FFS just get rid of Lolwell

[ComputerNerd]

In wotlk, healers had far too much sustainability and ability to keep a group topped off.
In cataclysm mana will be something you actually have to worry about running out of, so it will be the responsibility of each and every member of a raid to take some responsibility for their own actions.
You have to do what you can to make the healers job easier, and if that means you bothering to click the lightwell then so be it.
It does not need to be made into a healing stream totem. That is a poor excuse used by lazy players, the sort who won't use healthstones now, but complain when a healer doesn't get to them fast enough.
If you have the tool to save yourself, at the expense of one position on the meter then you can and should use it.

[Sy]

They need to change it to the one in ToC 5 man. Having automatically send heals to party members would be amazin

i suggest just reading at least the last few posts, before posting for yourself.

it wouldn't be "amazing". it would be boring. blizzard already said that they don't want any more smart heals, there are already enough of them in the game and holy priests have two very powerful ones.

and, like i said already, we do get a spell that can be placed at a specific location and heals all raid members nearby. it's called Power Word: Sanctuary. we don't need two of them.

[Krystal]

In wotlk, healers had far too much sustainability and ability to keep a group topped off.
In cataclysm mana will be something you actually have to worry about running out of, so it will be the responsibility of each and every member of a raid to take some responsibility for their own actions.
You have to do what you can to make the healers job easier, and if that means you bothering to click the lightwell then so be it.
It does not need to be made into a healing stream totem. That is a poor excuse used by lazy players, the sort who won't use healthstones now, but complain when a healer doesn't get to them fast enough.
If you have the tool to save yourself, at the expense of one position on the meter then you can and should use it.

Agreed 100%. I don't think things will change much though, honestly. There were so many situations in ICC where the healer can't get to a dps, but instead of snacking on their healthstone, they would just die. That's silly. Save yourself if the healer can't.

I've thought about making my priest my main healer in Cata, so I do hope that things change for the better with lightwell, but I'm not sure of what they could do except cater to lazy dps as others have said.

[Horrify]

My priest will never be anything but Shadow and I think they should just scrap Lightwell.

[ComputerNerd]

Lightwell, or at least the planned implementation will be fine.
Players are the issue, not the ability.

[Sackman]

Haha I actually now fully respect why the moderators banned chat about the "ToC Lightwell" my god, it also shows how little of the thread people read. I bet if people read more of the thread there would be much more constructive discussion.

I don't think this discussion can continue past the point it is currently at because people dont keep themselves up to date with the discussion, so I can see this being a too and throw between "hey DPS need to optimise! prioritise! its up to healers to keep the raid up!" and with people who respect the lightwell saying "its situational usefulness!"

[Sy]

Haha I actually now fully respect why the moderators banned chat about the "ToC Lightwell" my god, it also shows how little of the thread people read. I bet if people read more of the thread there would be much more constructive discussion.

yup. althought "more" probably would mean "at least something" in most cases here.

[Fenixdown]

Thank you for letting me know they hadn't implemented those changes yet in beta. I only recalled them speaking of the changes being implemented and presumed they had already done so.

Once those go into place, the next step is trying to re-educate the community. In vanilla, Lightwell was a very useful situational tool, most notably in BWL.

Let me give something as a piece of "advice". If you think for one second that Lightwell should be like the ToC version, YOU ARE A BAD HEALER. Period. "Fire and forget" spells are pointless, boring, and bland, and that's describing them in a nice way. On top of the fact that it would spend a portion of it's time wasted healing pets, it essentially makes the talent far too overpowered. Imagine something like that for PvP. Someone has to waste their time trying to kill a Lightwell with, say, 8k health while everyone else is beating the crap out of that person and they're getting free healing or free damage from it until it's dead.

The new changes will make Lightwell very good once you as priests start educating everyone else around you that, in fact, the spell isn't worthless and it won't "amg gimp mah deepz".

That's why Blizz wants you to actually spec into it and test it. However, what's the point of even fixing the spell if people are too stubborn to spec into it in the first place?

I want my talents to be fun and practical, as well as make me think about when and why I should use them. Given Blizzard's intent to make mana something you have to watch in Cataclysm, why would you NOT take Lightwell? If you go OOM and you didn't spec into it and the raid wipes, who's fault is it then? I'll give you a hint, it's yours. And that's no matter how it's designed.

[Icarris]

Players are the issue, not the ability.

This. My main is a holy priest, and Lightwell is a great utility, but JUST like GS, everyone's focused on the meters. It's sad really.

[Markluzz]

cool story bro.

[Tavek]

My opinion? If you want DPS to use Lightwell then grant them a very slight DPS boost when they use it. That way they'll be willing to grab that heal if it still means HURRR LOOK AT MAH DPS NUMBERS GUYZ.

