Canadian Dad let his kids ride the bus alone and it sparked a national debate

[Seranthor]

Not everywhere is rural Montana either.

So then the question becomes... Are you suggesting that Canada is so full of child predators and other unsavory folks that we need to hover over our children to ensure that nothing happens to them? Or are you more concerned with becoming a nanny state and creating people just barely smart enough to run the machines, but not smart enough to think for themselves.

You claim this is a problem... What is exactly the problem? What Is YOUR solution?

[D3thray]

This is blatantly false. I recently read how dangerous it was for kids to walk to school in Chicago.

I mean I'll take my anecdotes over your news headlines any day.

[cubby]

7 and 11 years old. Public transit, not a school bus. Yeah, I see their point. It's about supervision and guardianship; he's not performing those duties.

It's like how teaching your 6 year old to not play around the pool can still get you a visit from social workers if you leave your kid outside by the pool all afternoon without being there to watch them. They're kids; they aren't safe to watch themselves at that age.

It's actually four kids, within that age range. To me it's about independence and training - 11 is definitely old enough. I think the issue is the younger ones - it seems the 11 year old is also in charge of the others, and that is problematic. 11 isn't really old enough for a supervisory role, not over three other kids.

Interesting situation though.

[Tijuana]

7 and 11 years old. Public transit, not a school bus. Yeah, I see their point. It's about supervision and guardianship; he's not performing those duties.

It's like how teaching your 6 year old to not play around the pool can still get you a visit from social workers if you leave your kid outside by the pool all afternoon without being there to watch them. They're kids; they aren't safe to watch themselves at that age.

That's a matter of opinion, not fact. The social workers ought not have the right to question parenting decisions that are subjective in nature. Matters of clear and present danger are different.

I feel sorry for those living under oppressive regimes, like Canadia, where you are not even allowed to raise your own children in the manner you wish.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

This just seems ridiculous and takes away the agency of the parent to raise their kids as they see fit.

I understand that in extreme situations, someone must intervene on behalf of the children; however having their children ride a bus from point A to point B while having a cell phone readily available (and having been with/instructed many times before that) seems like a stretch and the state overstepping its boundaries. I almost wanted to be like, "You know what, seven is a bit too young," but then read about how some areas went to the extreme on allowing a child to go unsupervised.

Either a parent has the power to parent or they're simply incubators while the state raises their children and Youtube teaches them how to behave.

[Deleted]

Wrong. Canada cares about its kids thus why it is a national debate. Get your facts straight.

Caring =/= Overprotective
God forbid people can't take public transportation until they're like 18 years old

[Wiyld]

When I was in third grade I started commuting back and forth between the US and Hong Kong. I was 'escorted' twice, then we stopped telling the airline I was an unaccompanied minor....it just wasn't worth it....was more of a hassle then anything else.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Complains about children not maturing into adults. Grossly mistakes rules of grammar for a pinata while doing so. Keks ensue.

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This wasn't a school bus, it's public transportation. Have you SEEN the creeps that ride that shit? What's really sad is that the same halfwits in this thread screaming that the kids were fine and the dad was right would be mindlessly criticizing his absent-minded parenting if one of the kids was abducted. You people just post to hear yourselves talk at this point.

What does grammar have to do with maturing into an adult, not every ones first language is English and know all the grammar rules.

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That's a matter of opinion, not fact. The social workers ought not have the right to question parenting decisions that are subjective in nature. Matters of clear and present danger are different.

I feel sorry for those living under oppressive regimes, like Canadia, where you are not even allowed to raise your own children in the manner you wish.

You think Canada is a oppressive regime? That's a hoot, you have clearly never been to Canada people in city's like Toronto let there kids as young as 7 take the street car or bus alone all the time and no one bats an eye and in smaller towns like Brampton you can pretty much raise your kid how ever you want with little trouble from child services.

[Tijuana]

What does grammar have to do with maturing into an adult, not every ones first language is English and know all the grammar rules.

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You think Canada is a oppressive regime? That's a hoot, you have clearly never been to Canada people in city's like Toronto let there kids as young as 7 take the street car or bus alone all the time and no one bats an eye and in smaller towns like Brampton you can pretty much raise your kid how ever you want with little trouble from child services.

