DK Trinket List NH (you can stop asking now)

[Dandeleon]

Claw was bugged in simC when the spreadsheet was made. It was ignoring armor.

[Piz813]

I really don't know how can skorpyron's claw be so high in the list... Last night in M Krosus kill, claw did like a bit over 1% of dmg overall. How can this trinket be so high in the list? It can't be only with STR cuz then memento, foci etc. would over run it by good marginal? I really think CoF + HoV should be the 2 best trinkets we can get...

yes i can agree. horn and CoF are the best we can get.
CoF makes HRW up 20 seconds behind every breath, so its always there when you need it. and a str stat stick to boot.
I got and tried a 860 Horn of Valor last night. Sold. did way more damage then with an 890 scorpyn/895 paw/ 1050 MoK (Krosus is that bad).

Here's to farming HoV hardcore till 885 or better comes along. Yaay for 46 min mythic 15s....

[Deleted]

well, imagine... i run more than 5-8 HoV/day (MM+10 at least),
i saw a 885 and 895 Horn dropped for other people, couldn't trade because of the Ilvl rule :/ (one was a healer, the other one a Hunter (bad trinket for both i heard)

[Deleted]

I will never get this trink

[Deleted]

I will never get this trink

you will, just try hard.

starting to get a good list of trinkets :
* Momento 890
* Foci 890
* Horn 885
* Hunger 880
* Urn 875

My best SimC result come from the Horn (ofc) but not so far Momento (2nd) Foci SimC not that bad but i feel waiting proc alot (i'll give it a shot today)
I don't wanna use Horn without CoF because of too much deleying BoS waiting HrW (need that CoF) For now : running Momento+Foci (today) but usually running Momento&Hunger (love that speed buff)
stat : Crit 27 / haste 21 / Mastery 29 / Versa 5 (Helm+Wirst)


any other feedback?

[Demeisen]

I've taken another look at why CoF ranks as low as it does in the 7.1.5 spreadsheet. The main culprits seem to be sim length and the APL.

With regard to sim length, the 300 sec sim using the latest nightly build aligns fairly well with the spreadsheet (10,000 iterations, T19M_NH, 20% length variance):



With sim length adjusted to 400 secs, i.e. so that there's a total of four breaths and CoF nets you two additional HRWed breaths, CoF moves up the list somewhat:



Not by much, but it's slightly higher. You can also see the difference in breath uptime between the baseline profile and the CoF profile:




But if we amend the APL so that the CoF profile only uses breath when HRW is within 10 seconds of coming off cooldown and align PoF with BoS, that causes CoF to move further up the list:



And, as expected, this results in a smoother curve on breath DPS:



APL changes (clunky):

actions+=/pillar_of_frost,if=!equipped.140806|(equipped.140806&runic_power>=50&cooldown.hungering_rune_weapon.remains<10)|(equipped.140806&cooldown.breath_of_sindragosa.remains>20)
actions.bos+=/breath_of_sindragosa,if=(!equipped.140806&runic_power>=50)|(equipped.140806&runic_power>=50&cooldown.hungering_rune_weapon.remains<10)

Does that look right? Might have screwed up a sim here or there.

[Deleted]

when i use my Horn, i don't feel i win so much dps :/ (better BOS but after that, it's lower so the overall is the same. Without CoF in my case)

Foci never proced, it's like a STR stick, in practice Momento proc way more often (even if thoses proc are 8sec duration VS 20 for Foci. 20 sec for a proc that never happen... not that great)

I'll like a better Urn and it's strenge, we don't find Hunger or any Chain.They are good.

[Maxweii]

I get it Scyn, you don't like Foci. But it doesn't 'not' proc. I know pure talking of your experiences but you're going to be misleading to people if they read what you say and think the trinket has some bug or something with it

[Deleted]

I've taken another look at why CoF ranks as low as it does in the 7.1.5 spreadsheet. The main culprits seem to be sim length and the APL.

With regard to sim length, the 300 sec sim using the latest nightly build aligns fairly well with the spreadsheet (10,000 iterations, T19M_NH, 20% length variance):



With sim length adjusted to 400 secs, i.e. so that there's a total of four breaths and CoF nets you two additional HRWed breaths, CoF moves up the list somewhat:



Not by much, but it's slightly higher. You can also see the difference in breath uptime between the baseline profile and the CoF profile:




But if we amend the APL so that the CoF profile only uses breath when HRW is within 10 seconds of coming off cooldown and align PoF with BoS, that causes CoF to move further up the list:



And, as expected, this results in a smoother curve on breath DPS:



APL changes (clunky):

actions+=/pillar_of_frost,if=!equipped.140806|(equipped.140806&runic_power>=50&cooldown.hungering_rune_weapon.remains<10)|(equipped.140806&cooldown.breath_of_sindragosa.remains>20)
actions.bos+=/breath_of_sindragosa,if=(!equipped.140806&runic_power>=50)|(equipped.140806&runic_power>=50&cooldown.hungering_rune_weapon.remains<10)

Does that look right? Might have screwed up a sim here or there.

somehow ur apl changes arent working for me :/ getting 0 dps all the time

[Demeisen]

Here's the full profile, if it helps.

[Deleted]

I get it Scyn, you don't like Foci. But it doesn't 'not' proc. I know pure talking of your experiences but you're going to be misleading to people if they read what you say and think the trinket has some bug or something with it

Well, sorry if my english is not good enough to explain what i'm looking for :
I need more feedback who show me that Foci can be good, or a whatever reason i find it not that great (better formulation? )
I've read somewhere (wowhead i think) we can have a internal GCD shared by Moment&Foci, any possibilities?

