[BM] Killer Cobra question

[Thundertom]

Hey guys.

I'm pretty new to BM hunters, and I'm using the Killer Cobra talent right now.

How can I make the most out of this talent? Assuming I use BW when I have full or near full focus.

- Do I make sure Dire Beast is on CD before using BW?
- Do I cast Kill Command -> Cobra Shot until my focus is drained? Or just as Icy Veins suggest only use Cobra Shot when >90 focus?
- Do I cast Dire Beast when it procs during BW?

Also how do I use this talent in AOE situations?

- Multi ->Kill Command -> Cobra Shot -> Multishot -> Kill Command?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Hatch]

on ST basically you want to get as much KC in as possible (focus allowing) without leaving DB out of it, cause it eats a bit of cd from BW and hits like a truck(assuming you have stomp here) aswell.

AOE kinda depends on the number of targets, 2 targets it's pretty much the same as ST, more then that is basically keeping beast cleave up (lasts 4 secs) with multishot, use all possible direbeast, no cobra shots there.

There is a rotation section on the icy-veins guide that explains this.

[GokuGohan2]

Seriously, guys, have you ever used stampede properly? Killer Cobra is not better, unless you have that focus reduction legendary. Even in long fights where killer cobra should do more damage, it's worse.

I've never seen a hunter with the same ilvl do more damage using killer cobra than me, so feel free to post logs in here to prove me wrong.

[Deleted]

Top BM logs for EN (Mythic): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...c=BeastMastery
- Shows Killer Cobra clearly being better, there are some uses for Stampede on Il'gynoth and Xavius because of the sheer amount of adds.

Top BM logs for EN (Heroic): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...y&difficulty=4
- Shows Killer Cobra top across the board.

Top BM Logs for ToV (Heroic): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...y&difficulty=4
- Showing Kill Cobra top again, with some outside cases on Helya, again due to masses of adds, the same is true for the ToV Mythic logs but there aren't any Helya M kills with BM hunters yet.



As for the original question, don't use Cobra Shot in your normal rotation unless you're above 90 focus, you want to pool as much as possible. Go into BW with as much focus as possible, paying attention to when DB and KC will come off CD. Then you simply KC > CS and use DB when it comes off CD.

[GokuGohan2]

Top BM logs for EN (Mythic):



As for the original question, don't use Cobra Shot in your normal rotation unless you're above 90 focus, you want to pool as much as possible. Go into BW with as much focus as possible, paying attention to when DB and KC will come off CD. Then you simply KC > CS and use DB when it comes off CD.

Let me ask you a question then, I'm using stampede and I hit 315k DPS without prepot (only flask and food) in a steady fight like Nythendra or Ursoc, 871 ilvl with legendary boots. How much am I supposed to hit if I change to killer cobra? I fail to see it getting any higher

[Deleted]

Top BM logs for EN (Mythic): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...c=BeastMastery
- Shows Killer Cobra clearly being better, there are some uses for Stampede on Il'gynoth and Xavius because of the sheer amount of adds.

Top BM logs for EN (Heroic): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...y&difficulty=4
- Shows Killer Cobra top across the board.

Top BM Logs for ToV (Heroic): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...y&difficulty=4
- Showing Kill Cobra top again, with some outside cases on Helya, again due to masses of adds, the same is true for the ToV Mythic logs but there aren't any Helya M kills with BM hunters yet.



As for the original question, don't use Cobra Shot in your normal rotation unless you're above 90 focus, you want to pool as much as possible. Go into BW with as much focus as possible, paying attention to when DB and KC will come off CD. Then you simply KC > CS and use DB when it comes off CD.

The answer to your question is: there is no answer to your question until we know your gear and fight type/length. The general consensus is that stampede is only better in M+ if you have a kickass tank that can pull 1/2 the instance at once. Robinwood @ Twisting Nether.

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking.../10/#boss=1853
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking.../10/#boss=1841

I did 350k on Nythendra (ok parse) at 869 ilvl without any DPS legendaries.
I did 380k on Ursoc (a better parse) at 870 ilvl without any DPS legendaries.

These are both with Killer Cobra (though I run Heroic raiding only). You asked for logs so I'm just supplying data that shows you that Killer Cobra is out-performing Stampede. I know you feel like it won't go any higher based on a gut feeling, but the statistics and data show otherwise.

