7.2.5 patch notes

[permp]

Assassination
Damage of all abilities increased by 10%.
Agonizing Poison has been removed.
New talent added, replacing Agonizing Poison: Toxic Blade
Costs 20 Energy, generates 1 Combo Point, 25 second cooldown.
Stab your enemy with a toxic blade, dealing [600% Weapon Damage] Nature damage. Your Nature damage abilities against the target are increased by 35% for 9 seconds.
Exsanguinate now causes your Bleed effects to bleed out 150% (was 100%) faster.
Exsanguinate now costs 25 Energy.
Fan of Knives damage increased by 40%.
Vendetta now affects Poison Bomb damage.


Outlaw
Developers’ notes: Our overall goals here include smoothing out Energy regeneration and reducing the frequency of both resource drought and Energy capping.
All damage increased by 8%.
Adrenaline Rush Energy regeneration increase reduced to 60% (was 100%). Duration increased to 20 seconds (was 15 seconds).
Ambush damage increased by 33%.
Combat Potency proc rate increased to 30% (was 20%), and Energy per proc reduced to 10 (was 15).
Curse of the Dreadblades (Artifact trait) now works with Ambush.
Fortune Strikes redesigned. Now increases Combat Potency’s proc rate by 2% per point (was +1 Energy per Combat Potency proc per point).
Developers’ notes: The net result of the two Combat Potency and Fortune Strikes changes is that Combat Potency should generate half as much Energy, twice as often.
Restless Blades has returned. Finishing moves reduce the remaining cooldown on Adrenaline Rush, Between the Eyes, Sprint, Grappling Hook, Cannonball Barrage, Killing Spree, Marked for Death, Death from Above, Vanish by 0.5 seconds per combo point spent.
Slice and Dice now increases attack speed by 125% (was 100%).
Roll the Bones
Developers’ notes: The distribution of the number of buffs you get from Roll the Bones has changed. On average, you will get fewer buffs. Our goal is to significantly reduce the desire to frequently recast Roll the Bones when you get 1 buff.
Broadsides now also increases the damage of your combo-point generating abilities by 20%.
Buried Treasure increases Energy regeneration by 30% (was 25%).
Grand Melee now increases attack speed by 55% (was 50%).
True Bearing causes Finishing moves to reduce the cooldown of many abilities by 1.0 seconds (was 2.0 seconds) per combo point.


Subtlety
Developers’ notes: Our overall goals are to remove uncontrolled player teleport from the baseline DPS rotation, to reduce the frequency of teleporting in PvP, to allow players to choose between more frequent or more impactful Shadow Dances, which equates to more frequent CC/utility or damage in PvP, to keep the PvE rotation engaging, and to make Symbols of Death more engaging.
All damage dealt increased by 20%.
Backstab base damage increased by 35%.
Backstab damage bonus from being behind the target reduced to 20% (was 30%).
Dark Shadow is a new talent at level 90: While Shadow Dance is active, all damage you deal is increased by 30%.
Deepening Shadows now causes your finishing moves to reduce the remaining cooldown on Shadow Dance by 1.5 seconds (was 3 seconds) per combo point spent.
Energetic Stabbing (Artifact trait) now has an increased proc chance of 50% (was 25%), now refunds 2 Energy per point (was 5), and now also works with Backstab.
Enveloping Shadows redesigned. Deepening Shadows reduces the remaining cooldown of Shadow Dance by an additional 1.0 second per combo point spent. Shadow Dance gains 1 additional charge.
Etched in Shadow (Artifact trait) is now named Weak Point: Increases the critical strike damage of Backstab and Shadowstrike by 5% per point.
Feeding Frenzy (Artifact trait) now lasts for 30 seconds (was 20 seconds).
Flickering Shadows (Artifact Trait) redesigned: Now reduces the cooldown of Sprint by 10 seconds and Vanish by 30 seconds.
Gloomblade damage increased by 10%.
Marked for Death’s cooldown reduced to 40 seconds (was 60 seconds) for Subtlety.
Developers’ notes: This is to balance it against Premeditation, which is now on the same row. It’s a buff in a raid setting, where the talent was very weak.
Master of Shadows now gains 25 Energy over 3 seconds when you enter Stealth or Shadow Dance.
Developers’ notes: Pooling energy going into a Shadow Dance has long been the way to play Subtlety, and we’d like to bring that back. This design still gives you more energy for a Shadow Dance, but in a way that allows the Rogue to fully utilize pooling gameplay.
Nightblade now increases your damage dealt to the target by 15%, with damage over time component reduced by 35%.
Developers’ notes: Further pushes Subtlety away from maintaining Nightblade on all secondary targets and instead into focusing their damage into 1 target. Additionally, gives Nightblade a mechanical interaction with the rest of the core rotation that fulfills the “setup” feel of Subtlety.
Premeditation has been removed.
Relentless Strikes now causes your finishing moves to generate 6 Energy per combo point spent.
Second Shuriken (Artifact trait) damage increased by 200%.
Shadow Dance now has 2 charges (was 3), and is no longer on the global cooldown.
Shadow Dance’s base duration increased to 4 seconds (was 3 seconds).
Shadow Nova (Artifact trait) damage increased by 67%.
Shadow’s Whisper (Artifact trait) now increases Energy gain by 8 (was 5).
Shadowstep now has 2 charges for Subtlety.
Shadowstrike now hits at melee range (was a 15 yard range) and generates 2 combo points (was 1).
Shadowstrike, when used while Stealthed, now deals 25% increased damage (was 9%) and teleports you up to 25 yards behind your target. This does not happen while in Shadow Dance or during Subterfuge.
Shuriken Combo is a new passive talent available at level 70: Shuriken Storm increases the damage of your next Eviscerate by 10% for each enemy hit beyond the first. Stacks up to 5 times.
Developers’ notes: This aims to remove maintaining Nightblade on every target from your AOE rotation on 4+ targets. Instead, Subtlety will deal increased damage during AOE by focusing it into one target.
Shuriken Storm base damage increased by 67%.
Sprint now allows Subtlety Rogues to run over water. This is only possible when running forward.
Subterfuge’s duration increase to Shadow Dance reduced to 1 second (was 2 seconds).
Symbols of Death redesigned. Invoke ancient symbols of power, generating 40 Energy and increasing your damage done by 15% for 10 seconds.
The Quiet Knife (Artifact trait) now increases damage dealt by Backstab by 5% (was 3%) per point.
Weak Point (Artifact trait) now increases the critical strike damage of Backstab and Shadowstrike by 8% per point.


