Flying Next Expack

[Saverem]

EXTREMELY biased poll. Where is the option for "Prefer no flying"?

Some people enjoy not flying and having to do jump puzzles and actual exploration instead of just flying over everything.

[SirCowdog]

If they can actually make flying meaningful. I'll like it.

That's the problem with this entire argument. You won't find much support on these forums for actually improving flight. Most people seem content with the raw power of flying, but locked behind a wall of achievements. And Blizzard doesn't seem very interested in spending time or money on it either.

It's like a lot of other things in WoW right now: A wasted opportunity and untapped potential.

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EXTREMELY biased poll. Where is the option for "Prefer no flying"?

Some people enjoy not flying and having to do jump puzzles and actual exploration instead of just flying over everything.

The interesting thing about that is that the concepts of flying and exploration aren't mutually exclusive. WoW COULD have both.

[Saverem]

The interesting thing about that is that the concepts of flying and exploration aren't mutually exclusive. WoW COULD have both.

Then they'd have to make the zones 3X bigger like they were in MoP or earlier expansions. Don't really feel like spending 3 minutes on mount or flight path to get from one end of the zone to the other.

I like the new smaller, more cluttered zones.

[SirCowdog]

Then they'd have to make the zones 3X bigger like they were in MoP or earlier expansions. Don't really feel like spending 3 minutes on mount or flight path to get from one end of the zone to the other.

I like the new smaller, more cluttered zones.

No, they don't have to make them 3x bigger. Why? What explanation is there for that? Because flying is fast? Ok...so make flying the same speed as ground mounts. Problem solved.

Ok...the other explanation for "larger zones" is that zones have to be more spread out. Why not build vertically(both up into the air, AND down into the ground. This would not only give flying some context, but with more vertical areas to navigate players could make use of their other movement abilities. Underground areas would not allow for flying(just like every indoor area).

Furthermore, why are larger zones a problem? Don't people always complain that there isn't enough to do? Wouldn't bigger zones with more stuff be better? More opportunities for Blizzard to create interesting things to explore instead of just mashing everything into what you can see from the end of the flight path?

As for getting around, create a waypoint system, or just make flight paths that don't suck and take "3 minutes". Is getting around Legion currently difficult? No, obviously not between all the different portals, teleports, summons, and other tools available. Simply having more to each zone wouldn't change that.

[Dhrizzle]

"Open world game"? Lol.

Do you disagree with WoW being an open-world game?

You blame others for wanting Wow to be something, that "isn't Warcraft", while doing exactly the same by yourself.

I'm not sure I'm actually "blaming" anyone for anything. How does my being satisfied with WoW as it is equate to me wanting WoW to be something that "isn't Warcraft?" What does "isn't Warcraft" actually mean?

Your desire to turn Wow into some kind of Duck Tales or Metroid...

What do you mean here?

...is not even a tiny bit more reasonable, than my desire to turn it into RPG, that focuses on quest objectives and character progression.

Are you sure you've played WoW, because for the most part it is an RPG that focuses on quest objectives and character progression?

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Then they'd have to make the zones 3X bigger like they were in MoP or earlier expansions. Don't really feel like spending 3 minutes on mount or flight path to get from one end of the zone to the other.

I like the new smaller, more cluttered zones.

MoP had pretty small zones too, they were about the same size as Legion's (and Pandaria was about the same size as the Broken Isles.) Draenor and Outland were bigger (and again roughly the same size as each other) but Northrend was the largest expansion, though it did feature a lot of dead space.

[Daffan]

For me No flying on max level = no buying AT ALL, i can accept it for being restricted to max level, but no more grinding for something that Blizzard announcing it as a feature while it was baseline, let me enjoy the content at my pace and the way i want it.

Some people's pace is literally epics appearing in your backpack and everything auto complete /=

[SirCowdog]

Some people's pace is literally epics appearing in your backpack and everything auto complete /=

You're trying to imply that Flying equates to free loot while your mount does the quests for you automatically while you sit afk. It doesn't. And I've never heard anyone besides haters claim that they want content to complete itself. Making up completely false situations and strawman arguments doesn't help your point of view at all.

[Daffan]

You're trying to imply that Flying equates to free loot while your mount does the quests for you automatically while you sit afk. It doesn't. And I've never heard anyone besides haters claim that they want content to complete itself. Making up completely false situations and strawman arguments doesn't help your point of view at all.

