Monks could really use some utility in PvE.

[Saverem]

Right now Monks are one of the worst (if not THE worst) class on utility.

BrMs have the least utility out of all the tanks. Looks like Ox statue is the only useful utility ability they get.

Suggestion: Zen Meditation is pure shit right now, especially for a 5m CD ability. Turn it into a raid ability. Bake in the PvP talent 'Guided Meditation' as default with it. This will give BrMs enough utility to be useful and will warrant its 5m CD.


MW has Life Cocoon (I'll count it as utility since it also increases everyone's HoT on the target) and Revival.

Suggestion: Make Mana Tea baseline and have the talent turn Mana Tea into Innervate, making it possible for you to give tea to raid members.


WW has no utility, whatsoever. I don't play WW, so don't know what to suggest. Maybe a raid wide damage mitigation ability.

[Conformed]

Wouldn't the 25% movement speed legendary for WW be insane utility?

[Saverem]

Wouldn't the 25% movement speed legendary for WW be insane utility?

What are you referring to?

[Babylonius]

What are you referring to?

March of the Legion is, not all that arguably, the best overall raid Legendary in the game. WW provides a passive 10% movement speed bonus to all targets in 10 yards that lasts for 10s after leaving the range of the WW. Its a decent amount of movement speed, considering in previous expansions, 7% and 8% boot enchants were mandatory for raidand people lived or died by them. Plus, there will be no cloak enchants with movement speed in Legion. Adding an additional 15% movement speed, for 25% total, is absolutely overpowered, and is something that no class brings anything close to. It will allow melee to pretty much never have to worry about the boss being faster, allow all raiders to move in and out of raid mechanics faster and easier.

It doesn't have a quantifiable benefit, but it will make raiding with a WW significantly different form raiding without.

[Saverem]

March of the Legion is, not all that arguably, the best overall raid Legendary in the game. WW provides a passive 10% movement speed bonus to all targets in 10 yards that lasts for 10s after leaving the range of the WW. Its a decent amount of movement speed, considering in previous expansions, 7% and 8% boot enchants were mandatory for raidand people lived or died by them. Plus, there will be no cloak enchants with movement speed in Legion. Adding an additional 15% movement speed, for 25% total, is absolutely overpowered, and is something that no class brings anything close to. It will allow melee to pretty much never have to worry about the boss being faster, allow all raiders to move in and out of raid mechanics faster and easier.

It doesn't have a quantifiable benefit, but it will make raiding with a WW significantly different form raiding without.

Perma 25% run speed does sound pretty good (guessing it isn't stackable with run speed enchants). They'll need a Legendary item to do it, but I'll give it to them.

What about BrM and MW? Do they have anything similar?

[plato13]

i agree. was queueing as tank on my monk, wich i usualy only play as heal, becouse the dungeon invite was too long. it was the worst experience i had in a long time. the aoe tanking is painfull and cds arent useful for low dungeons.

[Saverem]

i agree. was queueing as tank on my monk, wich i usualy only play as heal, becouse the dungeon invite was too long. it was the worst experience i had in a long time. the aoe tanking is painfull and cds arent useful for low dungeons.

In terms of rotations, I find them to be pretty fun. But they do have to work twice as hard as the other tanks to achieve the same or less mitigation.

An analogy on BrMs is that they are like a manual transmission Jeep Wrangler. If you like putting in the work for shifting gears and stuff, then it's a pretty good off roader. Where as tanks like BDKs/VDHs are like an automatic Hummer. They can go off road just as well (or better) than a Wrangler, plus are a lot easier to drive being automatics.


I personally enjoy putting in the extra work on the BrM (and I drive a manual), but I just wish the extra effort translated into better mitigation being rewarded. Right now, if you play perfectly, and use ISB/PB at the right times and have perfect rotations, the best you can hope for is to be equal to a VDH that is pressing 2 buttons on rotation.

[Arachnofiend]

So after a long time of lurking, I'm making my first post to specifically ask about Cenedril, Reflector of Hatred. Can't post a link since I'm new, unfortunately.

Now admittedly I am pretty new to Windwalker, having just switched from Enhancement for Legion, but am I reading this right? Because if I'm reading this right a Monk with this cape can cheese a mechanic that would kill them twice and add that damage to their DPS meters. That seems to be pretty exceptional in terms of raid utility.

[Babylonius]

So after a long time of lurking, I'm making my first post to specifically ask about Cenedril, Reflector of Hatred. Can't post a link since I'm new, unfortunately.

