I am surprised how quickly Mythic Xavius goes down...

[dnicks17]

Is it true that M-Cen is like a crap ton harder than M-Xav?

I think my guild had somewhere around 120 wipes on Cenarius and 6 on Xavius.

[Halobob87]

Well, if u wanna list bosses difficulty on progression (so, before overgear, nerfs, ecc):

Helya>>>>>>>>>>> Guarm= Cenarius > Odyn > Evil tree >>> Dragons > Ursoc = Elerethe > Xavius >/= Nythendra

Imho obv.

[Kosy]

That's how our guild usually clears ENm:
Nyth - 1 pull
Ursoc - 1 pull
Ele - 1-2 pulls
Dragons - 1-2 pulls
Ilginoth - 10-15 pulls
Cenarius - 1-3 pulls
Xavi - 1-2 pulls

[Koloss]

Well, if u wanna list bosses difficulty on progression (so, before overgear, nerfs, ecc):

Helya>>>>>>>>>>> Guarm= Cenarius > Odyn > Evil tree >>> Dragons > Ursoc = Elerethe > Xavius >/= Nythendra

Imho obv.

This one seems more accurate. Except i'd put Ursoc to be the easiest as it's pretty easy to overgear it now other than that you just need to do Heroic tactics and a proper heal CD assignment, our guild didn't start Mythic in the first week possible so i agree it could be challenging back then.

[Deleted]

it really comes down to how over geared your raid team is, if you try to do the fights in appropriate gear levels, the difficulty curve will look something like this:

elerethe>ursoc>=dragons>xavius>nythendra>il'gynoth>cenarius

i rate nythendra higher in difficulty because due to how the rot debuff works in mythic, and the random nature of it and having a big influence on how you do the fight based on your team comp, it will always remain a challenging encounter week after week even when considered "farm" status, but can be brute forced once geared enough.

cenarius is the hardest fight mechanically due to the various changes on mythic coupled with the personal responsibility of the ranged players to manage vines correctly while always making sure to soak them up when required.

True, enough DPS trivialized cenarius a whole lot - u can basically skip the hardest part of the fight.

[OrcsRLame]

Is it true that M-Cen is like a crap ton harder than M-Xav?

Not really. If you do him the intended way he is, but these days everyone does the zerg strat and only gets one wave of adds.

The hardest boss in mythic EN at this gear level is Il'gynoth, by far, because you still need to respect his mechanics. I mean, eventually you'll just be able to go hog wild on the adds and probably even heal through a missed soak or two, but right now he's still really punishing to fuck up on.

Nythendra: One of the harder bosses now imo, because are stupid and will get MC'd on third breath.

Renferal: Really easy if you have positioning set up and you 3 tank it. If people put green shit in bad spots or stand in webs you're gonna have a bad time.

Dragons: This fight hasn't gotten much easier. You can't really skip mechanics because everything is phase based and your tanks need to be on point with switching or else things go bad.

Ursoc: This fight is joke if you can do most of the mechanics right like half the time. Last week my guild lost a tank basically on pull due to shenanigans, and I off tanked it as ret. Just taunt for each debuff and don't be retarded.

Il'gynoth: As I alluded to earlier, cock block.

Cenarius: Pretty easy if you survive the first 2 minutes. Still harder than Ursoc.

Xavius: Piss easy if you can execute the basics of the mechanics.

Imo, boss order goes like this at current gear levels.

Helya >>>>>>>>>>>> Guarm >>>>> Odyn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Il'gynoth >>> Cenarius > Nythendra > Xavius > Dragons of Nightmare > Renferal > Ursoc.

[Aggrophobic]

Cenarius is the real "end boss" in EN and even that guy is not that hard. Xavius is a joke. Might almost be easier than HC as you get to pick the right DPS to go into the dream at the right time.

Go and try Helya on mythic. Much more of a challenge.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

Why would the heart of a long, enduring nightmare be more dangerous than the horrifying journey there?

[Halobob87]

This one seems more accurate. Except i'd put Ursoc to be the easiest as it's pretty easy to overgear it now other than that you just need to do Heroic tactics and a proper heal CD assignment, our guild didn't start Mythic in the first week possible so i agree it could be challenging back then.

Yeah, that ranking is done considering ToV pre nerf and EN early progression. Considering the actual situation (nerfs to tov, overgear 35+ trait on artifacts), the ranking would change to something like this: Helya>>>>>>> Evil Tree> Odyn > Cenarius = Guarm >> Dragons = Elerethe >> Nythendra > Ursoc = Xavius ; but, atm, this ranking would change a lot from guild to guild.

[Gephyrophobia]

I was surprised how quickly my wife went down too, but that's why I married her.

[OrcsRLame]

Yeah, that ranking is done considering ToV pre nerf and EN early progression. Considering the actual situation (nerfs to tov, overgear 35+ trait on artifacts), the ranking would change to something like this: Helya>>>>>>> Evil Tree> Odyn > Cenarius = Guarm >> Dragons = Elerethe >> Nythendra > Ursoc = Xavius ; but, atm, this ranking would change a lot from guild to guild.

Guarm will never be easier than any EN boss, because foams will always one shot. One day Odyn will be easier than Il'gynoth, but I don't think we're there yet. Even in NH gear I'd still expect Odyn to be harder. Maybe in Tomb of Sargeras gear.

[Fourze]

Guarm will never be easier than any EN boss, because foams will always one shot. One day Odyn will be easier than Il'gynoth, but I don't think we're there yet. Even in NH gear I'd still expect Odyn to be harder. Maybe in Tomb of Sargeras gear.