Not really, flying is kewl - I don't even care about the flying argument really. I was just talking about the people who ask for everything lol and they do - waaaaaaaa cant catch up to raiders plz make freebies

[SirCowdog]

Not really, flying is kewl - I don't even care about the flying argument really. I was just talking about the people who ask for everything lol and they do - waaaaaaaa cant catch up to raiders plz make freebies

If that's really what you're saying, then what does ANY of that have to do with flying? Nothing. Hence why I say you're trying to link the two concepts. And if you're not trying to imply that, then your post belongs in one of the LFR threads, not here.

[Saverem]

No, they don't have to make them 3x bigger. Why? What explanation is there for that? Because flying is fast? Ok...so make flying the same speed as ground mounts. Problem solved.

Umm, speed isn't the problem it's being able to bypass 90% of the zone by just flying over it...

[SirCowdog]

Umm, speed isn't the problem it's being able to bypass 90% of the zone by just flying over it...

To be completely objective, yes, raw speed is part of the problem. It's one of the main reasons for why zones "need to be larger", and also makes it difficult for mob AI/pathing to handle.

As for bypassing 90% of the zone, that's already done with flight paths, teleporting/summons, gliding, or just riding past on a ground mount with barding. The reason why it's being bypassed isn't because of flight, it's because 90% of the content isn't interesting in the first place. That's not caused by flight, even if flying makes it more visible.

[-Joker-]

The 10.3m number was a false report, confirmed by Blizzard. Backed up by their policy of not releasing such numbers. The only hard numbers we have are the 3.3m copies sold for launch, and the report of Legions launch month having the same number of concurrent players as cata(which is not the same thing as active subs).

There's also the recent earnings call to work with, but again it doesn't reveal much in terms of players.

Again:

The only VALID poll will be the one offered to EVERY WoW player, however that might be delivered.

If I had to guess, I would say 85%+ would not give a damn about flight. Even the actual forum has no interest in the discussion since the Patchfinder was unlocked. Most people just complete the achieve without bitching.

[Saverem]

To be completely objective, yes, raw speed is part of the problem. It's one of the main reasons for why zones "need to be larger", and also makes it difficult for mob AI/pathing to handle.

As for bypassing 90% of the zone, that's already done with flight paths, teleporting/summons, gliding, or just riding past on a ground mount with barding. The reason why it's being bypassed isn't because of flight, it's because 90% of the content isn't interesting in the first place. That's not caused by flight, even if flying makes it more visible.

No, speed isn't the problem, in fact, if I could just instantly teleport anywhere, I would. We could never be fast enough.

[-Spetz-]

Everybody will just buy it regardless of the flying.

[roahn the warlock]

That's the problem with this entire argument. You won't find much support on these forums for actually improving flight. Most people seem content with the raw power of flying, but locked behind a wall of achievements. And Blizzard doesn't seem very interested in spending time or money on it either.

It's like a lot of other things in WoW right now: A wasted opportunity and untapped potential.

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The interesting thing about that is that the concepts of flying and exploration aren't mutually exclusive. WoW COULD have both.

Here's the problem with flying. In TBC, flying was used to get someplace high. You flew at a measily 60% speed, and it was generally faster to go by ground. the epic flying was a reward for those who made 5kg, and you elitists can shut up right now because for the majority of players. 5kg was hard to get. You had to work for it.

Now everyone has 310% flying, and it's used as a lazy way to get from flat surface A to flat surface B. There is no third dimention to Zones so it is absolutely pointless.

[SirCowdog]

Here's the problem with flying. In TBC, flying was used to get someplace high. You flew at a measily 60% speed, and it was generally faster to go by ground. the epic flying was a reward for those who made 5kg, and you elitists can shut up right now because for the majority of players. 5kg was hard to get. You had to work for it.

Now everyone has 310% flying, and it's used as a lazy way to get from flat surface A to flat surface B. There is no third dimention to Zones so it is absolutely pointless.

So you seem to be saying that the problem is:

A) The speed of flying
B) Accessibility of flight
C) Content design that doesn't use flight.