I have Call of the Wild now so I get an Aspect of the Wild every 2nd BW window, which will improve my Killer Cobra usage even more as I'll have more focus to work with.

[GokuGohan2]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking.../10/#boss=1853
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking.../10/#boss=1841

I did 350k on Nythendra (ok parse) at 869 ilvl without any DPS legendaries.
I did 380k on Ursoc (a better parse) at 870 ilvl without any DPS legendaries.

These are both with Killer Cobra (though I run Heroic raiding only). You asked for logs so I'm just supplying data that shows you that Killer Cobra is out-performing Stampede. I know you feel like it won't go any higher based on a gut feeling, but the statistics and data show otherwise.

I have Call of the Wild now so I get an Aspect of the Wild every 2nd BW window, which will improve my Killer Cobra usage even more as I'll have more focus to work with.

I'll give it a try, Thanks.

[Banard]

Let me ask you a question then, I'm using stampede and I hit 315k DPS without prepot (only flask and food) in a steady fight like Nythendra or Ursoc, 871 ilvl with legendary boots. How much am I supposed to hit if I change to killer cobra? I fail to see it getting any higher

Let me ask you this question...the guy link the best of the best records for BM DPS...there all using kill cobra. Why do you believe you know better then ALL of the best records?

[Kirbypro]

LoL chill out dude.

I have run with Killer Cobra since the beginning of the expansion and at no point have I felt that I needed more aoe dps. I can spec full single target and still do top aoe with CDs. However, having really good single target burst with BW+Killer Cobra is really really useful for priority mobs and its available every 45s or less. This is also why I never use Volley and always run Crows because I don't need the extra aoe from Volley but I always need more priority target damage.

[GokuGohan2]

Let me ask you this question...the guy link the best of the best records for BM DPS...there all using kill cobra. Why do you believe you know better then ALL of the best records?

I simply asked a question, why do you assume I believe I know better than* ALL of the records?

[Spiralphoenix]

I simply asked a question, why do you assume I believe I know better than* ALL of the records?

It's pretty straightforward. You replied first saying, anecdotally, that Stampede is better than killer cobra. Someone replied to you with statistic/simulation backed proof for the opposite. You reply again seemingly asking why your personal results would fit within this same conclusion, with just a random DPS number and that you "fail to see it getting any higher". This is meaningless. The question has already been answered within the proof given above. It has been simmed, real players have provided logs showing a trend supporting it. You provide no evidence for why your situation would be contrary to the simulation/proven results. If you want to see if it will get any higher, sim yourself. If you see that Stampede is higher, congrats, you've shown actual evidence against the proof above. If not, then... that is why we have reached this point in this discussion.

[GokuGohan2]

It's pretty straightforward. You replied first saying, anecdotally, that Stampede is better than killer cobra. Someone replied to you with statistic/simulation backed proof for the opposite. You reply again seemingly asking why your personal results would fit within this same conclusion, with just a random DPS number and that you "fail to see it getting any higher". This is meaningless. The question has already been answered within the proof given above. It has been simmed, real players have provided logs showing a trend supporting it. You provide no evidence for why your situation would be contrary to the simulation/proven results. If you want to see if it will get any higher, sim yourself. If you see that Stampede is higher, congrats, you've shown actual evidence against the proof above. If not, then... that is why we have reached this point in this discussion.

Dude, I asked a simple question. I wasn't trying to prove my point, I actually wanted to know how my DPS would be with properly usage of killer cobra, because the logs he showed before are from the top players in the world, with the best equips, and I don't fit in there

I legit wanted to know how my DPS should look with 870 ilvl. That's fucking all. I did not tried to prove my point. Why is it so hard to believe that I actually wanted to learn something? I didn't ask the question to prove I'm right, I asked it to fucking know if my dps was shit and the players i've played with are even worse, or I was using killer cobra wrong.

[Trapped]

Dude, I asked a simple question. I wasn't trying to prove my point, I actually wanted to know how my DPS would be with properly usage of killer cobra, because the logs he showed before are from the top players in the world, with the best equips, and I don't fit in there

I legit wanted to know how my DPS should look with 870 ilvl. That's fucking all. I did not tried to prove my point. Why is it so hard to believe that I actually wanted to learn something? I didn't ask the question to prove I'm right, I asked it to fucking know if my dps was shit and the players i've played with are even worse, or I was using killer cobra wrong.