Odyn isn't hard, just tedious. First two phases are joke and when you can do mythic mechanic and not be shit at tornado's phase 3 will be a cakewalk too.

[Raiju]

This one seems more accurate. Except i'd put Ursoc to be the easiest as it's pretty easy to overgear it now other than that you just need to do Heroic tactics and a proper heal CD assignment, our guild didn't start Mythic in the first week possible so i agree it could be challenging back then.

That was how ursoc was for most at 870+ - honestly the biggest issue related to gear is your lower hp pools, not the dps check. He still severely punishes fuckups even if his mechanics are incredibly simple, which tends to be why he gets ranked above others (such as elerethe where everything can go wrong during progress and you still manage a kill)

[Deleted]

Thers nothing difficult about Nythendra, even pugs were downing her the moment mythic opened. Xavius is definitely the 2nd easiest boss there after Nythendra. I guess everybody has their own opinion though.

You're right on that, I didn't say it was hard though. It is harder than Xavius though, in my opinion, but the difference really isn't much. You have to get some timings right on Nythendra to not get everyone MC'd at once in Nythendra, which means a couple wipes at least. The only addition to Mythic Xavius you have to really pay attention to, is the dream groups, which is personally a much easier mechanic to deal with than the MC from Nythendra.

They're both ridiculously easy though, don't get me wrong.

[Halobob87]

Guarm will never be easier than any EN boss, because foams will always one shot. One day Odyn will be easier than Il'gynoth, but I don't think we're there yet. Even in NH gear I'd still expect Odyn to be harder. Maybe in Tomb of Sargeras gear.

Kepp in mind that my last ranking is done for people that are still progressing trougth those raids, but yes, probably you're rigth, most guilds will probably find Guarm and Odyn harder then EN, but, indeed, they're not that hard atm couse they got nerfed to the oblivion (exp Guarm, couse if u have the rigth comp, u can cheese color's debuff quite easly, and dps is no longer a big concern).

- - - Updated - - -

That was how ursoc was for most at 870+ - honestly the biggest issue related to gear is your lower hp pools, not the dps check. He still severely punishes fuckups even if his mechanics are incredibly simple, which tends to be why he gets ranked above others (such as elerethe where everything can go wrong during progress and you still manage a kill)

Pretty much this. Ursoc dps check was quite forgiving even on week 1/2 . He just did a nonsense amount of damage during soft enrage .

[OrcsRLame]

Odyn isn't hard, just tedious. First two phases are joke and when you can do mythic mechanic and not be shit at tornado's phase 3 will be a cakewalk too.

If Odyn isn't hard Il'gynoth is literally free epics. All of his abilities do way more damage and are way more punishing if you fuck them up.

[Fourze]

If Odyn isn't hard Il'gynoth is literally free epics. All of his abilities do way more damage and are way more punishing if you fuck them up.

All the mechanics are straight forward and easy. Which is why you're punished for fucking them up.

Soak shield
Spread for horn
Don't get hit by balls
Don't stand in spears
Kill adds
Get your shield so you don't die
Stack for runes in p3
don't be shit with tornadoes

It's not hard mechanics.

[OrcsRLame]

All the mechanics are straight forward and easy. Which is why you're punished for fucking them up.

Soak shield
Spread for horn
Don't get hit by balls
Don't stand in spears
Kill adds
Get your shield so you don't die
Stack for runes in p3
don't be shit with tornadoes

It's not hard mechanics.

Any boss seems easy when you distill it down to individual mechanics like that. Il'gynoth is just kill adds, soak death blossoms and don't overstack the ichor dot. It's harder in practice than it sounds.

Nothing on Il'gynoth requires as much coordination as getting 20 people to all run to the correct marker, and to get 5 people to put those markers down. Nothing on Il'gynoth is as difficult as getting the tornadoes to good spots, because you don't have a lot of time to move with those and not all classes have strong movement CDs.

Another huge difference is the raw numbers. Odyn hits the tanks astronomically harder than anything Il'gynoth does to them. The damage and healing requirements are also much higher. Like, if you have the damage to not fall behind on adds in P2 on Odyn, you have the damage to do the zerg strat on Il'gynoth. If your healers can heal through the unavoidable damage on Odyn, (horn, blast, shatter) they can easily heal through a mistimed 3 stack or even 4 stack on Il'gynoth.

You're comparing mechanics, (kind of poorly imo) when Odyn is like a mythic 5 dungeon boss and Il'gynoth is a heroic. They're not even remotely on the same level of difficulty even after Odyn's nerfs. They could chop off another 10% damage and health from Odyn and Odyn would still be harder.

[Socialhealer]

That's how our guild usually clears ENm:
Nyth - 1 pull
Ursoc - 1 pull
Ele - 1-2 pulls
Dragons - 1-2 pulls
Ilginoth - 10-15 pulls
Cenarius - 1-3 pulls
Xavi - 1-2 pulls

lol someone only clears mythic being heavily overgeared, you clearly struggle with mechanics and require gear to deal with them for you, there is no reason to have cleared the place and still need 10-15 pulls on any boss.

[OrcsRLame]

lol someone only clears mythic being heavily overgeared, you clearly struggle with mechanics and require gear to deal with them for you, there is no reason to have cleared the place and still need 10-15 pulls on any boss.

Cut the pseudo elitism; no one gives a fuck. You have no room to talk if you're not from Method/Serenity. And if you are from one of those guilds, quit shitposting and go to bed or get on wow and farm AP.