The OP story belies your claims rather well, imo.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The OP story belies your claims rather well, imo.

Ya no one story in Vancouver doesn't mean people in all of Canada have no say in how there kids are raised just as one story in any other country means it's always happening, unless you think every one in America is racist and always getting shot.

[Tijuana]

Ya no one story in Vancouver doesn't mean people in all of Canada have no say in how there kids are raised just as one story in any other country means it's always happening, unless you think every one in America is racist and always getting shot.

The story plainly lays out what is going on. Are you denying the facts of the story? Do you have a better source?

[PosPosPos]

It really depends on the kids and the area they are in. At where I live, it's definitely safe enough for children around that age to run around unattended, as long as they show an understanding of basic norms(like traffic safety).

As such, school buses are more of convenience tools rather than avenues of safety for children here. I could use public transport as early as 6+, but there was always the problem of having to wake up much earlier due to public transport coming at irregular intervals. It was a pain having to explain being late was due to the public train/bus breaking down or having delays, and that was never an issue with the school bus because it's much easier to corroborate with the drivers' statements.

[bladeXcrasher]

It really depends on the kids and the area they are in. At where I live, it's definitely safe enough for children around that age to run around unattended, as long as they show an understanding of basic norms(like traffic safety).

As such, school buses are more of convenience tools rather than avenues of safety for children here. I could use public transport as early as 6+, but there was always the problem of having to wake up much earlier due to public transport coming at irregular intervals. It was a pain having to explain being late was due to the public train/bus breaking down or having delays, and that was never an issue with the school bus because it's much easier to corroborate with the drivers' statements.

I thought it was common knowledge in SG that the MRT broke down so much that it's become a meme?

[Hctaz]

7 and 11 years old. Public transit, not a school bus. Yeah, I see their point. It's about supervision and guardianship; he's not performing those duties.

I mean... Public transit should be reasonably safe. I expect the 11 year old to be smart enough not to go off with strangers. I mean, I walked home from school when I was 11. I'd reckon walking through two neighborhoods, one major road, and a across a ditch with a custom made bridge using random logs found by the local kids to cross the water is more dangerous than a bus. It was like a 30-40 minute trip by foot and I was alone for over half of it.

And I used to ride my bike around the surrounding areas near my neighborhood all of the time before I was even in Middle School (so like... grade 4-5). I'd go to various food places, cross some pretty serious traffic, go to my friend's houses in other neighborhoods nearby... I mean it was just a thing we did. My parents taught me not to trust strangers, not to take weird things from people, to memorize my entire home address and phone number and probably many more things about safety I don't recall right now from the moment I was born pretty much. The home address and phone number stuff was especially important when I started school. We had a stamp my parents would use for mail or something and I would stamp it on my hand whenever I would leave until I had it memorized.

I trust that this parent has taught his kids all of the important things that come with safety and has probably tested them by asking them out of the blue numerous times. 11 year old kids don't need to be babysat, they need to be taught how to take care of themselves reasonably. I don't expect them to cook their own meals, but I expect them to learn how to stay away from danger. I mean.. I expect the 7 year old to know how to do that too.

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more like I don't trust a 7 year old to be out alone going on buses. First graders are not competent enough to be left alone in public without supervision..

They had their older sibling with them. That should be fine. I think two kids who have been taught over the course of 2 years how to ride a bus would know how to ride a bus safely.

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I knew there would be certain posters who would come in here and boast of their "exploits" when younger.

Well yes.. because the world isn't any less safe than it was back then. It's probably significantly more safe what with the fact that cell phones have exploded in popularity. I didn't even have a cell phone until I was in the 7th grade but I was still going out to my friend's houses on bike in the 4th grade with no supervision and no cell phone.

[Deleted]

7 and 11 years old. Public transit, not a school bus. Yeah, I see their point. It's about supervision and guardianship; he's not performing those duties.