So...if the speed was set to the same as ground mounts, this would solve A. "Everyone" doesn't have flight, and you have to work for it through Pathfinder, solving B(although I'd prefer an unlock with more story context, that's beside the point). And what if Blizzard actually designed zones with vertical aspects that you could fly to? Wouldn't that solve C?

What do you say to a world design where you run through the zones on a ground mount at first, but once you obtain flight there are additional areas to explore? Think of them as bonus areas if that helps. Would these "bonus" areas built for flying make all the ground content disappear? Keeping in mind that you wouldn't be moving faster than a ground mount, and you would have already played through the ground content before, would having flight even have that much impact on your enjoyment of that ground content?

[anveena]

I personally hope they handle it the same way they did in legion. Reading all these people saying they're going to quit the game over it is quite amusing.

[roahn the warlock]

So you seem to be saying that the problem is:

A) The speed of flying
B) Accessibility of flight
C) Content design that doesn't use flight.

So...if the speed was set to the same as ground mounts, this would solve A. "Everyone" doesn't have flight, and you have to work for it through Pathfinder, solving B(although I'd prefer an unlock with more story context, that's beside the point). And what if Blizzard actually designed zones with vertical aspects that you could fly to? Wouldn't that solve C?

What do you say to a world design where you run through the zones on a ground mount at first, but once you obtain flight there are additional areas to explore? Think of them as bonus areas if that helps. Would these "bonus" areas built for flying make all the ground content disappear? Keeping in mind that you wouldn't be moving faster than a ground mount, and you would have already played through the ground content before, would having flight even have that much impact on your enjoyment of that ground content?

I dunno, TBC and Wrath kinda pulled it off pretty well. I enjoy ground content. And since people seem to like flying to explore. This allows them to do that.

If they are lying and it has jackall to do with exploration and it's just them being Lazy. Then they won't have much to bitch about anymore.

[SirCowdog]

I dunno, TBC and Wrath kinda pulled it off pretty well. I enjoy ground content. And since people seem to like flying to explore. This allows them to do that.

If they are lying and it has jackall to do with exploration and it's just them being Lazy. Then they won't have much to bitch about anymore.

What it boils down to is how Blizzard and the community view flying. It seems pretty obvious that Blizzard would like Flight to be nothing more than a half-assed reward that makes leveling alts easier. While someone like me wants flying to actually go back to being part of the lore and the overall experience of the game.

Right now flight is little more than a weak afterthought. And it could be used to open up an entirely different aspect of the gameplay and the presentation of the game world. The fantasy and wonder of flight is something that humanity has been captivated by since time out of mind. But meanwhile, even after seeing zones like Stormpeaks and Icecrown, Blizzard expects us to believe: "herp derp! We dun know how to make dat fun.....". And the saddest part is that so many people DO believe that.

'Disappointing' isn't a strong enough word.

[Dhrizzle]

What it boils down to is how Blizzard and the community view flying. It seems pretty obvious that Blizzard would like Flight to be nothing more than a half-assed reward that makes leveling alts easier. While someone like me wants flying to actually go back to being part of the lore and the overall experience of the game.

Right now flight is little more than a weak afterthought. And it could be used to open up an entirely different aspect of the gameplay and the presentation of the game world. The fantasy and wonder of flight is something that humanity has been captivated by since time out of mind. But meanwhile, even after seeing zones like Stormpeaks and Icecrown, Blizzard expects us to believe: "herp derp! We dun know how to make dat fun.....". And the saddest part is that so many people DO believe that.

'Disappointing' isn't a strong enough word.

Storm Peaks was great, Icecrown was terrible. Hyjal, Uldum and Twilight Highlands would have been much better if they'd put in the extra work to make them better suited for ground traveling. Vash'jir worked really well from an exploration point of view (can't really blame flight for the terribly generic questing experience.) Stonecore could have been made to work without flight but didn't do too bad with it. TBC dailies were fun initially but the gimmicks of dodging birds/cannons wore thin pretty quickly. Most WotLK, Cata and MoP dailies felt like mindless chores where you just dropped on targets, killed/collecte/used them then flapped away; I've much preferred the Apexis zones and World Quests from WoD and Legion.

Now I know this is just my opinion but from past performance it's better if Blizz focus on the ground game which has for the most part delivered much better experiences. Or, in terms it seems you need to understand a point, "herp derp! You no make good argument! You no tell wot opinyuns and fax are!"