Most people (not all) come to the forums to argue points and try to get everyone to say, "Yeah OP, I agree with you." Its a tough crowd, its the internet, but I get your point. People aren't used to legit questions on here, they're always looking for an underlying assumption to go along with it :P

[Tharkkun]

Dude, I asked a simple question. I wasn't trying to prove my point, I actually wanted to know how my DPS would be with properly usage of killer cobra, because the logs he showed before are from the top players in the world, with the best equips, and I don't fit in there

I legit wanted to know how my DPS should look with 870 ilvl. That's fucking all. I did not tried to prove my point. Why is it so hard to believe that I actually wanted to learn something? I didn't ask the question to prove I'm right, I asked it to fucking know if my dps was shit and the players i've played with are even worse, or I was using killer cobra wrong.

Honestly the best thing to do is to run simcraft on yourself. With legendaries and trinkets in the mix it's very hard to give an accurate answer on where your DPS should be.

[Thundertom]

on ST basically you want to get as much KC in as possible (focus allowing) without leaving DB out of it, cause it eats a bit of cd from BW and hits like a truck(assuming you have stomp here) aswell.

AOE kinda depends on the number of targets, 2 targets it's pretty much the same as ST, more then that is basically keeping beast cleave up (lasts 4 secs) with multishot, use all possible direbeast, no cobra shots there.

There is a rotation section on the icy-veins guide that explains this.

I know about the icy veins guide, but it didn't mention how to properly AOE with BW with the Killer Cobra talent.

Judging by your reply I should save BW for single target DPS mostly, when I have taken the Killer Cobra talent. I should probably pick Stampede for AOE heavy fights.

As for all the other replies; I'm not trying to be the best BM hunter ever, I want to know how to use my shit properly. It also doesn't matter to me if BM isn't the best spec out there, I just enjoy playing it, which is my primary goal playing the hunter.

Thanks!

[jaimelannister]

Dude, I asked a simple question. I wasn't trying to prove my point, I actually wanted to know how my DPS would be with properly usage of killer cobra, because the logs he showed before are from the top players in the world, with the best equips, and I don't fit in there

I legit wanted to know how my DPS should look with 870 ilvl. That's fucking all. I did not tried to prove my point. Why is it so hard to believe that I actually wanted to learn something? I didn't ask the question to prove I'm right, I asked it to fucking know if my dps was shit and the players i've played with are even worse, or I was using killer cobra wrong.

This right here...

Seriously, guys, have you ever used stampede properly? Killer Cobra is not better, unless you have that focus reduction legendary. Even in long fights where killer cobra should do more damage, it's worse.

I've never seen a hunter with the same ilvl do more damage using killer cobra than me, so feel free to post logs in here to prove me wrong.

...is not a question. You came into this thread stating that Killer Cobra is worse than Stampede, and then you get all bent out of shape when people correct you? Stop trying to play the victim as if you "asked a simple question" when that's not what you did at all.

[Zmaniac17]

I'll give it a try, Thanks.

KC is better. But don't expect the kind of results Vertex- has unless you have a raid that can kill the boss in less than 2 or 3 minutes . If it takes longer then you will spend much less time relative to him under the effects of major cd's like heroism and dps potion and bw. The best way to figure it out is to sim it.

[Kaolin]

I also had wondered about whether or not I should DB while BW was up. I currently have the belt and the ring. Having to use a gcd to cast DB instead of KC seems like a dps loss in the short term but possibly over the course of the fight if it might even out by getting more BW out. Seems like a hard thing to sim since its RNG. Sometimes I could get no procs and sometimes I could get 2 inside a BW window.

[Thundertom]

I also had wondered about whether or not I should DB while BW was up. I currently have the belt and the ring. Having to use a gcd to cast DB instead of KC seems like a dps loss in the short term but possibly over the course of the fight if it might even out by getting more BW out. Seems like a hard thing to sim since its RNG. Sometimes I could get no procs and sometimes I could get 2 inside a BW window.

Yeah still hoping for a reply on that one and the aoe bit instead of bickering about who said what lol