, then they are not bringing a group benefit and thus there is no particular reason every raid group would want a Shaman around to provide Stormlash.
Either you can say "Shamans will be brought for Stormlash" or "Shaman DPS will be lowered in proportion to Stormlash", but not both.

Yeah, Im saying that what we know so far suggests that its the latter.

[Imnick]

Ah I see where the confusion came from.

The idea in Legion is that shaman and paladin gives away around 10% of their damage to another player. Something with the idea that these classes are supposed to be "buffers". It's great if you want that raidspot you didn't get last expantion but you'll end up at the bottom of the DPS charts and you'll only be take along for the buff.

I was replying to the sentiment in this post, not in yours :P

[Aggrophobic]

Blizzard has said that Shaman will be balanced accordingly for the effect, which is why logs will award its damage directly to the Shaman. Its a way for Blizzard to sell the "class fantasy" of Enh buffing the group without the headache having to tune it as true utility.

Thats not how it works right now though. Lets hope Blizzard will fix that though.
It's going to be a bitch to track and make good use of if the buff scales with the shamans gear and it's going to be super annoying if it scales with another player as your DPS will be in the hands of another player.

I'm not seeing how this is a good thing at all.

[Glassmage]

Man, this would be almost the perfect kind of fluff for shamans. If they could tie achievements to different ghost animal forms I would lose my mind.

[nazrakin]

Thats not how it works right now though. Lets hope Blizzard will fix that though.
It's going to be a bitch to track and make good use of if the buff scales with the shamans gear and it's going to be super annoying if it scales with another player as your DPS will be in the hands of another player.

I'm not seeing how this is a good thing at all.

What do you mean? Thats exactly how it is currently working. Its a flat damage proc, you have zero control over it, and the damage shows up for the Shaman. There is no reason whatsoever to track the buff or "make good use of it".

[Putin-Chan]

I'd like to see a glyph like this for more races' representative creatures/racial mounts for spirit animal spells,
so far, we have orcs and trolls, here's a list of what I'd like to see, any flying ones would act like flying hunter pets by flying near to the ground:

Orc- Wolf, boar, or talbuk
Troll- Raptor or bat
Tauren- Kodo, plainstrider, or lion
Goblin- Zero clue, monkey, or gorilla?
Dwarf- Bear, Ram, or eagle
Draenei- Talbuk or Elekk, maybe warp stalker?
Pandaren- Tiger, cloud serpent, or yak

[Futhark]

Dwarf Shaman are Wildhammer, and anyone who has done any Wildhammer quest knows there is no other choice than Gryphon.

[Mueller Greyhound]

Orc: Wolves
Troll: Raptors
Tauren: Kodo
Goblin: Rocket Cars
Dwarf: Ram
Draenei: Elekk
Pandaren: Turtles

[Samesnotatroll]

Really? Shaman seems pretty horrible to me with the hybrid tax and all. Ah well.

The hybrid tax you speak of has been long since removed, there was a blue post years ago about that mate.

- - - Updated - - -

Shamans have had a hybrid tax since vanilla. What really has pissed me off is the fact that Paladins are a hybrid and rets dominate the meters in BiS gear, Lazer chickens are hybrids and they can dominate the meters as feral or boomy. It has been this way since the dawn of time. Shamans have always been blizzards toilet paper class. We are less of a hybrid than pallies and lazer chickens(they tank, heal and DPS) and we have always gotten the shaft.

Thankfully i am seeing some good numbers for shaman in legion. I think they have finally decided to fix us. I know they have not done a final numbers pass or even a final talent and skills pass, but for now we are looking relatively strong

The hybrid tax was removed some time ago, was a blue post about it years ago.

- - - Updated - - -

We have zero idea if that's even a thing at this point, considering the stormlash damage will be counted toward the shaman anyway. But even if we came off slighly worse, i'm not bothered. I don't play at the cutting edge Mythic level, so i can take a few percent of a drop in damage in some aspects of the game. I value actual enjoyment over shit like that.

We do know, the hybrid tax was real, in a blue post it was confirmed that it has been long since removed. This was back in Cata I believe?

[Imnick]

They are talking about a new "Hybrid Tax", brought into existence by the addition of the ability "Stormlash".
Stormlash buffs three of you and/or some party members every so often, increasing their damage output. As this damage is attributed to the Shaman, it means that your personal damage output will be reduced to compensate for this additional damage.
It also implies that, unless the proc can appear multiple times on yourself, Shamans may do less damage solo than in group content.

The term "hybrid tax" probably isn't the right words to use, but it is a similar principle.
Because Enhancement Shamans provide this specific group buff, their personal damage will be reduced to compensate.

[Thrif]

ALAN!

10chars

[High-Chief Greathoof]

Troll Shamans have been fully realized. Ghost Raptor Form, Spirit Raptors, and Compy Hex.

[Samesnotatroll]

Damn you, I thought I had insider info for once! I did see the stormlash thing, but my mind never thought of it as a "hybrid tax". I think of the 5% less damage in the coefficient for formulating spell damage. This is more of a "hybrid fee" get real guys. =p

- - - Updated - - -

They are talking about a new "Hybrid Tax", brought into existence by the addition of the ability "Stormlash".
Stormlash buffs three of you and/or some party members every so often, increasing their damage output. As this damage is attributed to the Shaman, it means that your personal damage output will be reduced to compensate for this additional damage.
It also implies that, unless the proc can appear multiple times on yourself, Shamans may do less damage solo than in group content.

The term "hybrid tax" probably isn't the right words to use, but it is a similar principle.
Because Enhancement Shamans provide this specific group buff, their personal damage will be reduced to compensate.

Damn you, I thought I had insider info for once! I did see the stormlash thing, but my mind never thought of it as a "hybrid tax". I think of the 5% less damage in the coefficient for formulating spell/ability damage. This is more of a "hybrid fee" get real guys. =p

[Nefarious Tea]

Clever girl...

I am super disappointed it took five responses for this to show up.