Now admittedly I am pretty new to Windwalker, having just switched from Enhancement for Legion, but am I reading this right? Because if I'm reading this right a Monk with this cape can cheese a mechanic that would kill them twice and add that damage to their DPS meters. That seems to be pretty exceptional in terms of raid utility.

Yes, it can certainly be used that way.

[Jaigar]

WW windwalking utility cannot be overstated. On fights like xhul, even 10% adds enough to compensate for some ppls slow reaction time or lag. BrM has some issues in the pre patch, but i dont know how it will work out with artifact traits

[Kiradyn]

Less utility than Demon Hunters?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

They have stuns, insane mobility, aoe speed boost, and insane AOE as WW. They have all they need to be top tier in 5 mans, and useful in raids.

[Supliftz]

utility is the biggest healer circlejerk in legion.

[Xiaojin]

As I wrote in this post I don't think Monks lack utility (I wrote mostly about WW, but BrM and MW have their own utility options as well). You have stuns, mobility (which you can even give to others via Tiger's Lust), really good damage reduction cooldowns (even after the nerfs), Life Cocoon and Revival are really strong CDs despite the hate they always and more via talents in the various specs. Yes, Monk utility is not as simple as "spec into Cheat Death, walk into specific location when told by boss mod, then return to DPSing". But you can still do a lot of things as a Monk that really help your raid if necessary.

[Tenant]

I was having similar thoughts about WW utility as well, though I didn't know the Windwalking aura was so highly valued; that's definitely good to know.

[Deleted]

Suggestion: Make Mana Tea baseline and have the talent turn Mana Tea into Innervate, making it possible for you to give tea to raid members.

Well we would probably still use it for ourselves so it doesnt matter much Kappa.

[infinitemeridian]

I was having similar thoughts about WW utility as well, though I didn't know the Windwalking aura was so highly valued; that's definitely good to know.

I don't think it is to be honest. Druids and Shamans offer better burst movement, which has more uses. That isn't to say it's useless, but that it pales in comparison to other specs/classes and when you take the spec as a whole and that's all it offers, it's even worse.

[Purpleisbetter]

Lot of cutting edge raiders lately...Legion race is going to be very tense!

[Babylonius]

I don't think it is to be honest. Druids and Shamans offer better burst movement, which has more uses. That isn't to say it's useless, but that it pales in comparison to other specs/classes and when you take the spec as a whole and that's all it offers, it's even worse.

Stampeding roar and totem are 60% on a 2min cooldown, WW with legendary is 25% constantly. I find it hard to think that a 2 minute cooldown has more uses than a passive. Obviously it doesn't replace the burst movement, but there are very few fights where you only have to move every 2 minutes.

What, in your opinion, consititutes WW as "even worse"?

[Deleted]

Stampeding roar and totem are 60% on a 2min cooldown, WW with legendary is 25% constantly. I find it hard to think that a 2 minute cooldown has more uses than a passive. Obviously it doesn't replace the burst movement, but there are very few fights where you only have to move every 2 minutes.

In my opinion, which of those is better completely depends on the boss design. 3 possible scenarios:

- The whole raid has to move to counter some abilities. Examples would be Blackhand or Archimonde mythic. There, roar / totem is obviously better, but it may not be possible to cover every single one of those with a roar, so it has some use.

- Single players / few players have to move due to some abilities (e.g. Xhul). Due to the nature, they usually happen a bit more often. Ideally, you cover most of those with roars, and for the rest people use their own mobility abilities, which didn't stack with Windwalking - no idea if they change that in Legion, though. So... you basically do a little for DKs here, but if people use their own abilities intelligently, the aura isn't useful for them. So, to sum that up: It's ok, definitely not useless, but its potential is limited.

- There is stuff falling down or zones to avoid constantly during the fight (e.g. many phases of Kormrok, or Hansgar / Franzok). This is where Windwalking really shines. It might take a few damage ticks away, because people are faster. It might allow them higher dps time, if there are ranged close enough. It's very hard to quantify, but it has a lot of potential.



There are some downsides, though.

- You can have multiple totems/roars, whereas Windwalking doesn't get better with more WWs. Additional WWs usually don't increase the uptime, except for some very rare big hitbox / spread melee encounters (BRF Gruul would be an example of that).

- The 10 y are in most cases not enough to reach the ranged dds.

- It takes away a legendary spot. There are a few very nice legendaries, which we can't use then. On the other hand, though, this adds an additional choice that can be made if you have multiple legendaries available. For encounters, where the 25% really make a difference, you can use that one in one of your slots. On others, you can use other legendaries.


Still, all in all, it's a nice thing to have, which also has some advantages outside of raids.