[sicness]

You know this thread is in the cataclysm forum's correct? And no, the lightwell won't always be in perfect positioning every single time.
But hmmm say on saurfang, drop it on the boss done
marrowgar, use is for a bonestorm and drop it on the stack in the center point done,
LDW use it on the path melee would take from add's to LDW,
gunship (i don't know the range) but maybe drop it by the other ship's sorceror?
Rotface drop it along the kiter's path and it's a nice boost or on the boss,
festergut drop it in melee,
proffesor is really a fight where it's not very good as it involves lots of moving and unless you HAVE to go back everyone kinda spread's apart, but maybe on hc drop it down and the people passing the diesease can use for a small helpful heal.
Blood prince's again not so good too much changing,
BQL drop it in melee or before incite terror drop it on the opposite side of the room that you won't be able to reach as you spread out,
valithria (lol) drop it next to any aoe or over an abom's corpse (heals to combat any blood worms that might escape the tank).
Sindragosa drop it in melee, in the ranged group, or in air phase in the center of the ice block's. LK drop it in a group and no need to worry about infest at that group, or maybe on the path to center after phase.

Ta da there is 10/12 non hc, both 10 and 25m uses for lightwell that only rely on smart DPS.

I'm not saying my posts all over again. I do realize this is for cataclysm, but I'm using the current ability to show how it should be improved. Just because you CAN use it in those situations doesn't mean it's optimal and SHOULD be used in those situations.

Blizzard has even stated, they don't care if dumb people do or don't use the ability, they care if people who know how to use it use it. And currently people who know how to use it DON'T use it.

Healthstones are good and good players use them. If bad players continue to ignore Lightwell, we can live with that. If it becomes as useful as a Healthstone, perfect.

Also note that ignoring a Healthstone (or Lightwell) will be essentially like casting a mana drain on your healer, which is not the case today.

[xile]

^^ ignorant

And probably never played in Vanilla or TBC. Also, probably a bad DPS and someone I wouldn't take on my raids.

Your assumptions are bad seeing how i've probably been playing just as long as you if not longer. Point is if you're a dps you are going to expect heals you do your best to avoid the fire and all that jazz, but when it comes down to it, your job is to stay alive and do damage as fast as you possibly can. At the moment short of random oh shit moments the healers can very easily keep people alive if you have the iq level of an 8 year old and to boot the health pools allow you a second or two to move out of the fire (defile dont count blah blah all that). Don't make dumb assumptions because as a dps i expect my healers to heal me, their job is to do exactly that. I'm expected to produce high quality numbers while not killing myself, and they are supposed to heal through the routine damage that most fights have. Yes healing will be different, will lightwell be amazing in cata? probably not. Why? because the only reason you should ever pop a healthstone or anything (use a lightwell) is when it's an o shit i might actually die i'm not getting healed moment. We've all had this but if youre only getting hit for a 4th of your health ever couple minutes and you click that lightwell and get healed .2 seconds later it was wasted. They should remove it already.

As to everyone saying OMG lightwell is so good. AT the moment it's not in anyway you have to switch targets to use it, and to boot with current heals even if you do click it you can expect a heal incoming within the next second. It's a sad day when most people aren't willing to spend 1 talent point into this talent because it's lack of viability. Either give dps an incentive to use it, remove it, or make it an auto instant heal to people that get hit allowing it a few charges.

For the record, spending 5 seconds in the middle of your dps rotation to look for a light well and click it, sounds less than exciting and in the end all the healer does is press one button and not do anything else meaning the spell is next to nothing for them.

[lolterribads]

"Lightwell Feedback Needed
While any kind of feedback is helpful to a degree, we are much more interested in the feedback of players who have tried Lightwell in the most recent beta builds than those who just never cared for the talent. We are actively making changes to the spell to see how it plays, so it's important for us to know if the changes are noticeable and fun without that feedback getting buried under the cruft of bad reputation that Lightwell has built up over time. If it's still not cutting it, we're prepared to try something different, but we need a chance to see if that is in fact the case. (Source)"

The way I feel about this is so hard to put into words, but hell, I'll give it a shot.

Blizzard needs to stop with the Lightwell. I mean FFS did the dev that invented the concept sleep with the head dev, and if it cut the guy will tell on the head dev? I mean for freakin sakes Blizzard. Pushing the useless skill on Priests is alittle bit cheap and very annoying. Not one class has this "ability" and we all know DPS is wayyy to focused on DPSing than to have to click on something else, like Lolwell. God damn it, this kind of crap is annoying as shit. I don't understand the intent of them keeping it. If their main concern is to keep every class unique then, for god sakes, there are plenty more ideas out there than this shitty one. If their intent is to make DPS choose rather to live or die, then... they have grossly over estimated the intelligence of DPS out there. And for them to say "Dps will have to more warey about their HP because of Healers Mana concerns" is a fucking joke. Why in the hell are they giving us Life Grip if they think DPS are capable of actually moving away from damage?! Throughout this game they have never given a reason for DPS to be accountable for their actions in raid encounters, other than being in the right spot and the right time. And for those DPS that have been playing this for .. oh.. 4 years, they perhaps can get out of damage if needed, but never have been forced to. (Always room for exceptions)

So my conclusion: Stop asking us feedback for fucking Lightwell, it was and always will be a useless ass talent, and like now, if we didn't have to put a point in there, we NEVER would. And the fact that they're forcing it on us, like a fat guy hitting on a hot girl at a bar, is really sad, and disturbing.