It's like how teaching your 6 year old to not play around the pool can still get you a visit from social workers if you leave your kid outside by the pool all afternoon without being there to watch them. They're kids; they aren't safe to watch themselves at that age.

whats it like to be hated on these forums?
man, you really are despised here, arent you?

[Hctaz]

My dad grew up in the fifties, I just asked him and my grandmother didn't let him take public transit alone until he was 13, so yeah this is certainly child neglect.

The world was more dangerous back then. Pretty sure cell phones weren't a thing and they didn't start becoming a thing that 7 year olds had until well after I was in high school. I guarantee you that those kids probably have a cell phone among them to call their dad or the police if anything bad happens. Probably have tracking apps on them as well.

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Sums up my feelings quite well. I'd be ashamed if I put GPS tracking on my kid 24/7. That's borderline psychotic, and at least highly invasive - not just when done to adults. Having a phone and being able to call a parent if needed is however a good thing that didn't exist when I was a kid. But the important bit is that it's the kid's own choice to make a call, and not be under 24/7 surveillance. Geez, how does anyone even begin to think that this is okay?

I mean I'd use it as a safety measure. I don't care who's house they're at or that kind of stuff, but if my child ever goes missing it'd be nice to at least pop up an app to see where their phone is at.

I think the problem is that people use it to track their kid's every move. I don't care if they go to a friend's house or the Library or somewhere. If they come home when they're supposed to or if they call me or answer their phone when they're late so I know they aren't dead, then I'm fine. I'd only use a tracking app in order to find them in an emergency, especially if they call me lost and need me to come get them but have zero clue where they are.

[Thimagryn]

Works in Japan so why not?

Sex offenders here get released back into the city with a public warning, so knowing that why would you want to take those risks with your own children?

Teach them that in a way that doesn't involve the police looking for your missing child because you wanted them to learn to be independant. I wouldn't even trust kids that age to go trick-or-treating without supervision, and I grew up doing that in this very city in the 80's. Times have changed dramatically, and I don't think it's smart to stick to a traditional 'I grew up that way' mentality in a vastly different environment. Wasn't too long ago where the dead body of a 13 yr old girl was found in a public city park. GPS tracking isn't going to prevent stuff like this from happening.

Japan is a whole different topic. Their culture is so conservative that people don't litter on the streets either, and everyone holds on to their garbage to throw away at home. Apples to Oranges in terms of safety and ethics, and incomparable to a city like Vancouver.

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Well yes.. because the world isn't any less safe than it was back then. It's probably significantly more safe what with the fact that cell phones have exploded in popularity. I didn't even have a cell phone until I was in the 7th grade but I was still going out to my friend's houses on bike in the 4th grade with no supervision and no cell phone.

I think that's the illusion of safety. The world isn't more safe, it's just more aware. More security guards in a school doesn't mean it's more safe than it was in a time where there wasn't a need for security guards at all. The times we grew up in riding bikes in the street without adult supervision are vastly different from the environments we live in now.

[Aeula]

I've never used public transportation. The idea alone sounds horrible.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The story plainly lays out what is going on. Are you denying the facts of the story? Do you have a better source?

Where in the story does it say there A taking his kids or any action or B that no where in Canada do kids ride on buses alone or they take your kids for raising the way you want.

You must be bloody daft, my mom couldn't get the government to take my sister when she was troubled with drugs and drinking and had jumped out of a moving car while high and my moms the one who called them. The government isn't interfering with how people raise there kids unless it's an extreme case.

[Themanintobuildafire]

I agree with a lot of posters that we are over protecting kids.

Perhaps my parents should have done more to make sure I wasn't going all over the place when I was a kid, but they were both working long days to put food on the table and a roof over my head.

I walked to school alone from Kindergarten. It was about a 15 minute walk to school when I was that young, and I did it from K-6. I got pissed at my babysitter when I was in either grade 3 or 4 and from that time on I was alone at home after school. I remember when I was in grade 6 I got a season pass to Canada's Wonderland. I lived in North York and would take the TTC to the Go Station with my buddy and we would Go Bus out to Wonderland every few days. We were like 11?

I learned how to use public transportation, read maps, schedules and how to manage money.

Different generation I guess...