Sub look very strong with this changes.

Assa will still be good i think but sub might be alot better

Outlaw will be a nice fun spec to play on heroic/myth farm.

[Kissare]

Sub looks strong. Was my fav spec, I might consider changing. will look at the 1st Weeks Logs of ToS to make my final decision

[Symphonic]

Shadowstrike now hits at melee range (was a 15 yard range) and generates 2 combo points (was 1).
Shadowstrike, when used while Stealthed, now deals 25% increased damage (was 9%) and teleports you up to 25 yards behind your target. This does not happen while in Shadow Dance or during Subterfuge.

So you have to be in melee range to use it... but teleports you up to 25 yards behind your target? What?

[Umbrex]

So you have to be in melee range to use it... but teleports you up to 25 yards behind your target? What?

u quote something you didn't read?

what ?

anywhoo, i fucking hope this wont get numbertuned to death ...if not, and if logs are there, i am for sure swapping as well so pumped for this shit

[Symphonic]

u quote something you didn't read?

what ?

anywhoo, i fucking hope this wont get numbertuned to death ...if not, and if logs are there, i am for sure swapping as well so pumped for this shit

It really doesn't make sense, but I haven't played sub in this expansion at all. I even got the sub artifact while in a different spec. So, help me understand.

[Kaluna]

It's a ranged ability (25y) when you're in Stealth and melee when you're not.

[Nekroman]

Initial from stealth proper or vanish only will teleport you. Otherwise(shadow dance/subterfuge) it doesn't at all.

[Deleted]

Sub is strong. Sub is super strong. But to get the max dps out of this spec requires more skill than before. So if you have only a little to no experience with this spec, it makes no sense to switch to sub for the progression phase. Also the spec will have some issues with some bosses, especially the last ones.

assassination will still be the easiest way to success during the progression phase. This spec is a little bit behind sub, but its much more realisitc to get to the max dps point in dynamic pve environment.

I still dont see the usage of outlaw rogues in AoE fights. Maybe its fun and it looks good, but its still quite uneffective for the progression phase. Its better to avoid as much AoE dps as possible and just bring the absolute necessary, more single target dps = shorter overall bossfights.

[Umbrex]

Sub is strong. Sub is super strong. But to get the max dps out of this spec requires more skill than before. So if you have only a little to no experience with this spec, it makes no sense to switch to sub for the progression phase. Also the spec will have some issues with some bosses, especially the last ones.

how is it, in your opinion harder ?

[Won7on]

Also the spec will have some issues with some bosses, especially the last ones.

Can you elaborate? Haven't looked at ToS bosses yet. I'm curious what sort of boss mechanic would give Sub issues.

Personally, I feel like 20% spec aura buff AND giving Nightblade a +15% damage buff is kinda insane. I'm surprised Assass simmed even close to Sub, tbh. That's basically 35% damage for Sub just in those 2 changes.

[Deleted]

Can you elaborate? Haven't looked at ToS bosses yet. I'm curious what sort of boss mechanic would give Sub issues.

Personally, I feel like 20% spec aura buff AND giving Nightblade a +15% damage buff is kinda insane. I'm surprised Assass simmed even close to Sub, tbh. That's basically 35% damage for Sub just in those 2 changes.

The 20% is for the loss of the old Symbols, so it's no change there.

[Won7on]

The 20% is for the loss of the old Symbols, so it's no change there.

Ahh, right. Still, the new Symbols is more than 1 Shadowstrike crit every 40 seconds, so it'll be a buff overall. But yeah, now I get why they're still close.