I liked the bit where you go into an angry rage after blizz asks people to test the new version of the spell then provide feedback, and it is quite clear from the bubbling hatred you spewed out that you havent.

And for those DPS that have been playing this for .. oh.. 4 years, they perhaps can get out of damage if needed, but never have been forced to. (Always room for exceptions)

What? Never been forced to get out of damage, but there are exceptions? Kind of backflipping there. Besides there are a number of fights where DPS needs to stay out of damage if they want to live. Vanilla wow was a long time ago, and looking at your post it seems like you havent played much since then.

I'm not saying my posts all over again. I do realize this is for cataclysm, but I'm using the current ability to show how it should be improved.

Sure. If "I WULDNT WASTE NE POINTZ ON DIS TALENT QQ" is a suggestion on how lightwell could be better, then run up and tell blizz right away! I am sure they havent heard this one yet, and they might finally have something to work on

[Halicia]

My opinion? If you want DPS to use Lightwell then grant them a very slight DPS boost when they use it. That way they'll be willing to grab that heal if it still means HURRR LOOK AT MAH DPS NUMBERS GUYZ.

my issue is that, be it a little or a lot... adding a mechanic (lightwell) to a fight makes things slightly more complex.

and if the dps reduction (however slight) isnt an issue, why not just run with an extra healer and remove a 'optional' mechanic from the fight ?

(now if they want to design fights around the premise that lightwell ISNT optional, thats a world of difference... and contradicting 'bring the player not the class')

[sicness]

Sure. If "I WULDNT WASTE NE POINTZ ON DIS TALENT QQ" is a suggestion on how lightwell could be better, then run up and tell blizz right away! I am sure they havent heard this one yet, and they might finally have something to work on

Stop being an ass and read my previous posts. I've given several reasons why the talent is currently worthless in it's current form and that changes they're making are for the better.

[Ner zhul]

Why in the hell are they giving us Life Grip if they think DPS are capable of actually moving away from damage?!

why are pve'rs so ignorant of pvp usages?

u probably pissed that SWD does damage to u right?

PS: life grip has so many pve usages as well, and why not life grip the dps into ur lightwell?

[Marahdeka]

Wrong IMO.

Fact is, most priests out there have toyed with it, and indeed think it's a decent spell, but that's not the problem!
As has been stated a gazillion times on any place that discusses this subject, DPS never want to use it!

Anything that (*massive generalisation again*) requires interrupting their face rolling around on their keyboard is simply a no-go.
Why the hell would they click on it?? Healing is the priest's job, right? It might make their DPS meter lose a few numbers....etc.

I realise it shouldn't be like that; DPS should care more about keeping themselves alive, unfortunately though, it IS like that, and I can't see it changing any time soon, no matter how much awesomesauce GC pours in the Lightwell.

Now, like I said earlier, if it included a damage buff when clicked, you see how fast DPS classes change their minds!! lol

Imo, there are 3 types of dps-ers: the bad, the good and the smart ones. The last category includes that kitty who is aware that the OT just died and does a CRess, or a pally bubbling a healer who is about to die etc. If Blizz makes lightwell actually matter( mana efficient on caster side, decent range-maybe 10-15y-, no target switch on users side etc), these guys are gonna use the lightwell to help both the priest and themselves. Unfortunately, the majority of dpsers fall into the first two categories

Blizz stated that cata raiding will be more difficult than wotlk raiding, so hopefully we'll see some good dps-ers move into the third category, so we might see more lightwell users.

[redwitchy]

Fun story :

Was in Uldaman on a lowbie recently, we were at the indiana jones room. Someone managed to pull the entire freaking room...
Quick as a flash, the healer drops a lightwell, and dies almost straight away..
The only way that the tank and 2 dps remaining(other died also), was because we had the lightwell and man we clicked on it!
Quick thinking from that priest saved the group a wipe and an annoying run back xD

[Deleted]

Well my opinion is that lightwell as a spell has a designing fault in its core.

The point is that (and correct me if im wrong) its the only 'healing spell' that is not guaranteed to heal(or everheal) someone and once u use it u loose all controll over it.
U do not know who its going to heal or if its going heal when its needed at all.I havent played my priest since TBC but i believe that thats maybe one of the most important reasons priests dont use it , i mean it may as well make u god for 10 secs after u use it but if people dont click on it well u get my point.

The above is also the reason that testing it is hard also.Sure u can ask priest for combat logs,meters whatever.At the end of the day i think its the dps who have to judge it as well as the priests and that gets things really complicated.

Now as for the 'give it and aura' idea its not bad but wouldnt that make it a 'totem'?

Imo (and i dont know if anyone has suggested it.if so i apologise i didnt mean to 'steal' ur idea) the best solution would be to make it base line and add bonuses to to holy talents that will buff it.Like that it could become a signature-like spell for priest that wanna use it instead of just trying to force it to them.

ps: sorry for any mistakes i did english is not by first language.
ps2:as for the 'banned' toc lightwell idea....wellwe all know that when blizzard says never they mean '' never until we deside otherwise'' :P