It's quit hard nowoday to find any fixe statu about trinket, some stuff work for some people but not for everyone. Just in case, my precedent message was about what i feel of some trinket i had & test.
And maybe, i'm not the only one. But, if anyone want (and should) test them by himself, well i would be happy to share some other point of vue about any of them. I'll be glad (and i'm here for that)

[Akusa202]

I have a memento and cof, both 890. Is it worth farming high lvl halls for HoV over the memento? Spread sheet puts it much higher but this sim here shows them pretty close.

[Maxweii]

Well, sorry if my english is not good enough to explain what i'm looking for :
I need more feedback who show me that Foci can be good, or a whatever reason i find it not that great (better formulation? )
I've read somewhere (wowhead i think) we can have a internal GCD shared by Moment&Foci, any possibilities?

It's quit hard nowoday to find any fixe statu about trinket, some stuff work for some people but not for everyone. Just in case, my precedent message was about what i feel of some trinket i had & test.
And maybe, i'm not the only one. But, if anyone want (and should) test them by himself, well i would be happy to share some other point of vue about any of them. I'll be glad (and i'm here for that)

On average it's roughly 20% uptime on the buffs, which is more or less on average with Memento. Obviously this will vary fight to fight, sometimes higher and sometimes lower, for both trinkets.

Some Krosus logs for example

Top log with Memento
15.43% on Howl of Ingvar - 4 procs for 32 seconds
11.57% on Wail of Svala - 3 procs for 24 seconds
3.86% on Dirge of Angerboda - 1 proc for 8 seconds
30.86% overall uptime, for 1 minute 4 seconds worth of buffs (obviously not counting overlap on procs)

Top log with Foci
Frost Enchant 26.35% - 3 procs for 60 seconds
Arcane Enchant 8.80% - 1 proc for 20 seconds
Fiery Enchant 8.77% - 1 proc for 20 seconds
43.92% uptime, for 1 minute 40 seconds worth of buffs (also not counting overlap of procs)

I know this is overall a small data sample to show, but it does proc, and on average it will give more proc uptime just less procs. 8 procs for Memento, for 5 procs on Foci.

Also this log shows that Foci/Memento can proc overlapping with each other. I zoomed in on a point where you see them getting multiple buffs from both trinkets back to back.

[Deleted]

Pharamere's Forbidden Grimoire should get a comment or something, because if your raid runs with Personal Loot, you can't normally get it (alas you shouldn't waste coins on it), only by asking casters to give it to you, since neither DK spec has it in their loot table.

[Maxweii]

Pharamere's Forbidden Grimoire should get a comment or something, because if your raid runs with Personal Loot, you can't normally get it (alas you shouldn't waste coins on it), only by asking casters to give it to you, since neither DK spec has it in their loot table.

It has a minimum range you need to be at to use it. There's almost no reason we should use it.

[Deleted]

And do you think it's an issue to use both Foci&Momento at the same time (like what i read somewhere, just want more intell about this "information")

I would like an Eye but dosen't droop
I tried MoK, and it's really not that good (when i saw it in the sim) something like 0.5% of my dps at the most. Scorpid is better (1.5 to 2% from my last test)

Most of the time, i use to try thing in MM+11 or above.

[Banter]

I've taken another look at why CoF ranks as low as it does in the 7.1.5 spreadsheet. The main culprits seem to be sim length and the APL.

With regard to sim length, the 300 sec sim using the latest nightly build aligns fairly well with the spreadsheet (10,000 iterations, T19M_NH, 20% length variance):



With sim length adjusted to 400 secs, i.e. so that there's a total of four breaths and CoF nets you two additional HRWed breaths, CoF moves up the list somewhat:



Not by much, but it's slightly higher. You can also see the difference in breath uptime between the baseline profile and the CoF profile:




But if we amend the APL so that the CoF profile only uses breath when HRW is within 10 seconds of coming off cooldown and align PoF with BoS, that causes CoF to move further up the list:



And, as expected, this results in a smoother curve on breath DPS:



APL changes (clunky):

actions+=/pillar_of_frost,if=!equipped.140806|(equipped.140806&runic_power>=50&cooldown.hungering_rune_weapon.remains<10)|(equipped.140806&cooldown.breath_of_sindragosa.remains>20)
actions.bos+=/breath_of_sindragosa,if=(!equipped.140806&runic_power>=50)|(equipped.140806&runic_power>=50&cooldown.hungering_rune_weapon.remains<10)

Does that look right? Might have screwed up a sim here or there.

This is fascinating man, great work! Do you think you could post some html's so i could take a look?

[Demeisen]

This is fascinating man, great work! Do you think you could post some html's so i could take a look?

Sure - here are the results of two 400 sec sims using the modified APL (with an additional amendment thanks to gixxpunk to correct some faulty PoF logic) with 925 ilvl trinkets, along with the sim profile:

3320032_400s_NewAPL.html
3320022_400s_NewAPL.html
profile.txt

The second sim uses 3320022 rather than 3320032 because I didn't realise the original spreadsheet BoS sims were conducted using RA over GS to offset the sim's inefficiency in maintaining BoS uptime. However, an interesting result is that CoF simmed lower, relative to the other trinkets, using RA than it did using GS. Not quite sure why that's the case, but a guess might be that sim wastes the additional RP from RA during HRW. Haven't looked into this yet.

[Banter]

Sheets updated

big thanks to Demeisen and Gixx for the APL revision, BoS sims much more accurately with CoF now. Great work guys!!!

Also quick note, Claw ignored armor when i last simmed (25th Jan). I never knew about this, and wasn't notified when it was fixed, so that's why it's moved down.

[Sunraven]

Thanks for the lists.