[Terahertz]

Marked for Death’s cooldown reduced to 40 seconds (was 60 seconds) for Subtlety.
Developers’ notes: This is to balance it against Premeditation, which is now on the same row. It’s a buff in a raid setting, where the talent was very weak.

Premeditation has been removed.

Typical Blizzard xd

The sub changes are the reason why I started playing again. 7.2.5 can't come fast enough!

[Kaluna]

Sub is strong. Sub is super strong. But to get the max dps out of this spec requires more skill than before. So if you have only a little to no experience with this spec, it makes no sense to switch to sub for the progression phase. Also the spec will have some issues with some bosses, especially the last ones.

They removed the small bugs that required some skill (Opener with mantle for example), the "vanish sprint' and energy management is much more smoothier now. So I'd like to know where it requires more skill than before.

[Deleted]

Sub is looking very good. And it seems it does well with almost all setups/talent choices (at least for 30,45 and 90 row).

[Deleted]

I thought SnD Outlaw is viable too for progression?

[Deleted]

Can you elaborate? Haven't looked at ToS bosses yet. I'm curious what sort of boss mechanic would give Sub issues.

Personally, I feel like 20% spec aura buff AND giving Nightblade a +15% damage buff is kinda insane. I'm surprised Assass simmed even close to Sub, tbh. That's basically 35% damage for Sub just in those 2 changes.

uptime-issues. sure, any spec has problems with uptime-losses, but sub and outlaw suffer more than assassination. Its not only because assassination has DoTs. Assassination has better capabilites to transfer dps to a later point in time. A major part of assassinations dps is coming off of CDs (vendetta/kingsbane/~TB~) which can be used quite flexible. Sub and outlaw doesnt have such flexibility.

how is it, in your opinion harder ?

They removed the small bugs that required some skill (Opener with mantle for example), the "vanish sprint' and energy management is much more smoothier now. So I'd like to know where it requires more skill than before.

The energy feedback increases significantly. The time frames at which you do your damage spikes are shorter than before. The whole playstyle is faster than before, you have more descissions to make. Top dps requires flawless gameplay. As an unexperienced its harder than before to master the spec to its best. If you play sub already correctly, you will have indeed no issues to catch up.

[elfporn]

uptime-issues. sure, any spec has problems with uptime-losses, but sub and outlaw suffer more than assassination. Its not only because assassination has DoTs. Assassination has better capabilites to transfer dps to a later point in time. A major part of assassinations dps is coming off of CDs (vendetta/kingsbane/~TB~) which can be used quite flexible. Sub and outlaw doesnt have such flexibility.





The energy feedback increases significantly. The time frames at which you do your damage spikes are shorter than before. The whole playstyle is faster than before, you have more descissions to make. Top dps requires flawless gameplay. As an unexperienced its harder than before to master the spec to its best. If you play sub already correctly, you will have indeed no issues to catch up.

Ass will be even more dependant on boss uptime. Dots are now a smaller portion of dmg without ap, and deadly poison requires you to hit the boss and keep up envenom. Ass cooldowns are short, require you do be hitting the boss and using energy constantly to keep the cooldown reductions going. On an add that dies fast, using your cooldowns is most of the time a waste due to how long they last.

Assassination is hugely dependent on boss uptime, due to the length, short cds, cd reductions, and staggered nature of said cooldowns. And now we're using deadly poison, which increases that uptime reliance. Assassination's cd's are not flexible at all, holding back for jsust 10 seconds can lose an entire use during a fight.

Sub on the other hand operates on a charge system, ridiculous mobility, little setup, swapping to a target to burn is easy, holding back a charge of sd is easy, and not harmful to dps. Flawless gameplay is not required to excel, proper pooling and energy usage, with Cd use. It's more complicated because of the setup and planning ahead needed.

[WoWnoob]

Outlaw seems pretty good.

[Deleted]

deadly poison requires you to hit the boss

the dot of deadly poison can be refreshed by using poisoned knife.

Assassination is hugely dependent on boss uptime, due to the length, short cds, cd reductions, and staggered nature of said cooldowns. And now we're using deadly poison, which increases that uptime reliance.

All specs are hugely dependent on boss uptime. No uptime means usually no dps. Assassination and Sub can keep up a little part of the dps while moving around because of dots (to use shuriken toss makes only sense to prevent capping energy, but the gain is not worth speaking. Poisoned Knife should only be used to keep up deadly poison and to avoid capping energy). Outlaw only has PS and BtE. BtE is usually in use during the normal rotation and has a long cooldown (while not in melee range, its hard to reduce the cooldown). The DPS of PS alone is not worth speaking.

Assassination's cd's are not flexible at all, holding back for jsust 10 seconds can lose an entire use during a fight.

The time is lost either way for all specs.

You must react to the uptime-losses anyways.

And its quite impossible to loose a whole usage of a CD due to a delay of 10secs. If you delay a spell for 10secs, it can cost you 10secs of the same CD in the last moments of the encounter.